Newby considering the options- Advice??

[spiritgide 0]

Hi, guys- Glad I found this place!

I'm going to install a video system for protection of a home/shop complex, primarily for burglar security. Two intrusions is three months has got my attention. Our police aren't very interested in field investigation, so if I basically catch them on video (and of course ask for their address and phone) perhaps I can get them arrested.

 

Being new at CCTV, I'm finding lots of claims, a huge spread of prices, and not enough facts! I'm looking for bullet-proof operation and longevity. I'm also trying to do this on a reasonable budget. Here's the application-

 

No more than eight cameras needed. Probably 4 or 5 of these would be outside, and at least 2 of those be IR style. Various distances and angles of view are needed, so I know I need to select each camera for the particular location. I'm in the central plains. We do have some ice and snow to contend with, but all cameras would be under a roof overhang and thus have some protection.

 

Camera Questions- Which camera brands should I look for- which ones should I avoid? Recommendations on the best weather-proof cameras? Good sources where one might find a variety of lens options? Best pricing?

 

 

The real question is what kind of system to put in. I have an existing network installed and want to be able to tie in to view from both house and shop office locations. From what I have found so far, the performance is going to depend on the platform (PC or server type, I can build either one myself), the DVR card system used, and the soft ware that runs it.

 

So, I'm looking for your recommendations on those items- primarily, whose card is best, whose software best for my application?

 

Any other things that a newby needs to know appreicated too. I try to do my homework, and it helps to ask those who have gone before!

 

Thanks

 

Don

Fighting Crime in the Land of Oz

[rory 0]

Hi, guys- Glad I found this place!

I'm going to install a video system for protection of a home/shop complex, primarily for burglar security. Two intrusions is three months has got my attention. Our police aren't very interested in field investigation, so if I basically catch them on video (and of course ask for their address and phone) perhaps I can get them arrested.

 

Being new at CCTV, I'm finding lots of claims, a huge spread of prices, and not enough facts! I'm looking for bullet-proof operation and longevity. I'm also trying to do this on a reasonable budget. Here's the application-

 

No more than eight cameras needed. Probably 4 or 5 of these would be outside, and at least 2 of those be IR style. Various distances and angles of view are needed, so I know I need to select each camera for the particular location. I'm in the central plains. We do have some ice and snow to contend with, but all cameras would be under a roof overhang and thus have some protection.

 

Camera Questions- Which camera brands should I look for- which ones should I avoid? Recommendations on the best weather-proof cameras? Good sources where one might find a variety of lens options? Best pricing?

 

 

The real question is what kind of system to put in. I have an existing network installed and want to be able to tie in to view from both house and shop office locations. From what I have found so far, the performance is going to depend on the platform (PC or server type, I can build either one myself), the DVR card system used, and the soft ware that runs it.

 

So, I'm looking for your recommendations on those items- primarily, whose card is best, whose software best for my application?

 

Any other things that a newby needs to know appreicated too. I try to do my homework, and it helps to ask those who have gone before!

 

Thanks

 

Don

Fighting Crime in the Land of Oz

 

Hi, Welcome.

 

Best weatherproof, corosion resistant and Infrared Cameras I have found, made by ExtremeCCTV.com. They arent cheap, but they work. I had other Infrared 'so called' cameras before but they didnt do the job. I then installed some day night IR EX82 cameras, cost is expensive, but they work ($1250 wholesale) They see 100' in pitch dark outside (150' tops). They are color/BW, the BW version isnt much cheaper, though there are 75' BW versions (50' outside) that ARE cheaper. If you need more info on them, some clips, let me know ill send you a link. I have the EX82 on the ocean side here in the Bahamas, no corrosion what so ever, work perfectly. Previous bullet cameras rusted away!

 

As for recording, id recommend GE Interligix simple to install, maintenance free, stable, STORESAFE DVR. Its stand alone. Pricing isnt cheap like a PCI card though. Depdning on how long you want to recrord for, the price will change. Base price wholesale is approx $2000 for the 10 channel 40 GB. They go up to 250GB. 8 cameras on a 40GB at 2.5pps will give you approx with motion 7 days in a 24 hour enviroment such as a gas station, so youd get more in a home enviroment, 250GB will give you appox 2 months recording at 2.5pps. If you lower the record speed, you get longer. Check out this link: http://www.bahamassecurity.com/ms/dvr/default.asp. Note, cat is not updated recent yet so pricing is lower, plus those prices are retail listed here in the bahams, more than the US.

 

For non Infared I would get some good BW High Res Traditional Digital Cameras, in weatherproof housings, Kalatel has a line called Cam Plus, and housings to go with them. Get an Auto Iris DC CS 3-12mm Lens, Fujinon sells them, or Tamron. Then you can adjust the lens upon installation.

 

Id go with BW if you are primarily concerned with night time, if you have a couple extra dollars, you can get a Day Night (color switches to BW at night), normally about $100 more each camera. A low light color camera can work also, if there is some lighting, but you loose video quality in low light, though you will see colors of cars, shirts, etc, unlike with BW or Day Night. Standard color camera will not see much of anything in low light.

 

For indoor, a traditional high res Color digital camera will give you the best picture, but a mini dome will be more discreet and less need to clean the lens, only the dome cover rarely, i have had some domes in for over a year and they have no dust yet nor need cleaning, indoors. Kalatel also has some for this if you want, or any other high res is nice. To save money you could get a standard res for indoor, but outdoor id recommend high res.

 

Let us know if you need more info, ask some more questions, some others will reply with recommendations also. They are all good, take a lookaround and pick something that fits your budget.

 

Once again i have recommended the NON PC based system, much easier to set up and maintain. But thats up to you and your budget. These Kalatel DVRs can connect to the LAN (or phone) and you can watch live and recorded video remotely over the WAN or LAN, and you can use a router as i recently just did with a couple. I Have some images if you want to see them for review (PM me on that)

 

Ofcourse if your budget is really tight, you could always install BW Bullet cameras all around, add a couple IR LEDs where you want to see in the pitch dark (extreme CCTV or whizkid has some LEDs only that are not too expensive). The BW Bullets range from $90-150 Wholesale, each. IR LEds will depend but may be somewhere in the $300 each range. Then you could just use a PCI card which will also save on cost. I dont sell or install them butsomeone else here can help you if thats the way you want to go.

 

Good luck, and have fun, thats what it is all about to me. Coming over from computer work and alarm work for years, CCTV is actually fun, compared to the rest, especially when it is used remotely over the internet

 

Rory

Edited October 6, 2005 by Guest

[cctv_down_under 0]

As Rory has mentioned above, Extreme CCTV make some amazingly robust cameras, where are you located I am in Australia, it says you are from the land of Oz, does that mean Australia?

 

As for Extreme's range, they are great but not cheap, it would be more cost effective to just mount the camera in an environmental housing, you can mount them in a heated one if you are concerned about the snow, hell you can even get them with wipers on the front and they arent all that expensive either, If you use the right housing then you can have any camera in there you like.

 

Snow = Glare therefore a bullet camera wont cut it for you (No Auto Iris), In all seriousness, the word quality and robust does not go with the word cheap! Simply put: if you want it to last dont buy cheap gear, there are a lot of products claiming low light but most high res chips in Colour cant handle it unless you pay the money for a DSP Digital Wide Dynamic Camera (which mind you I would strongly suggest) I sell these for around $650 Australian and if you go for a varifocal lens then it wont matter too much where you put the camera.

 

One thing to note will be your white balance settings, if you have snow then there will be a lot of light reflection and a lot of scene whiting, you may get away with a Day/Night camera but If you can afford it go for a Wide Dynamic Cam.

 

I know I will draw some flack for this comment but: IR does not really work, unless you pay big bucks, it is hardly justified and will only work for B/W and small areas, you would be better off with the Day Night cam.

 

PC based systems are by far the best for networked operations and allow for easy upgrades and I highly recommend them, however if you cant use computers much or want more stability a standalone device will serve you well.

 

IP67 rated cameras can be hosed down without need of a housing and you can get some from Ganz that have low temperature ratings and Varifocal Built in Lenses.

 

You should be looking at around $550-$600AUS for a Day/ night option, fully kitted with lens and heated Housing and around $850-$900 for a Japanese wide Dynamic with the same options.

 

The best suggestion I can make is only buy Korean or Japanese, stick to sony chips and only use PCI cards if you know computers.

 

Geovision makes the best of the PCI cards that I have seen.

 

Hope this helped.

[qman 0]

Damm, I get COLOR/BW 24IR bullet cameras for $69 each US>.

[rory 0]

As Rory has mentioned above, Extreme CCTV make some amazingly robust cameras, where are you located I am in Australia, it says you are from the land of Oz, does that mean Australia?

 

As for Extreme's range, they are great but not cheap, it would be more cost effective to just mount the camera in an environmental housing, you can mount them in a heated one if you are concerned about the snow, hell you can even get them with wipers on the front and they arent all that expensive either, If you use the right housing then you can have any camera in there you like.

 

Snow = Glare therefore a bullet camera wont cut it for you (No Auto Iris), In all seriousness, the word quality and robust does not go with the word cheap! Simply put: if you want it to last dont buy cheap gear, there are a lot of products claiming low light but most high res chips in Colour cant handle it unless you pay the money for a DSP Digital Wide Dynamic Camera (which mind you I would strongly suggest) I sell these for around $650 Australian and if you go for a varifocal lens then it wont matter too much where you put the camera.

 

One thing to note will be your white balance settings, if you have snow then there will be a lot of light reflection and a lot of scene whiting, you may get away with a Day/Night camera but If you can afford it go for a Wide Dynamic Cam.

 

I know I will draw some flack for this comment but: IR does not really work, unless you pay big bucks, it is hardly justified and will only work for B/W and small areas, you would be better off with the Day Night cam.

 

PC based systems are by far the best for networked operations and allow for easy upgrades and I highly recommend them, however if you cant use computers much or want more stability a standalone device will serve you well.

 

IP67 rated cameras can be hosed down without need of a housing and you can get some from Ganz that have low temperature ratings and Varifocal Built in Lenses.

 

You should be looking at around $550-$600AUS for a Day/ night option, fully kitted with lens and heated Housing and around $850-$900 for a Japanese wide Dynamic with the same options.

 

The best suggestion I can make is only buy Korean or Japanese, stick to sony chips and only use PCI cards if you know computers.

 

Geovision makes the best of the PCI cards that I have seen.

 

Hope this helped.

 

In the IR area, ive installed the extreme IR products, and they really do work But yes, they are expensive, and wear some shades when you install / test them at night! But only use IR if you really have to.

 

The IR bullet cameras, normally have 6-24 IRs, dont really work, at least outside. Tehy barely give you 15 feet of LED and its limited. With the Extreme LED products, you can see objects defined out to 100+ feet.

 

Not the best pic, as it was taken with Flash on from a digital camera, but it can give you an idea. Using IR lighting is nothing like using yard lights though as the yard lights will give you a much better image, no matter how much IR Light you have, as IR light can give off alot of glare on certain objects. Image shown below is actually 100' pool area in pitch dark, using Extreme CCTV's Ex82 ($1250) day night camera with LEDs. I also installed a day night sanyo camera in a regular housing, with 2 Extreme UF500 Infrared LEDs, amazing image in pitch dark (dont have a picure of that yet, none are online yet).

Edited June 29, 2004 by Guest

[rory 0]

Damm, I get COLOR/BW 24IR bullet cameras for $69 each US>.

 

That is cheap, but either way, its not the type of Infrared you get with ExtremeCCTV products. Ive used the IR bullets from Provideo, a litle more expensive than $69, and they dont see very far, if any, outdoors in pitch dark. I would never use them again for Infared Applications.

[cctv_down_under 0]

I can get em even cheaper but who would, you need a proper array if they are to work for more than 10 Mtrs and then they are so obvious, I am with Rory all the way Extreme make the best ones I have seen, however you can buy very lowlight cameras and cheap yard lights that would be much cheaper and less obvious.

[rory 0]

I can get em even cheaper but who would, you need a proper array if they are to work for more than 10 Mtrs and then they are so obvious, I am with Rory all the way Extreme make the best ones I have seen, however you can buy very lowlight cameras and cheap yard lights that would be much cheaper and less obvious.

 

yep, yard lights are better, for security also. I tell you one thing, doubt id ever sell the UF500 leds again, way to0 much over kill, they give out IR from 400 feet and more, you can feel the heat standing 15 feet in front of them, and can feel the light on your eyes anywhere within 20-30 feet, but thats the high end LED Bulb, not their 150' Leds which you dont feel anything from.

[rory 0]

reminds me of a local electronics company here, that sell some cheap cameras, i told them a price of one of my cameras, and they say they sell theirs for a 1/3rd of the price....but, there is a huge difference between the 2 cameras, mine work and give a great image, whereas they have not even tested theirs yet to see what kind of image it gives, they are only using it inside a shop lights on day and night, and outside the shop in full street lighting! Plus, they only sell 3 cameras, BW, Color, Color w/IR ... quads w/ monitors and VCRs!

 

I could also buy a camera from eclipse cctv for 1/2 the price of theirs also, but it isnt any good!

[cctv_down_under 0]

This is why i want to make a consumers guide, so much garb out there, how would the consumer know the difference.. you truley get what you pay for in CCTV.