timmcallister 0 Posted October 12, 2004 I am building a recording studio with a few seperated rooms, and for a variety of reasons, putting in windows isn't an option. I have smaller rooms (12x12), (15x20) and (23x25). I don't need to watch the entire room(s), just a reasonable section of it. The rooms are "moderately" lit, with a few lamps in the corners and ceiling lights. Due to it being a "studio" people do like the lights subdued somewhat. I have some tvs to plug the cameras into (19" and 21"). I went down to our local variety store and found some slyvania color video cameras (SY1022). I also picked up the color cameras from Radio Shack to compare them both. Both were around $80. I found the Sylvanias to be pretty lousy looking. Grainy, grainy and a little more grain. To get anywhere near acceptable video, I have to carefully position the camera and the lights, and I got to keep all the lights on (and bring in a few extra lamps to really do it). Even with all this, the image isn't as good as the radio shack camera. The Rat Shack cameras did better in the "studio" light. Decent color, and they seemed more forgiving with the inconsistent lighting throughout the room. Maybe good enough for my needs. But I didn't like the funny fish eye lens that distorted peoples bodies (not acceptable for my purposes). This "fish eye lens" distortion was not a problem with the sylvanias. I sure would appreciate any recommendatios anyone of you folks might have. Remember my needs: moderate light, no fish eye lenses, cheap. THANKS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted October 12, 2004 Hi Well, when you are talking CCTV:: #1 forget about Radio Shack/KMart cameras. #2 For low light apps you need Black & White cameras, or Day/Night, but since you mention cheap then your best bet would be Black & White only. Questions:: Do you intend to record these? How many cameras do you think you need? (How many rooms) Do you want Discreet Cameras? (like mini domes) Do you want Hidden Cameras? (like smoke detectors, motion detectors) Do You want Vandal Resistant Cameras? Do you want cameras that will put off Infrared Light that see in pitch dark? Where will these cameras be viewed from? (TV, Office, Remote?) Do you need Remote Video? If you do need Remote Video, do you have broadband, or Telephone? Do you have a budget? Rory Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmcallister 0 Posted October 12, 2004 Questions:: Do you intend to record these? Do you want Discreet Cameras? (like mini domes) Do you want Hidden Cameras? (like smoke detectors, motion detectors) Do You want Vandal Resistant Cameras? Do you want cameras that will put off Infrared Light that see in pitch dark? Do you need Remote Video? If you do need Remote Video, do you have broadband, or Telephone? Nope. nada. no. Questions:: How many cameras do you think you need? (How many rooms) Where will these cameras be viewed from? (TV, Office, Remote?) Do you have a budget? Start with 2 cameras. Cameras will be used for "visual communication" So essentially, I'll put a camera and a TV in each room. I'll mount the cameras directly above the TVs so people in the different rooms will "look at each other" when talking. I am in essence using the camera/tv combinations as a replacement to the window you would typically have between rooms. This is a recording studio. By the way, we have a high quality cue system for audio already set up, so the cameras don't need any audio capability. Well, like i said, I am happy with different attributes of these two different cameras i have now at $80/each. I hope I can get a camera that will marry the positive attributes of these two cheap ones, and provide extra value and quality, for under $150. Is that realistic? HiWell, when you are talking CCTV:: #1 forget about Radio Shack/KMart cameras. #2 For low light apps you need Black & White cameras, or Day/Night, but since you mention cheap then your best bet would be Black & White only. Rory I hope I can stay with color, but i have read on this board that B/W will perform better in low light. THANKS! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted October 12, 2004 Ok, well ones I have used: on the low end: Provideo: ======= BULLETS:: Exview Color. depends on lighting, but it is a low light color camera. Bullet Camera (tested) http://www.spytown.com/provcvc637ex.html Dome Camera (not testd yet) http://www.spytown.com/provcvc724ex.html DAY NIGHT BULLET (not tested but specs are great) http://www.spytown.com/spcvcodaweca.html B/W with IR BULLET, good quality in low light nightclub applications: Bullet Camera (tested and if you need real life images PM me) http://www.spytown.com/cvc-325wps.html DOMES:: Dome Camera without Infrared (havent tested any of their BW Domes yet) http://www.spytown.com/cvc-385tp.html ALL Provideo DOMES: http://www.spytown.com/search--by-part-number-speco-technologies--dome-cameras.html NOTE: Their cameras under $100 are not really worth it, I have used them, and they are not that clear a picture, will probably be the same as the Radio Shack ones, stick with the ones over $100 ea and you will have a good clear camera - just FYI from my experience. If I were you unless you need vandal resistant Id look at the 2 Bullet cameras I mentioned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted October 12, 2004 I hope I can stay with color, but i have read on this board that B/W will perform better in low light. Well from extensive testing of various high end brands of low light Color cameras in a night club situation, yes, Black & White will outperform any low light or regular color camera. The owner stuck with the B/W cameras in all instances for better clarity. But, they were not the cheapest BW cameras. they were the B/W IR Bullets CVC-325 from Provideo listed on Spytown. They have cheaper CVC-130R but those are not as crisp an image, they are half the price but trust me, I just installed a bunch of them and they dont compare. The cheaper ones are just like any brand of cheap ones you find on the web. Rory Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cooperman 0 Posted October 12, 2004 hi timmcallister, Apart from Rory's comments on various cameras (most of which are not available on this side of the pond), you mentioned you would like to use colour if possible. Whilst light levels in recording studios are generally subdued, you still need enough light to be able to see what you're doing, so I can't see any reason why you shouldn't have your wish. If you choose a half decent low light (preferably 460 lines+ resolution) 1/3" CCD camera (conventional case), you can set it to Electronic Iris, and fit a wide or preferably ultra wide Manual Iris lens. Using a quality 2.8mm optic, the whole of the square studio will be on screen if the camera is mounted in one corner at around 7 feet frm the floor. Whilst you said you don't actually need that much coverage, their is a good reason for looking at this type of lens. With an ultra wide, the depth of field is so large, that even at maximum aperture, the whole of the room will be in focus. Lighting permitting, if you can manually close the iris one or possibly two f stops, this will further increase the image clarity (ideally you want to try and exclude lights from the camera view). It shouldn't be a problem taking in more of the room, particularly as you are intending to use decent size TV screens. If the monitors were smaller, I'd suggest a narrower lens. From previous postings on other subjects, I would guess that you could get something half decent within your budget. Also if you need to change the camera set ups in the future, it's relatively easy to buy a new lens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmcallister 0 Posted October 12, 2004 If you choose a half decent low light (preferably 460 lines+ resolution) 1/3" CCD camera (conventional case), you can set it to Electronic Iris, and fit a wide or preferably ultra wide Manual Iris lens. Using a quality 2.8mm optic, the whole of the square studio will be on screen if the camera is mounted in one corner at around 7 feet frm the floor. Whilst you said you don't actually need that much coverage, their is a good reason for looking at this type of lens. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. My only concern with wide angle lenses is body distortion. Can I get wide lenses that won't distort the image? Also - I have hung the "cheap" cameras I currently have at about 6 1/2 feet high, and have the top of the TV monitor at about 6 feet, just below the camera. This gives some sense of "looking at each other" when communicating. would this rule out the Dome cameras? I've only seen these mounted on ceilings, and that would not be the "correct mood". Thanks for the details and info! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cooperman 0 Posted October 12, 2004 You only tend to notice the distortions with wider lenses, when an object is placed close to the camera. In practice, you're more likely to get some distortions from the TV itself. CRT (Cathode Ray Tube ) linearity can be very variable, but on many TV's their is some distortion present which you just don't really notice (if you point a camera at a scene with vertical and horizontal lines in the view, you'd be amazed at what actually appears on screen). Just a suggestion, but whatever camera you do eventually fit, maybe place it to the side of the TV (or possibly below), then it won't be affected by the heat rising. You could use a 'dome' camera on the wall, but apart from being more restricted on lens choice, many domes use basic board cameras inside, and unless you buy a really good one, the camera / lens combination may not provide the quality of picture you're looking for. Also, if musicians are smoking (is this possible ) over a period of time, the domes plastic cover will begin to suffer. Ideally, you need to have a demo from a local supplier ... unless of course you happen to be passing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted October 12, 2004 (edited) With Professional Cameras (Box/Traditional Type) when using a wide angle lens you get better clarity then you would using a wide angle on a board type camera such as a bullet or dome. Exview Color Profesional Camera http://www.spytown.com/ktc-840ce.html B/W Profesional Camera http://www.spytown.com/ktc-515.html http://www.spytown.com/ktc-540e.html Lens http://www.spytown.com/ktl-2-5-10vm.html Edited October 6, 2005 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmcallister 0 Posted October 12, 2004 Ideally, you need to have a demo from a local supplier ... unless of course you happen to be passing i was in the UK early August. I recall it being quite hot and no ice anywhere i do love your country though, Thanks guys! Lots of good ideas and I feel substantially more eductaed to options. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cooperman 0 Posted October 13, 2004 i was in the UK early August What a coincidence, so was I Rory is spot on about the quality issues with some ultra wide 'board' camera lenses. That said, if you really don't want to go that wide (2.8mm is about 92 degrees coverage horizontal), try using a 1/2" format 3.7mm lens - still an ultra wide, but not quite as much. Bigger people on screen, better optical quality, but perhaps a few bucks more. Hope it works out ok. Maybe let us know how you get on. Cooperman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
