Help with License plate capture

[Bluzman23 0]

Hi All,

I have a home system, which I am looking to add some form of plate capture to. Can anyone recommend a good cam not looking to go full on nuts like the Extreme CCTV bad boy, just looking to have the abality to grab some plates . I currently have a speco tech CVC652-HZ which is a fixed zoom type cam I was wondering if anyone is familiar with it, or if it were capable of being used for my plate capture.

 

Also do I need to intergrate some form of software or do I just set up motion through the cam or DVR to just record the exact location the plate will be passing through?

 

Currently I have a 8 Channel everfocus Dvr model Ecor8D

 

Any Help or idea's would be great.

[cglaeser 0]

Are you trying to capture plates during the day only or do you need to capture at night also? What is the distance and angles (horizontal and vertical) from the camera to the plates?

 

Best,

Christopher

[Bluzman23 0]

All Good Questions which I have been pondering myself. I have lots of trees lining my block which are a horror for cam placement problems, but my plate cam idea is really to be used in october around halloween when the tress have thinned out. I would say I want day/ night capabilities. Distance to the plates can vary depending on where i mount my cam. The street is Parralel to my house so it makes it a bit difficult. I was thinking of mounting the cam or enclousure on a tree on my front lawn which would put me about 20 feet to the street . I would have to take some measurements to get the angles . My second option was mounting on a post just behind my fence in my back yard which would up the footage to about 60 feet.

 

I notice in my area there are red light cams which seem to be placed a decent distance back from the intersection, and look like there up a good 10 foot or more.

what is the standard if there is one ? And if i were to use the Speco cam I have laying around, I would probably need an IR illiuminator , or some other light source for the nightvision, unless the headlight or tailights are enough light for the capture.

[NotoriousBRK 0]

What state/country/province/whatever are you located in?

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

Do you just want a picture of the plates, or do you want to do anything with the information?

 

If you want to capture plates check out how they do it at Toll Gates or military check points and then ask yourself why it's done like that?

 

capturing a plate which somebody stole from another vehicle and put on theirs isn't of much use , capturing a plate without the context of the vehicle carrying it, nor the occupants is of very little value --- I presume this is a hobby!!

 

 

The point --- effective plate capture 1M Maximum height, 1 M maximum distance --- you can do it with increased margins, but decreased effectiveness as you go higher.

 

Edited June 11, 2011 by Guest

[cglaeser 0]

I was thinking of mounting the cam or enclousure on a tree on my front lawn which would put me about 20 feet to the street . I would have to take some measurements to get the angles . My second option was mounting on a post just behind my fence in my back yard which would up the footage to about 60 feet.

 

Go for the shortest distance and smallest horizontal/vertical angles.

 

Best,

Christopher

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

Again --- when you have defined the technical specification of the camera , and you have defined what you consider to be a good manufacturer. Buy the cheapest camera that meets the criteria.

 

The ONLY reason people find it necessary to ask for a camera recommendation is because they have not defined the technical specifications of the camera.

 

Try to write the technical specification for your camera:

 

Light sensitivity, special considerations such as backlighting, considerations such as IP 66, Explosion proof, tamper resistant, etc ....once you have done this ---- asking for a recommendation that's going to give you the right camera is pretty straight forward.

 

Nobody here could ever make a recommendation for a plate capture camera given the information provided here!

[tomcctv 187]

Nobody here could ever make a recommendation for a plate capture camera given the information provided here!

 

 

 

does experience not count.

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

Nobody here could ever make a recommendation for a plate capture camera given the information provided here!

 

 

 

does experience not count.

 

No ----- no amount of experience will ever replace either seeing the actual conditions under which the camera is expected to operate or getting an actual detailed camera specification from someone who has seen the conditions and environment.

 

Furthermore experience means nothing if we don't know if somebody just wants to record images of plates or wants to record plate details - actual characters.

 

Experience further will mean nothing if we have not established that this is just a for fun hobby, or has an actual requirement to pass the plate information on to a security enforcement agency for the purpose of law enforcement.

 

Or if you have not deciphered the degree of accuracy required.

 

It's a joke when somebody says I need to capture plates, and somebody else says --- buy this camera!!

[tomcctv 187]

20m or 60m with this camera ...... no problem.

 

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

License plate viewing is one of the most challenging aspects of surveillance --- especially if you are going to be facing headlights in the night time, creating such high contrasts that a lot of WDR cameras will not even be able to process.

 

 

Then you need to make sure you are using a progressive scan camera as opposed to an interlacing camera. The camera you have uses a 2:1 Interlace scanning method, so I'm not able to say how well it's going to handle charachter definition on a moving target.

 

Your reference to software integration - raised the possibility that you might be talking about number plate processing as opposed to straight forward viewing - am sure you are familiar with OCR technology when scanning documents on a home scanner ----- the text cannot be processed in any way, from a picture.

 

 

We have used this camera before with good results, in what I would call low to mid end application.

 

 

Some of these cameras are designed to handle the high contrast, and another design utilizes masking of headlights or very bright areas - effectively blacking out the head/tail lights.

 

The short answer is that that is not an ANPR LPR camera as far as I can see!

 

 

If you don't want to process the plate text, and you aren't going to be facing night time surveillance ---- you could set that camera up to get a good shot of the plate ------

[dvarapala 0]

I have an Arecont Vision AV1310 day/night camera with a Computar megapixel lens sitting in my office window. Capturing legible images of license plates is no problem during the day with this setup. As previously noted, the real challenge will be night time capture. You'll need lots and lots of good lighting to make it work. One way to deal with headlight glare is to use IR lighting and put a filter on your lens that blocks visible wavelengths while allowing IR to pass through; this approach will cut down on much of the glare; it's also more stealthy, which can be important in certain residential situations.

[tomcctv 187]

 

If you don't want to process the plate text, and you aren't going to be facing night time surveillance ---- you could set that camera up to get a good shot of the plate ------

 

 

 

 

thats interesting. that image was not taken with this camera.

 

 

 

 

it was taken with a camera of this spec. it was taken via a box camera with same spec as the CVC652-HZ

 

SPECIFICATIONS

 

Item Specification

Image sensor 1/4 type EXview HAD CCD

Number of effective pixels Approx. 440,000 pixels

Lens 18 x zoom, f=4.1 mm (wide) to 73.8 mm (tele), F1.4 to F3.0

Digital zoom 12 x (216 x with optical zoom)

Angle of view (H) 48 deg. (wide end) to 2.8 deg. (tele end)

Minimum working distance 35 mm (wide end) to 800 mm (tele end)

Sync system Internal/External (V-Lock)

Minimum illumination 0.7 lx (typical) (50 IRE)

S/N ratio More than 50 dB

Elctronic shutter 1s~1/1000s

White Balance Auto, ATW, Indoor, Outdoor, One-push, Manual

Gain Auto/Manual (-3 to 28dB, 2 dB steps)

AE control Auto,Manual, Priority mode, Bright, EV compensation, Back-light compensation

EV compensation -10.5 to +10.5 dB(1.5 dB steps)

Back-light compensation On/Off

Privacy Zone Masking On/Off (24 positions)

Flicker cancel --

Focusing system Auto (Sensitivity: normal, low), One-push AF, Manual, Infinity, Interval AF, Zoom Trigger AF

Picture effect E-Flip, Neg. Art, Balck & Whiter, Mirror Image

Camera operation switch Zoom tele, Zoom wide

Video output VBS: 1.0 Vp-p (sync negative), Y/C Output

Camera control interface VISCA (TTL signal level), baud rate: 9.6 Kb/s, 19.2Kb/s, 38.4 Kb/s, Stop bit: 1/2 selectable

Storage temperature -20 to 60 deg. C

Operating temperature 0 to 50 deg. C

Power consumption 6 V to 12 V DC, 1.6 W (motors inactive) 2.5 W (motors active)

Mass Appro x 225g

Dimensions (L)120mm x(W)62mm x (H)65mm

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

 

If you don't want to process the plate text, and you aren't going to be facing night time surveillance ---- you could set that camera up to get a good shot of the plate ------

 

 

 

 

thats interesting. that image was not taken with this camera.

 

 

 

 

it was taken with a camera of this spec. it was taken via a box camera with same spec as the CVC652-HZ

 

SPECIFICATIONS

 

Item Specification

Image sensor 1/4 type EXview HAD CCD

Number of effective pixels Approx. 440,000 pixels

Lens 18 x zoom, f=4.1 mm (wide) to 73.8 mm (tele), F1.4 to F3.0

Digital zoom 12 x (216 x with optical zoom)

Angle of view (H) 48 deg. (wide end) to 2.8 deg. (tele end)

Minimum working distance 35 mm (wide end) to 800 mm (tele end)

Sync system Internal/External (V-Lock)

Minimum illumination 0.7 lx (typical) (50 IRE)

S/N ratio More than 50 dB

Elctronic shutter 1s~1/1000s

White Balance Auto, ATW, Indoor, Outdoor, One-push, Manual

Gain Auto/Manual (-3 to 28dB, 2 dB steps)

AE control Auto,Manual, Priority mode, Bright, EV compensation, Back-light compensation

EV compensation -10.5 to +10.5 dB(1.5 dB steps)

Back-light compensation On/Off

Privacy Zone Masking On/Off (24 positions)

Flicker cancel --

Focusing system Auto (Sensitivity: normal, low), One-push AF, Manual, Infinity, Interval AF, Zoom Trigger AF

Picture effect E-Flip, Neg. Art, Balck & Whiter, Mirror Image

Camera operation switch Zoom tele, Zoom wide

Video output VBS: 1.0 Vp-p (sync negative), Y/C Output

Camera control interface VISCA (TTL signal level), baud rate: 9.6 Kb/s, 19.2Kb/s, 38.4 Kb/s, Stop bit: 1/2 selectable

Storage temperature -20 to 60 deg. C

Operating temperature 0 to 50 deg. C

Power consumption 6 V to 12 V DC, 1.6 W (motors inactive) 2.5 W (motors active)

Mass Appro x 225g

Dimensions (L)120mm x(W)62mm x (H)65mm

 

I never said it was! I used the two pictures to highlight the problems of night time plate capture ----pre-supposition always clouds rationality!

 

That Camera as I said is a low end application: This image comes from a box camera from the same manufacturer:

 

[tomcctv 187]

am total confused by your post.

 

 

first image, jetwiew

 

your camera that you use, busytrade

 

second eclips picture image , alibarba

 

 

do you not have a picture of the camera that has taken the view. the jetview image is taken with a camera that has them same spec as the spectra. as they both use the same manufactura.

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

am total comfused by your post.

 

 

first image, jetwiew

 

your camera that you use, busytrade

 

second eclips picture image , alibarba

 

 

do you not have a picture of the camera that has taken the view. the jetview image is taken with a camera that has them same spec as the spectra. as they both use the same manufactura.

 

Why would you be confused --- I am not brand promoting!

 

The first image highlights the high contrast levels involved in night time plate capture.

The second image from my favored IP/Analytics provider illustrates the specialized function of processing characters as opposed to images.

The third is an example of a camera we have used for low budget applications --- by the way it's manufactured by Lonrun Di-te in Guangzhou China, as is the last Image in the other post.

The animated image illustrates the technique of headlight masking.

 

I have no interest in selling a product here for this low level application and potentially low margin return --- am just taking the time to point out challenges of night vision plate capture.

 

I think the confusion arises from your tendency to post images to promote a product - hence your confusion when you imagine that's the sole purpose of posting images on the forum.

[cglaeser 0]

Nobody here could ever make a recommendation for a plate capture camera given the information provided here!

 

I think the veteran installers on this forum would agree we need to know the requirements in order to make a final recommendation. However, I think you are pushing a bit too hard on this ordering of requirements first, recommendations second. Most DIY who visit this forum speak in generalities and don't know what specific features to specify. It's often helpful to toss out this or that camera that may be close, discuss the features and benefits, help them flesh out the list of requirements, and then zero in on some final recommendations.

 

Best,

Christopher

[tomcctv 187]

I think the confusion arises from your tendency to post images to promote a product - hence your confusion when you imagine that's the sole purpose of posting images on the forum.

 

 

 

 

thats the confusion. the camera i posted is the camera the op has $300 worth. the post was will the camera do licence plates.

 

and yes it will same camera,

 

http://www.eaglevision1.com/images/indoorView.gif

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

Nobody here could ever make a recommendation for a plate capture camera given the information provided here!

 

I think the veteran installers on this forum would agree we need to know the requirements in order to make a final recommendation. However, I think you are pushing a bit too hard on this ordering of requirements first, recommendations second. Most DIY who visit this forum speak in generalities and don't know what specific features to specify. It's often helpful to toss out this or that camera that may be close, discuss the features and benefits, help them flesh out the list of requirements, and then zero in on some final recommendations.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

Either way you going to need to ask the same questions to help them flesh out the requirements aren't you? More so because they don't understand the concepts and requirements - you may need to ask more questions.

 

In fact I only have a few questions: What's the problem that drives you to want a camera? What will you do when you see the images or receive the alert you are hoping to see? What are the conditions under which you will need to obtain these images.

 

It is exactly all these half considered recommendations that have led to a situation where people are of the opinion that CCTV is something that can be done by any half witted person. This make a sale of one camera recommendation regardless of whether the person is safe in their home at night or not, is what has brought the CCTV industry to the state we are in ------- How many DIY installers of home burglar alarms do you see?

 

The answers to those questions make no technological demand -- My experience has been that most DIY have a widely distorted perception of what a camera can and cannot do - how many of them consider the size of the lens, how many proposals here have even touched on lens size for the application.

 

What is the point of your recommendation of anything - if it fails to satisfy the persons need in the end!

 

I live in a country where 17 armed bandits enter people's homes and slaughter the entire family as a pretty regurlar occurrence, home burglaries are rife, driveway hijackings are real and vehicle theft common place. How many DIY CCTV systems have contributed anything to these problems??? I have yet see one, that made any contribution to anything significant!

 

Just because you are giving advice free - should you give it any less thought? If somebody is afraid of being burgled while they are in the house and they think that putting up a 1/4" Sharp camera with a 3.6mm lens is going to save them ------ don't you need to expose the weaknesses in that thinking and make a suggestion that will really contribute to their safety !!

[Bluzman23 0]

WOW, I didn't know my Question was going to start a potential war.

Fist off I am doing this as a hobby ,Second I am a Licensed Master Electrican not a half wit, more like a 2/3rds wit.

Processing the plate text is not necessary, it would be cool, but for now not necessary.

At the basic level is the plate cam always recording or is it motion operated on a preset window thru the DVR?

if it's always recording then to me any cam should work as long as it has a view of the strret in such a way that it is parallel with the cars.

I am looking for a setup like a Red light cam , where I can set up some parameters and if a vechile passes thru it I get an image of there plate.

Capturing the vechile or occupants for the most part is taken care of already with other cams already in place.

I am looking to do this past the hobby for my holiday displays, I set up a large scale halloween display on my lawn and have had several items stolen and such over the past few years. I captured people and there van on cam but was unable to obtain a plate image for the police, which prompted me to think about plate capture stuff. I am not running a toll booth or boarder patrol station so the trellis over my roadway probably won't go over big the town, but would be highly effective in the capture I can see that.

I can list the specs of the Speco CVC652-hz if necessary but I think you guys have looked them up already. The image that was posted with the box cam 268x zoom is the speco camera that I have.

I think experience is a good thing it gives people insight on how to start to set up something or at the very least more information to research to gain a better understanding of how the system should work in the perfect world.

I am looking to first grasp the concept of how the plate capture cam operates, then I would know if the cams I currently have will work for the application. Ex: do I need a fast or slow shutter speed ?

Do i need Back light compensation, and if so is there different types or degrees

do I need IR illuminators, or a cam with IR leds built in, or No LEDS but still night capable like USAG INC. midnight cam

do i need to i nstall a large led lamp that will light up on motion and give ample lighting to the cam for the shot?

I was once told by someone that the speco cam I have was used for plate capture, not sure if it has the correct specs for it.

[tomcctv 187]

hi. see what happends when you leave your post for a while

 

the spectra camera is good with plates. made buy another company but renamed by the likes of jet and spec.

 

the only problem is hight and width you place your camera . but you only need to play to get it right.

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

@tomcctv ----- here's the camera that took that first picture

 

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

WOW, I didn't know my Question was going to start a potential war.

Fist off I am doing this as a hobby ,Second I am a Licensed Master Electrican not a half wit, more like a 2/3rds wit.

Processing the plate text is not necessary, it would be cool, but for now not necessary.

At the basic level is the plate cam always recording or is it motion operated on a preset window thru the DVR?

if it's always recording then to me any cam should work as long as it has a view of the strret in such a way that it is parallel with the cars.

I am looking for a setup like a Red light cam , where I can set up some parameters and if a vechile passes thru it I get an image of there plate.

Capturing the vechile or occupants for the most part is taken care of already with other cams already in place.

I am looking to do this past the hobby for my holiday displays, I set up a large scale halloween display on my lawn and have had several items stolen and such over the past few years. I captured people and there van on cam but was unable to obtain a plate image for the police, which prompted me to think about plate capture stuff. I am not running a toll booth or boarder patrol station so the trellis over my roadway probably won't go over big the town, but would be highly effective in the capture I can see that.

I can list the specs of the Speco CVC652-hz if necessary but I think you guys have looked them up already. The image that was posted with the box cam 268x zoom is the speco camera that I have.

I think experience is a good thing it gives people insight on how to start to set up something or at the very least more information to research to gain a better understanding of how the system should work in the perfect world.

I am looking to first grasp the concept of how the plate capture cam operates, then I would know if the cams I currently have will work for the application. Ex: do I need a fast or slow shutter speed ?

Do i need Back light compensation, and if so is there different types or degrees

do I need IR illuminators, or a cam with IR leds built in, or No LEDS but still night capable like USAG INC. midnight cam

do i need to i nstall a large led lamp that will light up on motion and give ample lighting to the cam for the shot?

I was once told by someone that the speco cam I have was used for plate capture, not sure if it has the correct specs for it.

 

anyway --- not sure if we can post this but here's a LPR tutorial, you should get a lot more value from that

 

http://www.licenseplaterecognition.com/ Hmmm....that only addresses the software application for text recognition.

 

Good old trusted Wikipedia is the best place for quoting many technical issues.

 

At the front end of any ANPR system is the imaging hardware which captures the image of the license plates. The initial image capture forms a critically important part of the ANPR system which, in accordance to the Garbage In, Garbage Out principle of computing, will often determine the overall performance.

 

License plate capture is typically performed by specialized cameras designed specifically for the task. Factors which pose difficulty for license plate imaging cameras include speed of the vehicles being recorded, varying ambient lighting conditions, headlight glare and harsh environmental conditions. Most dedicated license plate capture cameras will incorporate infrared illumination in order to solve the problems of lighting and plate reflectivity.

 

Many countries now use license plates that are retroreflective.[13] This returns the light back to the source and thus improves the contrast of the image. In some countries, the characters on the plate are not reflective, giving a high level of contrast with the reflective background in any lighting conditions. A camera that makes use of active infrared imaging (with a normal colour filter over the lens and an infrared illuminator next to it) benefits greatly from this as the infrared waves are reflected back from the plate. This is only possible on dedicated ANPR cameras, however, and so cameras used for other purposes must rely more heavily on the software capabilities. Further, when a full-colour image is required as well as use of the ANPR-retrieved details it is necessary to have one infrared-enabled camera and one normal (colour) camera working together.

Blurry images make OCR difficult or impossible. ANPR systems should have fast shutter speeds to avoid motion blur

 

To avoid blurring it is ideal to have the shutter speed of a dedicated camera set to 1/1000 of a second. Because the car is moving, slower shutter speeds could result in an image which is too blurred to read using the OCR software, especially if the camera is much higher up than the vehicle. In slow-moving traffic, or when the camera is at a lower level and the vehicle is at an angle approaching the camera, the shutter speed does not need to be so fast. Shutter speeds of 1/500 of a second can cope with traffic moving up to 40 mph (64 km/h) and 1/250 of a second up to 5 mph (8 km/h). License plate capture cameras can now produce usable images from vehicles traveling at 120 mph (190 km/h).

 

To maximize the chances of effective license plate capture, installers should carefully consider the positioning of the camera relative to the target capture area. Exceeding threshold angles of incidence between camera lens and license plate will greatly reduce the probability of obtaining usable images due to distortion. Manufacturers have developed tools to help eliminate errors from the physical installation of license plate capture cameras

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

Bluzman --- why not just try the camera you have and then build from there if any adjustments are needed.

 

However if you want to capture plates without text - get an LPR camera, if you need text get an ANPR camera system.

[mike_va 0]

A user named scruit had done some experimentation with this, e.g.

 

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=23765&hilit=scruit+license

 

I've done it successfully as an experiment in the daytime with an Axis P1344 and 60mm lens at 200ft, the camera is nice since it sets the exposure more towards the fast end. BTW this is with an auto iris lens and also through a piece of tinted plastic with 11% light pass-through.

 

If you go the IR route, CNB makes some reasonably priced units MIR1000 and 3000. I've not yet gotten it to work at night with the headlights. Obviously going with an IR pass filter and illumination this would take a fair amount of IR to get a good shutter speed at night at 200ft...

 

A lot of auto iris cams will default to 1/60 s if you use with an auto iris lens. I think one manufacturer had also recommended recording in 2CIF if you have that capability and are using an interlaced camera.

 

Good luck and I'm sure others would be interested to hear about your experiments and results.