PMA

Thank you guys. Was actually checking right now I-catcher. Guess I have 3 to test ... thanks After I tested the 3 ... I will write some comments about them... might help other members.

lololol is that real lolololol Made me think twice well 3 times but not more than that, Funny I noticed that the card is exactly like the Tibet I said earlier in this post (both from taiwan????), photocopies or clones with conexant chip. The box looks different doe

Ok my pleasure. For that last camera that's not working you can try to add the last pair into the equation... and it might work. Also add the green pair. (+) twist together the orange pair (orange and orange white) and add the green wire from the green pair. (-) Twist together the brown pair (brown and brown white) and add the green white wire from the green pair. You may have a surprise, don't forget to connect them in the power supply.

Well I was expecting some participation from other members. Beside the smart, intelligent, constructive remark from this member that didn't happen. So from my part I call it closed. And if you care to continue talking about this you can PM me.

"Which camera, the OEM $50 bullet camera?" great OEM camera, nothing like the Republic of China, sure much better than d-link or linksys... what was I thinking!!! sorry about that "InCorrect:" Also sorry , about the d-link res your link cleary shows a diferent camera from mine... your link is pointing at DCS 2000 and my camera refence is the DCS-3220 with 704x480 sold in amazon for 300 dollars with exterior housing h t t p : / / w w w . dlink c o m/products/resource.asp?pid=350&rid=1250&sec=0 "You would need multiple Systems but we are not discussing that here" Yes, let's not discuss multiple analog systems €€€€€€ and expansion capabilities. "check out the GeoVision GV250" I guess GeoVison, if not OEM should be really good dvr cards, but unfortunately I'm not interested in buying or recommending any dvr systems. I leave that part of the business to you, you can give me the Ip part . "Im not in the USA, but in ghetto communities anywhere in the world" Really sorry about that, guess in ghettos in USA there is no internet connection, or networks, just good quality dvrs from PRP? Can you actually sell anything there, analog even? "First, we are not talking about Wireless" No, I guess we are talking just about the points that interest you.... right guess ghettos????!!!!!! don't have linkys or wireless, just PRC quallity stuff. "Ofcourse I know Linksys" extract from linksys website ... Unlike standard "web cams" that require an attached PC, the Internet Home Monitoring Camera contains its own web server, so it can connect directly to a network, either over Wireless-G (802.11g) networking, or over 10/100 Ethernet cable. Choose either MPEG-4 or Motion JPEG video compression for a high-quality, high-framerate, up to 640x480 video stream. "First, we are not talking about Wireless" yes let's not talk about that, guess your OEM does that to... zzzz guess linksys is not a good brand, or suitable for ghettos?!?!?!?! just OEM PRP... "Also if you check out the reviews of this camera on lets say, New Egg" quality degraded when compared to what??? guess another Ip cam and not an OEM analog cam. newegg website review Decent Wireless Camera for $100 Reviewed By: elmusa on 2/19/2006 Rating + 3Rating + 3Rating + 3Rating + 3Rating + 3 Tech Level: high - Ownership: 1 day to 1 week Pros: Simple setup; support for 128-bit WEP, fairly fast through the web interface, no antenna to deal with Cons: Big and Bulky; Video quality is just ""OK""; uses .asf files for video encoding "2 - Please forget Remote Video, I did not ask that, home users like to watch it right at home on their TV " yes let's forget about the remote view too guess that OEM does it better ... Don't agree, users like to watch their house or office or store remotely through WAN... that comment is outdated 5 to 6 years. "3 - None of the cameras you suggested have BNC." none of the cameras you suggested remarkably resemble the capabilities of any Ip camera, except for the res .... maybe "Ok then" Ip cameras can be bought with IR ... I guess your OEM cam comes with it?! "1-Tibet? Never heard of it. " Sorry guess this taiwan brand doesn't reach there, well they actually have a website.... can send you an email with it "3-I build my own servers. " What is the definition of server to you? Is that computer running win2003, linux, with quad processor with 4gb ram, external scsi on raid 0,1,5,10 with blade system thought optical cable? Or more or less domestic computer with a PCI dvr card? "Please, HOME USER,HOME USER, HOME USER" sure, let's not talk about that and forget the companies is that a ghetto thing to ?!?!?!?! "I actually dont need any DVR Card, I can just plug it into the TV! Smile" Can also do that and have remote view , forgot.... no remote view allowed "If they run out of cameras, then they can simply add another card" Yes, if the first one is stakable let's keep on adding cards, €€€€€€€ don't forget that you only have 2 or 3 PCI slots nowadays inside the computer you better count very well your cameras "There is not such thing as ANALOG SYSTEM" Back in the 80's most of analog was recorded in VHS, Betamax, etc. you should read the comments the technicians said back then about having then recorded in hard drives ... almost like this interesting discussion now "the Limitations of IP systems are very clear" Sure, they are but they are much smaller than your average anolog system. "you also need computer for your IP camera, and you need a network" Yes in a normal setup, sure like you need a computer with dvr card and and a bunch of straight coax cables to your dvr But if I want I can plug an Ip camera directly to a modem or tv and I can remotely view it. And I will give another surprise now... some Ip cameras you don't even need to own a computer to do the recording, you can configure the firmware in order to have it connected through the internet into a 3 party server who will do the recording for you though h t t p or f t p. Is that the future or what... no more problems about having someone stealing your dvr pc with the recordings, no more problems about hard drive space... but I guess analog cams do the same "You need to install a network" No, the network is usually already there to begin with, you just need to plug the cameras into the network ... Like you need to run coax I guess coax is also easier to install when compared to cat5 right? "So you say you use cheap Network switches" Yes, like a 8 door 1giga linksys switch, costs €40 in a network a switch is the most reliable, easy, stupid, transparent part.... to put it in BNC terms, like a BNC T "No idea what you mean" Don't you have to install coax cable from the cam to the dvr ?????? or are those analog cam wireless "networking is so simple, kids are out there installing and maintaining networks" So network is not a problem now ????!!!! it was a moment ago they don't exist in ghettos ?!?!?!?! "These days you will find most CCTV techs know networking INSIDE AND OUT" hardly, with a few exceptions with any professional or university degree level and expertise... but then again they might think they have. Have 2 analog guys in my company, 40 and 55... no knowledge what so ever, unfortunately. Not even going to start talking about heavy duty rack servers and big company server rooms... like banks "free IP software out there and they are rubbish" Send an email and tell that to, for example: AXIS Camera Station One A software solution for the simultaneous viewing and recording of high-quality MPEG-4 and Motion JPEG video from a single surveillance camera Besides how many software's can you install to run your favourite dvr card with working and stable drivers? "Real DVR System" Ok, guess it's not OEM, guess we can talk about that ? How much would that cost, let's say dvr card for only 32 cams with soft included "But right now I feel like I am still talking to a wall. " You sure are I like facts and try to give you that (like specs, websites, prices, etc) .... you give me a lot of talk, and sci-fi fiction from the 70's (joke) but not many real facts, mainly fiction p.s PRP means People Republic of China

No, no taking it to the heart, hope you don't to. Besides I respect your opinion and you probably have bunch more more years of experience than me, and I'm not the type of forcing people to believe as I do... just don't be stuck to values and technologies that are outdated when compared to an emerging technology. The fact is, like or not, this is the future, one system will get stronger one will get weaker. 3 years ago Ip had a maybe 20% share of market when compared to analog, now depending country to country it may have 40 to 60% of share, and it's going to increase a lot more. I'm happy to say that I'm in a country where big companies take security very seriously, and they buy high end Megap Ip systems, the share here is probably 50% 50% but the high ends systems are all going Ip , so I have nothing to complain about. About your camera, please provide full specs and manufacturer country and webpage, and the final price in any major retail store J. I will comment about it after I read it‘s full specs, and see the availability of the camera in the market. About the d-link camera J guess you didn‘t read the camera full specs... video resolution up to 704x480 so, I guess this camera actually outperforms yours J. But you are right, it‘s a cheap one like yours. I know geovison is a really nice dvr card, but let‘s see if I want to install 65 cameras J how many cards would I need and how much would I have to spend. „A CCTV camera itself does not, but you don't need it unless you want to record. The software comes with the card, whether it is a 2 channel or a 32 channel or a 64 channel card, same software. You can just plug that Camera into the TV, in fact you can use an existing VCR if you have one collecting dust somewhere. Or just get a budget DVR card from a good name brand, and you are good to go. „ The fact is, that it doesn‘t and you need to buy a dvr card. Budget DVR card from good brand... don‘t know what that is, it goes against what you say about quality systems. Please provide those facts, brand, website, availability, final price for the consumer? „Once again, you don't need it unless you need Remote Video. In that case yes you need either a DVR card or a Video Server. In fact a Video Server and the CCTV camera could come out to be cheaper depending on the model, actually who needs that, I can buy a Stand Alone DVR with Network for $100 these days. The CCTV camera will „work regardless of computer or network anyway, it just works, it will not crash, needs no firmware, no bugs to work out and we are using RG59 Coax instead of flimsy cat5 (well that's a cable topic for another day). I don‘t know about the U.S.A, but here 60 to 90% of costumers do remote view, it‘s basic, standard security option. So you need an extra 100 dollars to buy something cheap because an Axis good quality Ip matrix cost more than 500 dollars. Yes cables....lol. and coax, we can discuss that in another area and day J stopped being used in networking in the 80‘s ... bus networks with terminations J "Best to stick with the Axis, that Linksys one is very low res. " The linksys is one excellent brand that belongs to Cisco (don't know if you know it?), linksys as probably one of the best wireless systems around res 640x480... not very far from your camera How much do you have to paid for a wireless analog camera ? "Ok so first you need a PC (many home users just want to view the camera on their TV to see who is outside, no recording even in many cases, so being restricted in needing the PC is going to be a pain), then from there you have to run another wire from the Video out on the graphics card (if the PC even has one, as many just have on board video, otherwise you will need to buy an additional card for that which TV out), which is typically S-Video, so you then need an S-Video to RCA converter (some $20 for that) then run that out to the TV .. lots of work IMO. Sure though, anything is possible. " That's a really complicated setup for something really simple ... if they just want to see without pc, it's very easy, many Ip cameras come with bnc plug, besides the client may even watch what is going on remotely even without the pc, they just need internet connection. Can you do that with analog? "Cheap CCTV camera with IR, Hmmm .. $35. BW Cameras that can see in little to no light and still great quality, $50. If you would like snapshots, let me know, I have many " Lol ... no miracles there same for Ip... it's a question of sensor almost all advertise low light conditions operational. "I have tested tons of them. I don't use them in the field as none have what I need. In fact the only place I see them useful is for MegaPixel, but that is not the topic of this discussion and I would not use Axis or D-Link for that. I would like to know more about the actual brand of DVRs you have used also, to make this whole discussion valid. Saying they had a Conexant chip doesn't tell us anything, there are many generic cards with those and no software to run them, or whatever 3rd party software that is recommended for them - in no way does that type of software compare to a professional DVR software app - eg. GeoVision, Video Insight, etc. In the case of the Geo you can get the GV250 or GV600 for little cost and you still get the full featured Geo software included. „ Brand of Dvr? mainly Tibet, comes with software... You don't like Axis?, it's one of the world biggest supplier of network cams medium res and Megap and related equipment. Really nice stuff and user friendly. So tell me what would you use for megap cams? By the way, what type of servers do you use for your Ip installations? „Price is still much higher, not as much as in the past, but the quality to price ratio is still significant, not to mention requiring a network to run it, which in itself brings new issues into the equation. „ Price is not much higher, 99% of companies already have networks running (no cost). Your camera actually cost 50 dollars plus the dvr card to make your system run. „So you buy the card you require. If you are a pro in the industry you will have some idea of how many cameras you will require or how many you think you may add in the future, thats all part of the quotation, and specking the system out properly. Add another card if needed, or just use a couple StandAlone DVRs. And thats only if you want to record it, otherwise just plug them into your TV or a cheap quad or mux. „ Techinicians may be excellent professionals and make really good and futuristic calculations, but clients are money concerned, so like you know, they tend to go for the cheapest solution, and in a dvr card system it means that if they want 3 cams they will go for 4 inputs cards and not 8, 16 or 32. And what happens frequently in the future is that they want to expand the system without major costs ... And the funny thing is that, many clients usually just buy an IP matrix for those analog cams and get new Ip system with the old analog incorporated. „There are many limitations with IP based Surveillance systems and it has been talked about already on the forum. Requires a Network for starters, to view the cameras you require a Computer, and a search will bring up the threads with all the other issues related to those, and also those related to CCTV systems, DVRs, cameras, etc. Nothing is without limitations and nothing is future proof - nothing is 100%. „ Agree, there‘s no system 100% safe, or perfect. But the way I see it and the market is saying, it's the analog system that as much more limitations "by nature" itself can't even compare. I can run a Ip camera without network just need to plug it into a modem and I can remotely access it can you do the same with analog? „$50 CCTV camera, $100 DVR card, got full featured software and a great image, no network issues unless you really need remote video. 510x492 Image Pixels or pay an extra $30 for the 811x508 Pixels. Plug and play, use a BNC T Connector with a cheap BNC-RCA Adaptor and plug it into your TV - its a done deal and its cheap. “ 300 dollars for exterior, 80 for interior (computer, you also need a computer for you dvr card) better resolution, remote view, POE, expansion to many cameras without problems and limitations, plug and play, cheap Cat5 and the possibility of running power throught it, really cheap rj45 plugs. Cheap and future proof. „Dont get me wrong, if there was something out there worth using, I would, I am sure many of the pros would, It just isn't there quite yet, at least not on the cheap. Either way there will always be the network requirement, and unfortunately with cheap applications (eg. the Ghetto) many clients will never have that. „ There‘s plenty out there, and there much more in the near future. Lol about the network requirements, I don‘t understand what you mean by that... don‘t you need coax for your cams? And run the coax to the dvr card inside the Pc? Network is the same... cams, cat5, switch, pc. So the only difference would be a switch that is, cheap, plug and play doesn‘t require any configs ... don't you also need to implement a sort of coax bus network until your dvr card? Honestly and to tell you the truth, I think the real issue is related to the technicians. Much of the fuzz is simply because many cctv technicians have no knowledge of networking, Ip configs, servers, etc. which I'm really sorry about, many times they just say bad things about the Ip systems because they can't understand it or adapt to it, it's more or less a psychological denial of what is obvious and is going to happen. Because in the hardware part the systems are almost the same (cam, cable, Pc) the only difference is the knowledge to make them run ... Please, by saying this, don't take me wrong because I'm not actually referring to you. But you know it's the truth. „To end, I'm not even endorsing the cheap budget CCTV cameras, I would recommend getting something better, for a bit more, but one can only buy what they can afford (I would love to have Extreme CCTV cameras all over my place here but ..). There are high res versions and even the real pro cameras, you get what you pay for, same with the IP cameras. If you want a Webcam or Cheap Bullet camera then that is what you will pay for. And Regardless of the camera, software is still key. Also for additional clarity on this topic, I am not discussing MegaPixel Cameras!! “ Right there, agree 100% with you, either analog or Ip, we should only endorse good quality equipment and that is usually very expensive. But costumers have a mind of their own and many want cheap. Software, there‘s always room for improvements in either systems, you say that yours is free and it‘s good (it better be good because it‘s probably the only one that will run with the dvr card , Ip it‘s free too, usually comes with the camera, but I can install manyyyy others without dvr card driver issues from free to cheap to extremely professional and expensive, many more will come in the near future. Please, once again, don't take my words wrong. Just discussion diferent views and opinions.

"Post subject: You don't need a dvr card ... just a network card Install an Ip system... with network cameras" That is what I recommended at the top of the post. The webcam was just to compare the image with yours Ok, about the Ip system Ip Camera Outdoor Enclosure Thermal BARRIERdsc45 Securicam Internet Camera Outdoor Enclosure DCS-45 provides a cost-effective solution for protecting your Internet Camera from the rigors of outdoor use. The fixed-type enclosures include heavy duty, angle-adjustable mounting bracket that can be used to secure the camera on a vertical or horizontal surface. Maximize the full potential of your Internet Cameras to secure and protect your business. The DCS-45 includes a thermal barrier design to withstand temperature fluctuations and a flip open top for easy installation. DCS-3220/2000 Ip camera • Listen and Talk with 2-Way Audio1 • 4x Digital Zoom2 for Close-up Viewing • Built-in Motion Detection Remote Management •Configuration can be accessed via Web browser Networking Protocol •TCP/IP, H T T P, S M T P, F T P, Telnet, NTP, DNS, DHCP, UPnPTM and DDNS Support Connectivity 10/100Mbps Fast Ethernet Audio 2-Way Audio1 •Built-in Microphone •8Kbps General I/O •1 Opto-isolated Sensor Input (max.12V DC 50mA) •1 Relay Output (max. 24V DC 1A, 125V AC 0.5A) Camera Specification •¼â€

not pounds euros, 1 euro = 1.4825 dollars Yap webcams are cheap nowadays but they still have a better frame rate than your analog ... running at 640x480 res. Of course I would never recommend webcams for professional security systems , that was just to show you that a crappy, cheap webcam as a better performance than a low mid analog cam Answering your questions. Imagine a network cam for 150 euros 1. yes I can put a ip cam outside 2. no, i don't need to spend money on a dvr card or sofware, sofware usually comes it the Ip cam. 3. yes I can see at night as much as a normal analog cam without IR 4. I can use cat5 and put the camera 100 meters away 5. Yes I can plug my Ip cam to the tv 6. Normal lifespan for eletronics.... if not warranty 7. Normal, same as analog 8. In europe all electronics have at least 2 year warranty 9. Yes 10. Yes I can add more cameras and have more than quad view Does your analog camera include DVR card and software for 50 dollars?

ok.... I see, 8 cat5 cables. Easy to solve 1 pair for video (of the pair 1 wire for "tip or +" and another wire for "ring or -) blue pair Then and just for those 4 cams, use a twisted pair for + (orange and oreange white) and another twisted pair for - (brown and brown white). Don't forget to connect those new pairs in the power supply

Do you have any cat5 pairs available in those 4 cams? Are the cams separated in 8 cat5 wires?

Yap Ip cams with WAN integrated. You can get some cheap ones 640x480 (with a nice image) for less than €100.

Not a bad image... for €50 Ok, I can do the same with €5, cheap webcam 640x480

Hey rory come on already read in this forum that they are mid low range cams and for 50 bucks ... hummm I can get 2 webcams 800x600 or a network cam 640x480 hehehehe

OK, At my place, for test and fun I was using 2 machines. 1 computer for ip cameras and 1 with dvr card for analog cams. I would like to integrate them all in one machine plus add some webcams that I have laying around, for fun also. Total maybe 7 Ip/analog/webcams. I can run them perfectly with Milestone having the analog going thought a Ip matrix but, theres always a but, can't get the webcams there... Already tried a couple of software to test. 1. Active Webcam: - Huge cpu monger - Does not recognise the dvr bt878a card drivers, so have to use Ip matrix and get the analog cams into the soft thought an Ip adress - Not user friendly, crashes, many individual settings for each camera wich are not centralized and can not be applied to all. - Hard remote client setup - Bad support, or not exists 2. WebcamXp: . Better cpu usage - Does not accept analog cams, so have to use Ip matrix and convert them to Ip - Very few security options like motion pre trigger, delay, etc., archiving, changing paths for the cams and software - Crazy motion detection algorithm, some cams are always detecting motion some never..... crazy - Easy remote client setup thought H T T P, runs a local h t t p server (works fine) What else may I try that incorporates Ip, analog (throught dvr card and not Ip matrix), webcams with moderate Cpu usage and good security options?

lolol.... analog guys there was nothing in the original post about €50 cameras or quality Besides, give me a good analolg cam for €50 Ok, I give you this much insted of a Dvr card he will need a good graphic card