wisp_engineer

So perhaps the Value Line is acceptable for indoor installations, but when running wiring outside where it may be exposed, one should either put it in conduit or use the premium line?

Does anyone have pictures to show comparison between the two? I'd be interested to see how big of a quality difference there is.

Thanks for checking.

I know this thread has been quiet for a while but I came across this while looking through my documentation. I saved the file a while back to my workstation so I have the actual link here. It discusses using the Canopy system for CCTV purposes.

http://motorola.wirelessbroadbandsupport.com/fp/downlink.php?id=3621ea6a3a8ed0425754dcb794b7222d

Anyone here ever use the Genesis Value Line series of rg59? It is pretty low cost compared to the Genesis Premium rg59. I can save almost 22 bucks a spool (500ft) by going with the Value Line.

I called the dist. and asked him what was the difference and if it was all copper construction and he said yes, and he is shipping the stuff like mad and has had no issues.

Any thoughts? What are the typical brands everyone here uses?

Are you trying to say that this Toshiba cameras are lower priced than ACTI?

 

Probably they make the CCD them self but i am still skeptic.

 

What is your ball park price you buy toshiba at? please disclose.

 

In SE-Asia we do not see toshiba ip application so much yet.

They are about $500 a piece list price. I am not going to disclose wholesale.

Does anyone here have good/bad experience with Toshiba IP cameras? I see the IK-WD01A is very low cost which may fit a job I am looking at.

How about other low cost alternatives instead of Toshiba? I have seen Acti but I am leery about them, and their prices are generally more (but I guess it is all relative).

I've never used the 484 dome but have used the 484 box cameras and they are amazing. I am expecting the same results from the domes....

I have a few job estimates pending PO's and they have 484 domes on them.

I think Canopy would be a great choice. I've designed a few CCTV systems using it.

If you want a reliable, robust network that has near zero downtime then I would use Canopy. If you can tolerate some outages and are willing to troubleshoot issues, then use lower cost 802.11 gear.

What kind of non-line of sight do you have? Trees, buildings, hills?

Canopy 5.4GHz OFDM would be the best option for PTMP NLOS and nLOS systems, depending on your required throughput and the environmental issues you are battling.. The most recent CCTV system I planned uses 5.4GHz OFDM stuff, but the furthest SM is around a few hundred yards.

For a multi-access point canopy system to work properly you will need to sync them together, or use a CMM. No ifs ands or buts about it. No sync, and you're going to be battling yourself due to self interference.

Just thought I'd sing the praise of these cameras, as if it has not been done enough before. I just did 3 of them today, one inside a very bright entry lobby, two outdoors. Amazing, and i mean it, images. The customer was blown away.

Also added a Honeywell vandal dome, and for the price the images were awesome. It was very reasonably priced.

Replaced: Pelco Color camera (black box cam, color only forgot the model)

Toshiba IK644A

Accurate (who makes this?) (forgot the model, looks old though)

Many shotty made BNC connectors

Added: 3 CP484's

1 Honeywell WDR vandal dome

I'd run conduit personally.

Isn't it funny that the people that theoretically SHOULD have the money and the wherewithal to know that they need to spend money on something like this, are the biggest tightwads?

Gotcha

Yeah I saw the cheezeball cams but I didn't know if you actually sold those to him or not and was not about to chastise over that one

Nice write up!

I'd kill you though if I caught you dremeling out a soffit on a house like that. LOL

Did you put some wood patch on it and then repaint it too?

It might have been just as easy to install a surface mount single gang jbox on the outside before you have to pass over the two 2x4's and then use a gland nut to pass the cable into the jbox.

Nice work otherwise.

Here is a new one for me, the customer says that they have a couple of cameras that "white out", their words, intermittently. The viewer said she saw the camera being viewed go completly white, and then back to normal image.

Any idea? I would guess bad camera.

I think all of these cams are Pelco WDR's. The system has been in place for about 5 or 6 years now and the company that was servicing the customer never returns calls or shows up.

The biggest problem we found is the relative unavailability of direct burial CAT-5. Even when we did find it, the cost of 25-pair was astronomical. Granted, it is considered not absolutely necessary to use direct burial cable in conduit, but we've found that it is. Outside conduit tends to fill up with water, no matter how much care was taken in its installation. Non direct burial cable typically won't last very long in that environment.

That is correct!

Any time you use cable in conduit that is buried you should always use direct bury rated cable with either flooding jelly or some type of waterblock tape or powder. Water WILL find its way into the cable.

You cannot expect facial recognition unless you have an up-close shot. Not going to happen.

Those areas in the shop make me concerned. What happens when the bay doors open up? You get white out. Good luck seeing anything then. Did you put a wide dynamic range camera in those areas?

Thanks! Actually I also looked at the Ganz unit. It seemed nice but with the reviews that everyone here has given on the 484 units I figured I probably should get those. Do you or does anyone have any stills from a Ganz WDR?

It's ok.

Neither have I...

I understand the concepts of transmission systems though. We run all kinds of things over 25-pair like audio, control, data, etc. Video really is no different other than it is just a higher frequency and a different form of modulation.

I'd never hesitate to use baluns though. A lot of devices actually have baluns built into them, you just don't realize it.

Where are you looking to see it is really untwisted? If it terminates at a 66-block you can bet it is going to be fanned out and untwisted quite a bit.

If you were to take a couple of feet of 25-pair CAT3 and remove the jacket, you'd see it was twisted just as much as your regular 3-pair CAT3 drop wire.

I know ADT has no issues running VID and PTZ control over CAT3 as I went up to bid against them on a job. They were going to use baluns to connect the PTZ to the DVR. Both were separated by some distance.... The only common point was the 25-pair cable running from one end of the factory to the other.

My only concern is you might get some noise issues from the POTS pairs in the cable. Are these digital phones or analog (POTS) phones?

Well I'm working on estimating a job. Our price is not so bad, its still over 500 bucks though. Once you tack on margin.... it puts the hurt on.

CAT3 for sure IS twisted. The twist rate however is much lower than that of CAT5 or higher Category ratings.

Old phone wiring is NOT twisted, meaning station wire such refered to as JK wire. It basically is like 2-wire home theater wire, where you have two PIC wires inside another jacket. I wouldn't suggest using JK for anything anymore these days as you are not afforded the noise cancellation features of CAT3 or higher cables.

25-pair phone cables are at a minimum CAT3. You can purchase 25-pair CAT5E cables as well but I doubt that is what you are dealing with. Most likely you are looking at 25-pair CAT3.

I did some digging and found Panasonic has a 484 dome. These things are expensive at list price!

I have been doing some research on WDR cams for outdoor use to deliver best - quality images during the day and at night with IR illumination.

I see the Panasonic 484 is referenced a lot here by everyone as their go-to WDR box, but does anyone have any go-to WDR vandal domes that would compare with the 484 in terms of image quality?

I use a product called Duct Seal. It is a non hardening plumber putty like substance. It seals against dust, noise, drafts, and moisture. I press it in around the conduit, or wiring and thats it. Never had a problem. It sells in one pound blocks at Home Depot.

My .02

After I posted my reply I thought about duct seal as well. We use that to seal holes on communications sites where the cables pass through the entry port, if there are extra holes or spaces. Keeps the bugs out