vladimirb 0 Posted October 6, 2009 Hello... Because I am new to all this it would be nice if you guys could answer some questions that I am bothered... 1. Axis 225FD has IR built in. Do I need an extra one for underground parking lot surveillance? (parking lot is inside the building) 2. Can I place Axis 225FD camera in corner? I have looked at Axis's Web Site but they are not providing any kind of angle wall bracket or something... 3. I will place some 225FD outdoor. Is it a good choice to buy Axis PS-12 or PS-24 power adapter for the heater? I think PS-12 has enough power but any advice would be helpful. 4. I will place one 233D outside in Axis T9500 House casing which is powered with 100-240VAC input. Axis says that it is enough for both camera and heaters and fans. Just need your opinion if you have experienced this situation do I need an extra power supply like PS-24??? I know questions are dumb but I have to be sure if I am doing something wrong. Vladimir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted October 6, 2009 Hello... Because I am new to all this it would be nice if you guys could answer some questions that I am bothered... 1. Axis 225FD has IR built in. Do I need an extra one for underground parking lot surveillance? (parking lot is inside the building) 2. Can I place Axis 225FD camera in corner? I have looked at Axis's Web Site but they are not providing any kind of angle wall bracket or something... 3. I will place some 225FD outdoor. Is it a good choice to buy Axis PS-12 or PS-24 power adapter for the heater? I think PS-12 has enough power but any advice would be helpful. 4. I will place one 233D outside in Axis T9500 House casing which is powered with 100-240VAC input. Axis says that it is enough for both camera and heaters and fans. Just need your opinion if you have experienced this situation do I need an extra power supply like PS-24??? I know questions are dumb but I have to be sure if I am doing something wrong. Vladimir The 225FD does not have built in IR illumators Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladimirb 0 Posted October 6, 2009 Thanks for response. So I have to buy IRs. I just found - Axis has AXIS T91A64 Corner Bracket and it is suitable for 225FD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted October 6, 2009 Thanks for response.So I have to buy IRs. I just found - Axis has AXIS T91A64 Corner Bracket and it is suitable for 225FD Why do you like the Axis 225FD so much? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cglaeser 0 Posted October 7, 2009 There's a lot to like about the Axis IP cameras, with the exception of low light sensitivity. The 225FD is rated at 0.2 lux, which not only is not that great, but was probably measured at the slowest shutter speed (2 seconds), which is really really poor. If you think you need IR, then you may want to consider another manufacturer. Best, Christopher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted October 7, 2009 There's a lot to like about the Axis IP cameras, with the exception of low light sensitivity. The 225FD is rated at 0.2 lux, which not only is not that great, but was probably measured at the slowest shutter speed (2 seconds), which is really really poor. If you think you need IR, then you may want to consider another manufacturer. Best, Christopher Agreed plus I think you can get more for your money. $1000 for a D1 day/night vandal dome is a little much. The new P33's from Axis are cheaper and have H.264 and you can get 720P plus according to Axis's specs they have better low light performance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladimirb 0 Posted October 7, 2009 It is a project and I will use around 250 IP cameras. Money is not the issue. The guy before me decided to use Axis 225FD for parking lot + outdoor surveillance while in the building there will be 209FD, 216FD and 212PTZ together with few 215PTZ IP cameras. These four types of cameras are fine and they will be powered with Cisco Catalyst 2960 PoE switch (except 215PTZ off course) Its 225FD which bothers me. In project, there are IRs next to few 225FDs, so I guess that will be OK. I will consider about H.264 cameras but the company who is responsible to help me, they have poor technical support but I will see if I can get any information from them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted October 7, 2009 It is a project and I will use around 250 IP cameras.Money is not the issue. The guy before me decided to use Axis 225FD for parking lot + outdoor surveillance while in the building there will be 209FD, 216FD and 212PTZ together with few 215PTZ IP cameras. These four types of cameras are fine and they will be powered with Cisco Catalyst 2960 PoE switch (except 215PTZ off course) Its 225FD which bothers me. In project, there are IRs next to few 225FDs, so I guess that will be OK. I will consider about H.264 cameras but the company who is responsible to help me, they have poor technical support but I will see if I can get any information from them. If you want 250 Axis cameras I sell them too you and I will support you I know you said money is not an issue but the P33 is a better camera then 225FD..... Also I don't know where your located at but if it gets cold you need 12DV to power the heater/blower in addition to the POE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cglaeser 0 Posted October 7, 2009 It is a project and I will use around 250 IP cameras. Wow, I just can't imagine purchasing and installing that many previous-generation cameras now that H.264 is so readily available. MPEG is fine for a few cameras, but if you plan to use a large number of cameras, H.264 will significantly reduce bandwidth and storage requirements. Also, given that low light is a requirement, I don't really think the 1/4" Axis sensors are going to be up to the task. I suggest testing with just a couple cameras, and then switch to a company like Panasonic once you discover the light is too dim for an Axis. Best, Christopher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladimirb 0 Posted October 7, 2009 I am from Bosnia and Herzegovina (Southern-East Europe) The third question was with PS-12 power adapter I know I will need an extra adapter for the heater, I found out last night. Do I have to change something in my video surveillance infrastructure if I move to H.264 IP cameras??? I will use NetAvis Observer III though. Do they make higher bandwidth than normal VGA/Megapixel IP cameras? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladimirb 0 Posted October 7, 2009 Unfortunatelly, people before me made build of material and it will be ordered just as they have imagined I can try to convince my boss to switch to H.264 but it will be a tough task to accomplish... It is a project and I will use around 250 IP cameras. Wow, I just can't imagine purchasing and installing that many previous-generation cameras now that H.264 is so readily available. MPEG is fine for a few cameras, but if you plan to use a large number of cameras, H.264 will significantly reduce bandwidth and storage requirements. Also, given that low light is a requirement, I don't really think the 1/4" Axis sensors are going to be up to the task. I suggest testing with just a couple cameras, and then switch to a company like Panasonic once you discover the light is too dim for an Axis. Best, Christopher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cglaeser 0 Posted October 7, 2009 Unfortunatelly, people before me made build of material and it will be ordered just as they have imagined I can try to convince my boss to switch to H.264 but it will be a tough task to accomplish... OK, I understand the situation. I suggest reviewing two critical features: H.264 (which relates to bandwidth and storage requirements), and low light performance. Both are extremely important. Sure, you could add thousands of watts of IR to compensate for the poor low-light performance, but it's much much easier to start with a good low-light performing camera and then add a little IR if needed. I have an Axis 223M mounted near a 50W Raymax, and the images leave a lot to be desired. Even features like day/night back focus, which is so important for good day time and IR night time focus, are so much easier with the new generation of cameras. In summary, I'm guessing your system was designed one or two years ago, and there are newer products that are cheaper and perform much better. Best, Christopher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cglaeser 0 Posted October 7, 2009 I know I will need an extra adapter for the heater, I found out last night. There are two basic options, 1) run a separate low voltage line directly to the heater, or 2) use high POE (high power over ethernet) to power both the camera and the heater. Best, Christopher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladimirb 0 Posted October 7, 2009 We will use Axis T90A21 IR-LED 50-100 DEG: http://www.axis.com/products/cam_irillum/t90a/ Is this good enough? And I will consider H.264 definatelly. And you were right, this build of material was built round march-april 2008. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cglaeser 0 Posted October 7, 2009 We will use Axis T90A21 IR-LED 50-100 DEG: http://www.axis.com/products/cam_irillum/t90a/ Is this good enough? Those are Raytec Raymax IR units with an Axis label. Raymax are excellent units. Compare prices at Rayled.com. Keep in mind, however, that IR has a different wavelength than visible light, and the focus is different. Some cameras solve this problem with different focusing for day light and night IR. The Axis cameras do not. So, not only does the Axis have poor low light, it requires more IR than some cameras, and even then, the IR is not focused particularly well. Just some things to think about. I like your selection of the Raymax IR. I'm concerned you will not be happy with the selection of the Axis cameras. Can you take a step back and give an overview of your intended use? For example, are people going to be monitoring the cameras? Do you need people identification at night? Is there night lighting, or are the scenes relatively dark at night? How much video to you need to store? Best, Christopher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladimirb 0 Posted October 7, 2009 I just talked to boss and H.264 is not an option because they are more expensive here and on old ones we get more rebate People will monitor cameras, there will be IP camera server room where there will be 7 NetAvis Observer III servers on NetEye400 rackmount each one with 4TB storage space. Will also have 6x Cisco Catalyst 2960 PoE switch 24-port ad they will be connected to 1x Cisco 4500 L3 switch and further more to NetAVis Servers. Between switches there will be fiber optic cable and between 2960 and IP cameras CAT5 cable. I guess this is the solution and I can't go beyond this. Only thing I can do is to make triggers on NetAVis if someone is spotted light to turn on and IP camera will capture an image of an intruder. I will manage something. But I wish I can use H.264 just for these low-light conditions. Vladimir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cglaeser 0 Posted October 7, 2009 I just talked to boss and H.264 is not an option OK, understood. But I wish I can use H.264 just for these low-light conditions. Just for clarification, H.264 and low-light performance are two separate issues. H.264 is a video codec that provides much better compression than previous generation security cameras. H.264 is more a function of the processor and firmware, and low-light performance is more a function of the sensor technology. The newer generation of Axis cameras do support H.264, but as a general rule have relatively poor low-light performance compared to other manufacturers. Best, Christopher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladimirb 0 Posted October 8, 2009 I have meant to say H.264 IP cameras, my mistake. I know H.264 is type of compression and I used Axis Design Tool and bandwidth is almost half of M-PEG4 Lets say my boss decide to purchase H.264 IP cameras. What type of H.264 camera you would purchase instead of: 209FD, 216FD, 212PTZ, 215PTZ, 225FD and 233D... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zmxtech 0 Posted October 9, 2009 I think you need to have demo`s of all the cameras at night time to get an idea what you want. And what works together. Axis are great cams but not the best for night. For your "night cams" look for IR cut filter specs. Most of the specs are BOGUS "slow shutter static images", great but not when the bad guys are running or speeding away. it will be a blur. 250 cams you need your own satellite and yes Raymax are the go for Quality & specs vs price I don't think h264 is great when Terra-bytes of space is cheap and Ive heard its not too flash encoding /recording night shots with noise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladimirb 0 Posted October 18, 2009 Hello it is me again Well, I think we will use H.264 cameras after all So I will replace my current cameras in this order: 209FD will stay 216FD > P3343 both 6mm and 12mm 225FD > P3343 both 6mm and 12mm outdoor 225FD > P3343-VE 212PTZ will stay 215PTZ will stay 233D > Q6032-E What do you guys think about this setup??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
