Vandalism and Sysem Help Needed-

[surf1div1 0]

Hi,

I've recently discovered this forum and thought after reading through some of the posts that I would post my dilemna. I'm interested in help in suggestions as to what to purchase and possibly where to put a CCTV. I have a problem with a neighbor, or friends of them that are vandalizing my two cars that are parked on the street and would like some help with how to approach this. First, I would prefer a system(cameras) that were not obtrusive or in fact stealth in nature. I want to be able to identify who is doing it- that is the goal of the system- not to scare them off. I've made a police report, but as most are aware, without hard evidence, there's really nothing I can do. So far, over the course of 6 months I've had my new car's hood dented(which I wasn't sure was vandalism, but now believe) and then my new car egged. Recently, whoever did that probably drove my and threw a heavy canned food can at the side of the car setting off the alarm on that car. These acts(at least the most recent) are done at night, with the closet street light about 70' from our house. I have a 23-1/2 motorhome parked in the driveway that has on the sides smoked tinted windows that would give pretty close proximity to the one car parked against the curb(the newer one) and the van across the street(about another 30'). For stealth, I'm thinking of putting cameras in the motorhome and running a power cord to the motorhome going from the garage to the motorhome and setting up a decent DVR and cameras that would view through the windows in the motorhome. Since their tinted and the domes I've seen in a lot of the sites advertising cameras have the same shade, I 'think' that this would be ok. Also, the back of the motorhome comes up right against the garage door and the power cord wouldnt' be that noticeable (if they figured out that this was the monitoring station per se) The motorhome is alarmed full time with a paging feature so that if it was to be broken into, it would immediately signal us inside(if were home My other option is possibly replacing the motion detector light that goes off with one of the stealth camera's built into one of those same housing. Primarily, all I'm concerned about is the front of the house since I have a dog in the back yard and it's very protective and would not be something at this time I'm thinking that I "need" to cover with a camera. I also have a spare computer that I could configure for use as a DVR with upgrading the storage and replacing the video card. Currently, I'm not that interested in being able to monitor it off the net for security reasons, and my wife is a stay at home mom. Since being able to ID who's doing it is the primary criteria, I would like something with the quality and stealh to do it without announcing to the neighborhood that I've got these cameras- please post online as I prefer the dialog that comes about from suggestions and reasoning for what is being suggested. This is a great soucre for those of us considering a system. BTW, I live in California if that's any consideration.

 

Surf1div1

[qman 0]

Damm man, I feel your pain.

 

First things that you need to consider is the budget that you want to allocate for this project. The main reason is that in order to get a quality camera, you are most likely going to have to use a regular box camera, because of lighting issues, I don't know if a bullet will do the trick. MAybe a infrared tank bullet, like one that I carry might be an option, as it has 92 led's, at 920mm, which basically means that you won't see the red lights.

 

Best thing to do is to take pics of where you are going to mount the cameras, looking at where you are going to have the cars parked.

[surf1div1 0]

The budge I have would be hopefully under 2,000 US. When you refer to a quality box camera, would one of those Bosch day/night camera's fit the bill? Their products I've seen mentioned on this forum, but they have a 1/3" or 1/2" and am wondering the advantages/disadvantages to either of those sizes with any camera. I'll try again to reference what you have on your site, but the link in your post was working yesterday...I"ve drawn in paint a schematic, but am wondering how to post jpegs for viewing.

 

TIA-

Surf

[qman 0]

e mail me the file, hermin@shscomputers.com and I'll post it for you.

[rory 0]

how'd I miss this one ..

 

anyway, pronably missed it due to the non pararaphs and herm responded .

anyway, check the prodiucts in this catalogue and see if anything interests you. Im not selling as it is in BAH$ but just to give you an idea of whats out there.

http://bahamassecurity.com/uploads/xtremeCCTVcatApril2005.1.01.pdf

 

The hidden cameras arent weatherproof, though you can seal up a gangbox and stick in a pinhole mini camera to make it hidden and seal it up good, to work outside. I have done this before. Or you can use a discree bullet camera, they are hard to see physically. A dome will give you the most vandal proof solution such as the WizKid BW or Color Dome.

 

for your situation I would use a BW camera for sure. If you need part numbers to get pricing, let me know. I can get a dealer in your area or one from this forum to contact you, or I can post part numbers and you can research the best way to get them yourself.

 

Rory

[surf1div1 0]

Hi Rory,

I'll respond within...

 

how'd I miss this one ..

 

anyway, pronably missed it due to the non pararaphs and herm responded .

anyway, check the prodiucts in this catalogue and see if anything interests you. Im not selling as it is in BAH$ but just to give you an idea of whats out there.

http://bahamassecurity.com/uploads/xtremeCCTVcatApril2005.1.01.pdf

 

Well, let me start with what does "non-paragrphs" mean? Both of you have referred to products. I appreciate your help for suggestions, and was wondering if based on the above scenario (motorhome in the driveway) or exterior mount would be better. I ask, because it appears that unless I know where I'm going to mount the cameras, how would I know what to choose- I'm thinking of using the stealth factor of filming through windows of the motorhome. Anythoughts on this? I'm favoring this due to the proximity to the cars- the front of the motorhome is right to the driveway- one car(the new one) is parked litterally 10' away. The otherone is across the street- about 30' away. I also could mount the cameras on top of the motorhome. One of my thoughts is to use good cameras with a possible wireless transmitter to send the signal into the home with either a great DV Card in a dedicated computer(which I have an extra) or a great quality DVR with a minimum of 4 and preferably more inputs to have more cameras. Is this feasable, or more specifically practical? Here is a camera that was suggested: http://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4167 with the following Lens (I believe this is the correct one)- http://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3608, I would like a DVR that would handle more then 4 cameras though, and allow me to put in whatever size hard drive I want so that I don't have any limitations there.

 

 

The hidden cameras arent weatherproof, though you can seal up a gangbox and stick in a pinhole mini camera to make it hidden and seal it up good, to work outside. I have done this before. Or you can use a discree bullet camera, they are hard to see physically. A dome will give you the most vandal proof solution such as the WizKid BW or Color Dome.

 

Rory, if I went with a hidden camera in a ganbox with a pinhole minicamera, would I really be limited with distance and clarity? Excuse my lack of knowledge here, I'm still learning as a newbie and end user

 

 

for your situation I would use a BW camera for sure. If you need part numbers to get pricing, let me know. I can get a dealer in your area or one from this forum to contact you, or I can post part numbers and you can research the best way to get them yourself.

 

All help is appreicated. BTW, since I originally posted this, the guy that threw the can at my car was arrested and has to go to court for a mistameanor(excuse the spelling) arrest. It was who I thought it was- so 'we' have a court date, but the DA has yet to mail me the specifics- the local police called me @ work last night to let me know. I'm so glad- I'm still going ahead with my system though- peace of mind is worth more to me especially now since I won't drop the charges currently.

 

Rory

[rory 0]

Hi, yes a fixed hidden camera can limit you, though you can always buy micro lenses seperately and change them according to the distance, the ones I have seen go as high as 16mm.

 

Full camera will give you the best image. I dont know the make of that camera link you posted, but the price is around the same as the well known brands such as GE, Sanyo, etc, so id probably look at one of them.

 

Ive never tried a camera looking out from inside, so cant comment there.

 

For vandalism and good quality, as well as discreet, the only real choice is a Varifocal Dome Camera. Several Companies sell these, such as Speco Provideo, Hunt, and i just bought one from Ameba to use on a job. WizKid has a literally undestructable dome, you can get in BW, fixed micro lens in a small housing, or a larger housing with a varifocal lens. All come in High Res Versions.

 

For real discreet, then some mini bullet cameras. Speco has the best selection for discreet, on the US side of the world, though there are many other brands that can work also, and most are all OEM anyway in the bullet cam world.

 

I guess you can buy 1 camera full box camera, full lens, and try it inside looking out, problems with the image, reflections etc, then look at the outdoor covert method.

 

DVR with full upgradable options, would really be a PC based. Im using the Iview PC Card and Im very pleased with them. Most stand alones will also allow you to change the HDDs though at least. AvTech has a 16 channel with removeable HDDs, its the cheapest on the market, fine for most home users.

 

Its hard to help with this, without seeing the area, and really depends on the budget, and your own needs.

 

Rory

[surf1div1 0]

Thanks Rory for your feedback, I'll cut/paste from your response on the questions I have, and thanks again for your feedback.

 

"For vandalism and good quality, as well as discreet, the only real choice is a Varifocal Dome Camera. Several Companies sell these, such as Speco Provideo, Hunt, and i just bought one from Ameba to use on a job. WizKid has a literally undestructable dome, you can get in BW, fixed micro lens in a small housing, or a larger housing with a varifocal lens. All come in High Res Versions."

 

If you were going for the above, but one that has the ability for better facial recognition, what would you suggest as to a model/manufacture?

 

"DVR with full upgradable options, would really be a PC based. Im using the Iview PC Card and Im very pleased with them. Most stand alones will also allow you to change the HDDs though at least. AvTech has a 16 channel with removeable HDDs, its the cheapest on the market, fine for most home users. "

 

Which stand alones are you referring to? I'm thinking of either a 4 or 9 channel as this is primarily residential. What the set-up of the home is we have two car's parked on either side of a residential street, and a motorhome parked in the driveway. The motorhome obstructs the view as you can imagine, which means that I'm considering putting a camera on either side of the garage on the first story. It's a two story home. Also we want to put a camera off the entrance to the home to see who's at the door. Currently we have a very good watchdog(Austrailian Cattle Dog) in the backyard that my wife believes could easily alert us to anyone coming in back of the home. The problem is that the individual who's doing the vandalism has a brother that has threatened their neighbors dog already, and don't want to depend on the dog if they should poison our dog-which wouldn't be beyond someone who would suggest that. My wife thinks it's overkill. Anyway, someone where I work who does this for a living has come up with the following, and would appreciate any feedback from the board based on what he has suggested. I'll paste that for your feedback, or anyone else- and thanks in advance for your help!

 

For a surveillance system at your home, I recommend the following:

1: 4 vandal-resistant miniature dome B&W cameras mounted at the locations> indicated on the attached diagram.

2. 1 digital video recorder, network capable, mounted in a locking enclosure> in the rafters of the garage.

3. The wiring and hardware necessary to connect these devices.>> In addition, you will need the following:

1. A 120VAC power source, either by an electrical extension cord or a hard-wired electrical outlet in the area that the digital recorder is installed. 2. A run of network-compatible wiring to connect the digital recorder into the household network.

3. The option of an RF encoder and related equipment to insert the video output from the digital recorder into the household cable television system to enable instant viewing on any television in the house. Per our discussions, the digital recorder should have in excess of four inputs to allow for future expansion. The camera in the backyard will be the most challenging for wiring routing, due to the distance from the recorder and the nature of the contruction of the house. The wiring may have to be surface-mounted inside a raceway or wiremold for concealment and protection from the elements. Due to state law, I cannot perform work or provide equipment valued at more than $2000 unless I'm a licensed contractor. Therefore, I propose the following> arrangement. I will provide the cameras, related wiring, locking enclosure, power supplies, labor, and necessary hardware to install the equipment. I will connect the equipment, set it up, and test it. Due to the cost of the digital recorder and your concerns about warranty issues, I recommend that you should obtain the recorder directly from the distributor. I can provide guidance and recommendations as to which recorder will meet your requirements. By obtaining the recorder directly from the distributor, especially if you use a credit card, you will be better protected. The cost structure is as follows: Vandal-resistant B&W camera @ $195 ea., which includes cabling and power supplies. Locking 16 ga. steel enclosure @ $25, which includes mounting hardware. Misc. hardware, mounting equip., and other supplies @ $100.Installation labor fee @ $250 for the work outlined above, which will include initial installation, connection, setup, and testing of the equipment including the digital recorder. I offer these options: RF encoder (1 chan.) @ $150, which includes power supply, signal combiner, and necessary wire to insert video output from recorder into house cable system. The encoder would be set to an empty channel past the currently used spectrum,usually chan 85 or higher.

 

Well that's it. I know that this individual is very capable of doing the job as the company I work for a huge Corporation and they chose the company out of any company. More importantly our work is banking related, so they can't do it on the cheap. This inidividual is the companies Lead Tech for our office which houses over 1000 people. That's it for now...

 

Surf

[C7 in CA 0]

2. 1 digital video recorder, network capable, mounted in a locking enclosure> in the rafters of the garage.

 

Heat might be an issue. Other then that... Do you have a link for the 25 dollar lockable enclosure? That's a great price!

[rory 0]

ill have to go through it properrly later, just got home .. question though, whats an RF encoder, never heard of that ..

[C7 in CA 0]

question though, whats an RF encoder, never heard of that ..

 

rf modulator is my guess.

[surf1div1 0]

RF modulator that allows me to monitor the cams on the TV inside. I don't have a link for the enclosure- and you've brought up a good point- the heat- since I'm in California, I'm not sure what kind of heat issues there would be it in the rafters. Once I get the specifics as to cams, and DVD recorder possibly this group will have some feedback as to what the limitations are of the gear, or suggestions for alternatives. Thanks,

[surf1div1 0]

Hi Guys- I thought I would add to this original post here since the installer has gotten back to me re: some of the questions I have- Here is his response slightly edited (took his company name out for privacy)

 

The cameras I've chosen are vandal-resistant, with very tough plastic bubbles. The part number is cc-3002-ir, which have infrared illuminators to ensure excellent night-time scene illumination.

 

On the DVR issue, the requirement for greater than 4 camera capability is what is driving the price way up. Inexpensive 4-cam units have been introduced by many manufacturers, since they have the greatest potential distribution to small retailers, convenience stores, etc. However, reliable 9-cam units and up are pretty much a mainstream thing. A 9-cam DVR with a 160b GB hard drive that I would use for myself is going to run $1200, and it's a generic machine, not name brand.

 

The name-brand units with the similar specs I have access to are: Bosch - $2200

GE Security - $2400 (10 cam, smaller hard drive)

Pelco - $2300 (8 cam, not 9)

Sanyo - $1500 (smaller hard drive by half)

 

And all these prices are cost+10%, which is what I pay.

 

There's a company in Burbank called VSSI that our company buys from periodically, and they have a brand called Nuvico that is supposed to be inexpensive with good features. I've got no direct experince, so can't vouch for the mfr, but it's an option. And VSSI is a well-established company with good customer service. They may not sell to you directly, because they're supposed to be a distributor only and protect their client base, but I know for a fact that people have bought stuff on a walk-in basis.

 

I have seen a brochure on a tiny little pan/tilt camera, about 5 inches wide and 7 inches tall, that you may be interested in. It comes with a hard-wired remote on a 90-ft cable, but it's color and weatherproof. It's basically two tiny motors moving a little board camera in an aluminum housing, but I haven't seen anything else like it in the same price range of $750. It doesn't zoom in and has a fairly narrow field of view, but it might fit the bill for you.

 

I'm sure who the manufacture is that he's referenced for the cams as he's only listed a part #, but possibly others are familiar, and with this forum, possibly someone has some feedback on (Nuvico) or this PTZ he's found.

 

TIA-

Surf1

 

 

Thanks Rory for your feedback, I'll cut/paste from your response on the questions I have, and thanks again for your feedback.

 

"For vandalism and good quality, as well as discreet, the only real choice is a Varifocal Dome Camera. Several Companies sell these, such as Speco Provideo, Hunt, and i just bought one from Ameba to use on a job. WizKid has a literally undestructable dome, you can get in BW, fixed micro lens in a small housing, or a larger housing with a varifocal lens. All come in High Res Versions."

 

If you were going for the above, but one that has the ability for better facial recognition, what would you suggest as to a model/manufacture?

 

"DVR with full upgradable options, would really be a PC based. Im using the Iview PC Card and Im very pleased with them. Most stand alones will also allow you to change the HDDs though at least. AvTech has a 16 channel with removeable HDDs, its the cheapest on the market, fine for most home users. "

 

Which stand alones are you referring to? I'm thinking of either a 4 or 9 channel as this is primarily residential. What the set-up of the home is we have two car's parked on either side of a residential street, and a motorhome parked in the driveway. The motorhome obstructs the view as you can imagine, which means that I'm considering putting a camera on either side of the garage on the first story. It's a two story home. Also we want to put a camera off the entrance to the home to see who's at the door. Currently we have a very good watchdog(Austrailian Cattle Dog) in the backyard that my wife believes could easily alert us to anyone coming in back of the home. The problem is that the individual who's doing the vandalism has a brother that has threatened their neighbors dog already, and don't want to depend on the dog if they should poison our dog-which wouldn't be beyond someone who would suggest that. My wife thinks it's overkill. Anyway, someone where I work who does this for a living has come up with the following, and would appreciate any feedback from the board based on what he has suggested. I'll paste that for your feedback, or anyone else- and thanks in advance for your help!

 

For a surveillance system at your home, I recommend the following:

1: 4 vandal-resistant miniature dome B&W cameras mounted at the locations> indicated on the attached diagram.

2. 1 digital video recorder, network capable, mounted in a locking enclosure> in the rafters of the garage.

3. The wiring and hardware necessary to connect these devices.>> In addition, you will need the following:

1. A 120VAC power source, either by an electrical extension cord or a hard-wired electrical outlet in the area that the digital recorder is installed. 2. A run of network-compatible wiring to connect the digital recorder into the household network.

3. The option of an RF encoder and related equipment to insert the video output from the digital recorder into the household cable television system to enable instant viewing on any television in the house. Per our discussions, the digital recorder should have in excess of four inputs to allow for future expansion. The camera in the backyard will be the most challenging for wiring routing, due to the distance from the recorder and the nature of the contruction of the house. The wiring may have to be surface-mounted inside a raceway or wiremold for concealment and protection from the elements. Due to state law, I cannot perform work or provide equipment valued at more than $2000 unless I'm a licensed contractor. Therefore, I propose the following> arrangement. I will provide the cameras, related wiring, locking enclosure, power supplies, labor, and necessary hardware to install the equipment. I will connect the equipment, set it up, and test it. Due to the cost of the digital recorder and your concerns about warranty issues, I recommend that you should obtain the recorder directly from the distributor. I can provide guidance and recommendations as to which recorder will meet your requirements. By obtaining the recorder directly from the distributor, especially if you use a credit card, you will be better protected. The cost structure is as follows: Vandal-resistant B&W camera @ $195 ea., which includes cabling and power supplies. Locking 16 ga. steel enclosure @ $25, which includes mounting hardware. Misc. hardware, mounting equip., and other supplies @ $100.Installation labor fee @ $250 for the work outlined above, which will include initial installation, connection, setup, and testing of the equipment including the digital recorder. I offer these options: RF encoder (1 chan.) @ $150, which includes power supply, signal combiner, and necessary wire to insert video output from recorder into house cable system. The encoder would be set to an empty channel past the currently used spectrum,usually chan 85 or higher.

 

Well that's it. I know that this individual is very capable of doing the job as the company I work for a huge Corporation and they chose the company out of any company. More importantly our work is banking related, so they can't do it on the cheap. This inidividual is the companies Lead Tech for our office which houses over 1000 people. That's it for now...

 

Surf