Isolated construction site monitoring

[belphegor 0]

We need to monitor a construction site in a remote location with no Internet connection. We found a good location for a camera from a third story window of an adjacent barn that overlooks the driveway but is not immediately visible. The reason for a camera is to identify vehicles uses for stealing construction materials.

 

The idea is to install a Mobotix M12D SEC with both lenses 135mm and to store the images in the camera's internal SD card and retrieve the card in case of an incident.

 

There would be no network and no server, just the camera and a power adaptor.

 

Do you think this is the right setup? Would you recommend a better solution?

 

Thank you for any help and keep the great work with this forum!

[Soundy 1]

I haven't used the Mobotix, so I can't comment on its specific suitability for capturing the images you need, but your concept is sound - if you don't need live monitoring or massive amounts of storage (I'm guessing at most, it would be a weekend before someone noticed the theft and went to check the video), then onboard storage keeps things compact and simple.

 

My only concerns would be the security of the camera itself (don't want it to walk off after the materials!), and that the location and angle would provided the needed view (you say the location is third story; will the angle be too sharp to see faces or car plates?)

[thewireguys 3]

Mobotix or VideoIQ will do the job.

 

Watch this video on VideoIQ.

 

http://www.thewireguys.tv/education

[belphegor 0]

Thanks for your encouraging comments!

The camera would be something like 3m / 10' off the ground, and with the 40m/120' distance to where it will be aimed, I think the angle should work. But that's a vital thing to check before we finalize the installation. It would be fitted inside a permanently left open frame, a bit like snipers who operates in cities do, since you aim at a distance the fact that the camera is a back in the room does not affect the usable field of view. That's so that nobody walks off with the camera itself. We'll also add some distractions and lame automatic lamps around the choke point so that thieves' attention will be attracted by something else.

The plan is to collect the images only after a theft.

[thewireguys 3]

Why not prevent the theft from happening?

[Soundy 1]

Easier said than done?

[thewireguys 3]

Easier said than done?

 

Not really

[Soundy 1]

How you gonna do that then? You know, without erecting a massive wall around the place, taking more time and money than the actual construction job itself?

[thewireguys 3]

That is what VideoIQ is designed to do.

[belphegor 0]

Why not prevent the theft from happening?

Excellent point of course! Well, people steal so many things, some of them can't be put under lock. You dig up a hole, people will come to steal excellent garden soil and replace it with garbage from another construction site. This happens all the time. When you have to change windows, for some time anybody can enter the site. So there is, unfortunately, a limit to preventing the theft. But we suspect these sorts of thieves are not the the brighest LEDs on the panel, and would probably use their own cars which they would drive up to the house. So if it happens and we can get a readable license plate, the cops should bag them easy.

[Soundy 1]

Is that that setup where the camera controls the paintball gun, then?

[Soundy 1]

Why not prevent the theft from happening?

Excellent point of course! Well, people steal so many things, some of them can't be put under lock. You dig up a hole, people will come to steal excellent garden soil and replace it with garbage from another construction site. This happens all the time. When you have to change windows, for some time anybody can enter the site. So there is, unfortunately, a limit to preventing the theft. But we suspect these sorts of thieves are not the the brighest LEDs on the panel, and would probably use their own cars which they would drive up to the house. So if it happens and we can get a readable license plate, the cops should bag them easy.

hahahaha, haven't heard that one before, I like it

[thewireguys 3]

Soundy watch the video and you will understand.

 

http://www.thewireguys.tv/education

[Soundy 1]

So I watched the video and I still don't get how this is going to prevent the theft in this instance...

 

There's no internet connectivity to send an alarm or signal.

 

It's an "isolated" site (per the subject line) so I'm assuming anyone who IS dispatched is going to take time to get there. We're not told HOW isolated, but it sounds like it's a ways out there.

 

The video poses the example of someone with multiple sites to cover with little manpower - in this case, there's ONE site, so if you're going to have on-staff security, you don't have to worry about them having other sites to patrol; you might as well just do away with the camera and have a full-time security guard.

 

I don't care how smart the analytics are, unless the camera turns into Optimus Prime, it's not going to STOP the theft.

[thewireguys 3]

Well what that video doesn't tell you is all you need is a Aircard and a smart phone. Camera detects rule violation and you get a email clip if the alarm video. You watch the video and call the police or you 2-way voice and talk to the perp on at the site and tell them the police are on the way. If you want to take it to the next level you can sign up for video monitoring or video verification and have the monitoring company handle everything.

 

Pro-active or Re-active solution it's up to you. But if you want to be Pro-active VideoIQ is the most cost effective solution for this setup.

[belphegor 0]

Yes, in our case we have all sorts of wild boars and roe deers so we'd be flooded with false alarms - no way to monitor each even triggered by camera. All we can try to achieve is deter thieves from coming (locked gates, promise of terrible karma if they steal, etc...) and then try to get a good view of their car. I don't think the cops would do much with a headshot only - too much work for them. But with the license plates, it's an easy win for their statistics.

[thewireguys 3]

Yes, in our case we have all sorts of wild boars and roe deers so we'd be flooded with false alarms - no way to monitor each even triggered by camera. All we can try to achieve is deter thieves from coming (locked gates, promise of terrible karma if they steal, etc...) and then try to get a good view of their car. I don't think the cops would do much with a headshot only - too much work for them. But with the license plates, it's an easy win for their statistics.

 

VideoIQ will not detect animals Mobotix will.

[Soundy 1]

That still doesn't address the "isolated" part... until Scotty comes back from the future and brings us the matter/energy transporter, police response still takes time. By the time they get there, the crooks are gone, and all you have left is the recorded video... so you're paying the extra for the analytics, wireless connection, etc. etc. just so you don't have to wait until the next morning?

 

Again, I still don't get how this STOPS the theft. The theft is still going to happen... and depending on how remote the site, is probably still going to be completed before anyone gets there.

[Guest]

Yes, in our case we have all sorts of wild boars and roe deers so we'd be flooded with false alarms - no way to monitor each even triggered by camera. All we can try to achieve is deter thieves from coming (locked gates, promise of terrible karma if they steal, etc...) and then try to get a good view of their car. I don't think the cops would do much with a headshot only - too much work for them. But with the license plates, it's an easy win for their statistics.

 

I would surprised if you managed to resolve licience plates in the dark with this set up at 40m. (1/2" CMOS, 25mm lens, aperture 2.5).

 

I could be wrong and would be interested in seeing the image if you go down this route.

 

I would suggest you use a box camera with an approriate lens and a professional IR illuminator.

 

What size is the licence plate?

 

Would you not also need another camera to show context otherwise all you have is a licience plate of a vehicle 'taking the wrong turn'?

 

Ilkie

[belphegor 0]

I would surprised if you managed to resolve licience plates in the dark with this set up at 40m. (1/2" CMOS, 25mm lens, aperture 2.5).

 

I could be wrong and would be interested in seeing the image if you go down this route.

 

I would suggest you use a box camera with an approriate lens and a professional IR illuminator.

 

What size is the licence plate?

 

Would you not also need another camera to show context otherwise all you have is a licience plate of a vehicle 'taking the wrong turn'?

 

Ilkie

 

Thanks for these very good points! First let me explain that the road that goes into the property actually passes right before the window with the camera, so I could aim it closer and have the license plate less than 10m away from the camera, although from a rather high angle. Mobotix lists its L135 Telephoto Lens as having 15° horizontal angle, 11° vertical angle, yielding an image width at a distance of 10 m of 2.6 x 1.9 m, that's about the width of the road in other words. Now for illumination, certainly there won't be enough in the dead of night, but if I'm not mistaken license plates are lit by the car and I'll have a couple of those garden lamps that light up when they sense movement. With 1MP and the relatively larger cells in the sensor, would that not be enough for license plate identification?

 

Now for the cops, you are right that just the image in itself is not incriminating enough to get a conviction, but we'll know the identity of the people who stole the goods, so the rest of the proof should be forthcoming and a search warrant possible - or so we hope!

[thewireguys 3]

That still doesn't address the "isolated" part... until Scotty comes back from the future and brings us the matter/energy transporter, police response still takes time. By the time they get there, the crooks are gone, and all you have left is the recorded video... so you're paying the extra for the analytics, wireless connection, etc. etc. just so you don't have to wait until the next morning?

 

Again, I still don't get how this STOPS the theft. The theft is still going to happen... and depending on how remote the site, is probably still going to be completed before anyone gets there.

 

Soundy Some one walks on the property and a alert is sent to the monitoring station. Monitoring station uses 2-way audio to say " hey you!! your trespassing the police are on there way. Everything you do is on video leave immediately" Person looks at speaker and then runs away with no damage done or property stolen. If the person stays the police are dispatched with the whole thing recorded.

 

 

Here is a demo clip without using 2-way audio.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=VideoIQ#p/u/33/iO_znZ2dikY

[tomcctv 187]

I would surprised if you managed to resolve licience plates in the dark with this set up at 40m. (1/2" CMOS, 25mm lens, aperture 2.5).

 

I could be wrong and would be interested in seeing the image if you go down this route.

 

I would suggest you use a box camera with an approriate lens and a professional IR illuminator.

 

What size is the licence plate?

 

Would you not also need another camera to show context otherwise all you have is a licience plate of a vehicle 'taking the wrong turn'?

 

Ilkie

 

Thanks for these very good points! First let me explain that the road that goes into the property actually passes right before the window with the camera, so I could aim it closer and have the license plate less than 10m away from the camera, although from a rather high angle. Mobotix lists its L135 Telephoto Lens as having 15° horizontal angle, 11° vertical angle, yielding an image width at a distance of 10 m of 2.6 x 1.9 m, that's about the width of the road in other words. Now for illumination, certainly there won't be enough in the dead of night, but if I'm not mistaken license plates are lit by the car and I'll have a couple of those garden lamps that light up when they sense movement. With 1MP and the relatively larger cells in the sensor, would that not be enough for license plate identification?

 

Now for the cops, you are right that just the image in itself is not incriminating enough to get a conviction, but we'll know the identity of the people who stole the goods, so the rest of the proof should be forthcoming and a search warrant possible - or so we hope!

 

 

live image of a m12. yes it could pic up a plate ..... not to shure about night time. on the live feed press 24hr to see recorded night view.

 

www.mobotix.ro/ro/camere_supraveghere_live_en_2447.html

[Guest]

I would surprised if you managed to resolve licience plates in the dark with this set up at 40m. (1/2" CMOS, 25mm lens, aperture 2.5).

 

I could be wrong and would be interested in seeing the image if you go down this route.

 

I would suggest you use a box camera with an approriate lens and a professional IR illuminator.

 

What size is the licence plate?

 

Would you not also need another camera to show context otherwise all you have is a licience plate of a vehicle 'taking the wrong turn'?

 

Ilkie

 

Thanks for these very good points! First let me explain that the road that goes into the property actually passes right before the window with the camera, so I could aim it closer and have the license plate less than 10m away from the camera, although from a rather high angle. Mobotix lists its L135 Telephoto Lens as having 15° horizontal angle, 11° vertical angle, yielding an image width at a distance of 10 m of 2.6 x 1.9 m, that's about the width of the road in other words. Now for illumination, certainly there won't be enough in the dead of night, but if I'm not mistaken license plates are lit by the car and I'll have a couple of those garden lamps that light up when they sense movement. With 1MP and the relatively larger cells in the sensor, would that not be enough for license plate identification?

 

Now for the cops, you are right that just the image in itself is not incriminating enough to get a conviction, but we'll know the identity of the people who stole the goods, so the rest of the proof should be forthcoming and a search warrant possible - or so we hope!

 

 

live image of a m12. yes it could pic up a plate ..... not to shure about night time. on the live feed press 24hr to see recorded night view.

 

http://www.mobotix.ro/ro/camere_supraveghere_live_en_2447.html

 

 

Thanks Tom,

 

Without seeing if this the lens size suggested is fitted and the camera set up is appropriate I would not comment either way.

 

But I would suggest that if this is the best the camera can do it would be doubtful if this this could pick up a US licience plate over any reasonable distance during the day and almost certainly not at night.

 

I think there might be more appropriate solutions if you are considering spending $1,000+ USD for kit

 

Ilkie

[tomcctv 187]

just on the live demo you dont have the zoom function. i would say it will pick up the plate in day. but the problem is when you need it most for this install.

 

for what the mobotix costs i would not go the ip route for this install. you could use 4-5 standard cameras for this install and cover alot more.

[Soundy 1]

That still doesn't address the "isolated" part... until Scotty comes back from the future and brings us the matter/energy transporter, police response still takes time. By the time they get there, the crooks are gone, and all you have left is the recorded video... so you're paying the extra for the analytics, wireless connection, etc. etc. just so you don't have to wait until the next morning?

 

Again, I still don't get how this STOPS the theft. The theft is still going to happen... and depending on how remote the site, is probably still going to be completed before anyone gets there.

 

Soundy Some one walks on the property and a alert is sent to the monitoring station. Monitoring station uses 2-way audio to say " hey you!! your trespassing the police are on there way. Everything you do is on video leave immediately" Person looks at speaker and then runs away with no damage done or property stolen. If the person stays the police are dispatched with the whole thing recorded.

 

 

Here is a demo clip without using 2-way audio.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=VideoIQ#p/u/33/iO_znZ2dikY

Still doesn't sound practical for this application. OP wants a tight shot on the approaching road. Someone in a car isn't going to hear the speaker. Using a wider view to capture a larger area won't yield the level of detail needed, so if the person ignores the voice and keeps going, you don't get usable video.

 

I'm sure it's a very wonderful and powerful system, but having grown up in an an area and layout very similar to what the OP describes, I don't believe it's a suitable solution for this application. (And BTW, where I grew up, there was no cell service 25 years ago, and there's not now... if the site in question is the same, you'd need a satellite system to get any kind of voice or data connection).