Simultaneous Multi-Channel Recording

[erieslabhunter 0]

Forgive my ignorance, but after several hours reading I am very stuck on this concept. Is this a given on these DVR systems?

 

I am not a security guy by any means, just a guy trapped into some labor. Because no other parents in the country school my kids attend know how to edit video, I have sort of been roped into something. A few people have seen some of my editing (football games and such) and have asked that I do the A/V stuff for the school musicals.

 

It is very difficult syncing multiple cameras on the editing timeline, so I am trying to find a way to record all streams at once - into separate files if possible. If I can get the ok to mount some higher quality cameras in the auditorium, I think this type of system would be wonderful. Story explained, would an 8 channel or 16 channel DVR record each stream at 25-30FPS at the camera's fullest resolution?

 

My confusion is just due to what I have seen on TV about CCTV with the split screen (is this the "quadraplexing, duplexing, triplexing and pentaplexing?) lower resolution stuff. I don't need to see 8 cameras on a monitor, I simply want to be sure to capture all channels and edit later.

 

Sorry for the long explanation, I just want to be very clear about why I am asking and what I am looking for. Just looking to be pointed in a closer direction.

[scorpion 0]

I am first curious about the audio. Are you doing stereo, or are you doing sound surround? Will you want to capture "laugh trax" from the audience, or would the production be enhanced with full effect of the audience?

 

Will you be doing a 5.1 sound recording?

 

No will you be recording audio seperately, or will you want to capture multi mic, and multi video all at the same time?

 

How much are you willing to put in to this project. I do not see a return of profit on the investment so this project will be what you can afford out of pocket is this correct?

 

If quality is of the essence then I would stick to more traditional computer software, and do your editing on a computer.

 

The biggest problem with this project in my opinion would be the type of computer selected to perform multitasking. It would have to have a very fast internal communication. I do not know all of the bus language, and I am sure there will be others who will come along and let you know what computer specs you will need.

 

I would avoid the $300.00 computers on the shelves at the "Wally World".

 

Granted these computers are probably more powerful then computers that came out 10 years ago, but I would upgrade to the point where it hurts the wallet.

 

Video surveillance equipment is not really geared to production work. There are minor quirks in both elements that are not similiar in the opposite environment. For production work I would not want to use any compression what so ever. I would want the video going straight to the hard drive.

 

I would also watch the auto auctions as a lot of the TV news vans are out there because of the digital transition, and you might be able to strip them for the contents, and let the auto bidder keep the "chassis".

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-camera

 

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/index.html

 

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/Advanced+Video/Liquid+Edition/Avid+Liquid+Pro+7

 

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/finalcutpro/

 

http://desktop.thomsongrassvalley.com/products/EDIUS/index.php

 

http://www.virtualdub.org/ (I think this is still free. scorpion).

 

http://www.3dvsystems.com/

 

http://wareseeker.com/free-adobe-photoshop-cs3-help/

 

 

_____________________________________________________________

 

This link may be the extreme, but it may give you ideas on how to build the "Experimenters Version". I would try to contact Television studios, and make friends there to see if you can get some "analog" stuff that is just laying around as they switch to digital.

 

 

 

 

http://www.lvideoservices.fr/applicMonitoring.htm

 

http://www.lvideoservices.fr/index.html

 

http://www.lvideoservices.fr/picture.htm

 

http://www.lvideoservices.fr/prodMVR.htm (Click on this link demo multicam mockup)

 

http://www.lvideoservices.net/

 

http://www.lvideoservices.net/hd_links.htm

 

 

 

Technical specifications of MVRâ„¢

Frame accurate sync among all channels (with genlock)

4 to 16 video inputs (SDI - composite)

4 to 32 independent audio inputs (analog XLR - jack3,5)

MPEG2 @ 2..25Mbits/s file output

I-frame to GOP30 with any IBP configurations

4/3 and 16/9 modes, image preprocessing

Support of progressive 720 x 576 (25p)

Many hours of internal recording cap for 10 cameras

Confidence monitor loop-through (Internal VGA frame)

4U rack (400W, 20kg, 60cm depth)

 

Ready for production

Standalone operation

 

Key Benefits of MVRâ„¢ platform

up to 16 video recorders in a single 4U rack

industrial PC capable of running your NLE (not during record)

Direct editing of video material (no transfer, no conversion)

Ideal for 576p to 720p blow up

Built-in analog inputs (no nood for conversion)

SAN friendly (MPEG2=smallest file format)

Gigabit, Firewire, Usb2 usable as storage for live recording !

 

Single Rack

Industrial grade PC

Windows XP PRO

Forgettable MBTF (100000h)

 

 

Intellectual property

Near zero fragmentation for 10 streams on the same disk drive (Multicam File System, MFSâ„¢).

Frame-accurate iso-record (gang-record) of non-genlocked sources (Computer Clap â„¢)

AutoFlush â„¢ is doing background copy with controlled bandwidth to the Editing workstations

AutoFlush â„¢ is part of MFSâ„¢, and offers a multi-seat solution for near-to-live production at no additional cost

Unique features

A custom Multi-Instance application (MVRI) allows independant 4 channel operation

Compatible with HDV low-cost camcorder via component output (with or without genlock)

No timecode is needed (no VITC nor LTC)

Easy multi-angle (3D) interactive DVD creation

Millisecond synchronization with genlocked sources (special effects / high-speed shutter)

Gop aligned MPEG structure

Options

Storage (up to 4 TB internal), Networking (dual gigabit, 10GBe)

Multi-channel confidence monitoring

Real-time Mosaic Channel for alternate processing / editing

Multi-channel synchronous replay (8 in, 8 out).

Patch panel

LTC or VITC time code

Compatible Editing

Adobe Premiere Pro

Avid / Pinnacle Liquid

Apple FCP

Canopus / Grass Valley Edius

The MPEG2 mod of VirtualDub (the best free stuff, thank you to phaeron & fccHandler !)

Any MPEG2 Non Linear Editor

Custom / OEM developments

MPEG2 TS multiplex output (DVB-ASI, IP)

Metadata, sound, motion detection, content based automation

Multi-format encoding (proxy demo)

Clustering multiple configurations (up to hundreds of video channels !)

MOS, MXF customization (new style automation)

Slow Motion & Super Slow Motion ("lsm" demo available)

Sony, Odetics, Louth protocols (old fashioned automation)

 

 

 

_____________________________________________________________

 

http://www.topshareware.com/VJamm-Blueprint-download-38425.htm

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_/ai_n8550587

 

http://www.amcuk.com/amc8371p.html

 

http://cmp.felk.cvut.cz/projects/multicam/

 

http://graphics.cis.udel.edu/MultiCamera/index.html

[erieslabhunter 0]

I am first curious about the audio. Are you doing stereo, or are you doing sound surround? Will you want to capture "laugh trax" from the audience, or would the production be enhanced with full effect of the audience?

Stereo direct from the school's stereo PA system.

 

Will you be doing a 5.1 sound recording?

Never done it yet, future hobby possibly, would love to play with F:R Fade eventually - but not yet.

 

No will you be recording audio seprately, or will you want to capture multi mic, and multi video all at the same time?

No audience reactions, possibly down the road will do an alternate audio track but not this year.

 

How much are you willing to put in to this project. I do not see a return of profit on the investment so this project will be what you can afford out of pocket is this correct?

I thought I could do with what I had but can't find a way to get multiple signals to record at once on a PC based laptop. There is absolutely zero return, if the school were to try and sell the final DVD's for a couple dollars, that is profits to the music boosters. When I am done with the project I intend to donate all the equipment to the school in hopes that they develop an A/V club to carry on the the works and future projects.

 

If quality is of the essence then I would stick to more traditional computer software, and do your editing on a computer.

All editing is done in Sony Vegas, so yes I prefer uncompressed raw AVI.

 

I would avoid the $300.00 computers on the shelves at the "Wally World".

I am willing to build a computer to the specs, just not purchase a 'ready to go' 'out of the box' system for $10k, nor will I spend $4200 on a Mac. If a computer can do what i am seeking for a reasonable amount all around, as in both hardware cost and software costs. I will not pay $2,995 for ANY software package.

 

That is all I have time to reply to since I have not looked at the links offered completely yet.

[scorpion 0]

When I am done with the project I intend to donate all the equipment to the school in hopes that they develop an A/V club to carry on the the works and future projects.

 

I would maintain possession of the equipment, and then provide it to the school. Imagine a change in teachers, and you have one who cares less about AV, or electronics, and then chaos hits the class as students start taking items home, or other try to "hord" the items until another teacher can be brought in to replace this teacher.

 

I saw this with my own eyes while in my jr year in high school. The electronics teacher there was the greatest thing to electronics teaching, the students, the faculty, and a program that the school board was proud of. This teacher had high end corporations donating money, and products to the class.

 

He had to quit at the end of my JR year. The guy who replaced him new nothing of electronics, and he crashed the program, and students were bailing after the winter break.

 

Tools were being stolen, and items were coming up missing.

I managed to salvage all of the Electronics magazine where we had been building projects.

 

The following year they shut down the class.

 

What would happen to the stuff if someone took those items? You can always give the stuff back to the class when the next teacher comes in, and get it going again.

 

What do you think.

 

I hope you can pull off a beginers build with the links I gave you!

[GAtkins 0]

It would probably be easier to use multiple independent cameras in MiniDV/AVI format and some form of "clapboard" syncing.

 

In the old days they would literally use a two boards clapped together to make a sound when all cameras were rolling, hence the term "clapboard." They could then sync the sound and thus multiple cameras together.

 

More recently, I have heard of using something like the flash from a still camera when all video cameras were rolling to use as a sync point.

 

Then in the timeline of a NLE like Adobe Premeier or the one of your choice, the flash could be used to sync the video/audio of each independent camera.

 

Go here for more ideas:

 

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bb574e6/

 

Glenn

[erieslabhunter 0]

It would probably be easier to use multiple independent cameras in MiniDV/AVI format and some form of "clapboard" syncing.

Glenn that is a great idea, but is in fact what I am using now. I have a small click-popper thing. After all cameras are rolling I click the clicker.

 

It is still very difficult however when 2-3 cameras are being operated and not simply on a tripod. There are MANY clicks during the shows, and lining them all up is quite difficult. I was sort of hoping to just have them all roll the whole time.

 

Then the worst of the worst news was suggested to me... a security supplies vendor asked me if I knew that most of these DVR's produced files with vibrant timestamps and most have file formats that are proprietary so as to inhibit tampering. Meaning the files are uneditable. That has just crushed my plans and I am back to square one, finding a way to capture multiple devices on a PC, with both analog and IEEE. Very disappointed at the moment. Thank you all for your help, and suggestions.

 

If anyone has any other ideas, I am following the thread and will be back regularly to read the forums yet, I have learned alot here and am grateful.

[GAtkins 0]

I think the way to do it would be to set all cameras rolling, say three. Then click the clapboard or flash the flash or whatever. Then leave all three cameras rolling for the entire length of the event.

 

Import all three videos into a multi-track timeline in your NLE and then just sync to the first click or flash..

 

Doing it this way, you should only have to sync once at the very beginning of the event.

 

Glenn

[BurstElement 0]

As mentioned above most standalone recorders are designed so as to inhibit editing and I would recommend you steer clear of them for this application.

 

You are probably better off asking this sort of question in a forum dedicated more to recording / editing of video... e.g.

http://forum.doom9.org/

 

Having said that, you "may" find that some of the PC based equipment (i.e. DVR cards) could be of use to you if coupled with appropriate (non security related) software.

[scorpion 0]

BurstElement!!

 

How are you doing? It seems I have not seen you on the forum since Sept, or so?

 

You must have been really busy! Glad to see you back!