Mac over POE

[cope 0]

I'm new to this forum so I don't know if my question has already been asked.

I want to use Macs on my cctv and POE cameras. I would like to set up and maintain the system on my tower and an IPad. I was wondering if anyone could help me with the this. I want to set up for 8 cameras. The cameras will be used in a cold climate inside and out. What should I use for switches etc.

[dahomes555 0]

The main component that will make this all happen for you is the DVR. Make sure to select a DVR that is compatible with Mac. Many are not.

 

Most DVRs are compatible with iPhone (and thus iPad). Before selecting a DVR, find out which app is required and download it. Most vendors will have a sample DVR that you can use to connect to your iPad or iPhone and see how it all works. That lets you "test drive" the DVR so to speak before you buy it to make sure that you like the interface and how it performs.

 

I am also a Mac guy, so making devices work with all Apple products is a big deal to me and my customers.

[cope 0]

I have been a MAC guy for a long time. Making this system working on a MAC is very important to me also. I would like to go POE for it's ease.

[dahomes555 0]

If you are going POE, you are looking at IP cameras.

 

POE honestly sounds a lot cooler than it really is. You can run power either over your Cat5 or Siamese cable and connect them to a power supply just as easily and a lot cheaper. POE is neat and clean, but it really give any advantage and costs a lot more.

[cope 0]

Is it better to just use baluns for powering up the IP cameras?

[cope 0]

Does anyone have a recommendation on a MAC DVR for 8 cameras.

[dahomes555 0]

No, baluns are typically for transmitting the video.

 

Here's what I typically use:

 

Blue/Blue-White: video (connect to balun)

All other solid colors: Positive power

All other striped colors: Negative power.

 

Twist the solids and the stripes together and connect them to a male power connector. Then you can cleanly connect the connector to the camera and power is done. Then obviously connect your balun to the camera and video is done.

 

POE just isn't really used in analog stuff much. You could tweak it to make it work, I suppose, but it isn't really practical. IP is more where IP would be used.

[cope 0]

Thank you. I have been told that digital is the way to go. That analog is old tech. Digital using cat5 to baluns? I hope I have that right, And an 8 port POE switch.

[cope 0]

Thank you   

dahomes555 for the wireing color code.

[thewireguys 3]

Gentlemen,

 

If your going IP I would recommend HD/megapixel. If your going IP you will not be using baluns you would be using switches with POE or POE injectors to send power to the camera. You could run separate power wire to the cameras if you don't have POE switches but POE is very useful and saves so much time for the install compared to 12/24 power supplies. Also more and more network devices can be powered with POE including VOIP phones and wireless access points.

 

Now for the MAC part. If your going all IP you will need to find VMS software that is compatible with MAC that you can install on your computer to act as a server (must add harddrives) or find a NVR that will sit on your network with client software that is compatible with MAC. If you run Parallels you can run a Windows based VMS/NVR.

 

Personally I think using a MAC for recording video using VMS software is a HUGE waste of money. Buy a cheap Windows machine use it as your VMS server and connect to it using your MAC as a client machine. Exacq has VMS software that will record on a server running Windows or Linux and the client software will run on Windows, Linux and MAC.

[dahomes555 0]

Gentlemen,

 

If your going IP I would recommend HD/megapixel. If your going IP you will not be using baluns you would be using switches with POE or POE injectors to send power to the camera. You could run separate power wire to the cameras if you don't have POE switches but POE is very useful and saves so much time for the install compared to 12/24 power supplies. Also more and more network devices can be powered with POE including VOIP phones and wireless access points.

 

Now for the MAC part. If your going all IP you will need to find VMS software that is compatible with MAC that you can install on your computer to act as a server (must add harddrives) or find a NVR that will sit on your network with client software that is compatible with MAC. If you run Parallels you can run a Windows based VMS/NVR.

 

Personally I think using a MAC for recording video using VMS software is a HUGE waste of money. Buy a cheap Windows machine use it as your VMS server and connect to it using your MAC as a client machine. Exacq has VMS software that will record on a server running Windows or Linux and the client software will run on Windows, Linux and MAC.

 

TheWireGuys is correct. You will only be using baluns if you are using analog cameras, as the baluns allow you to connect your Cat5 wire to your camera using BNC connection. If you are using an IP camera, then most will have a standard ethernet jack as the connection which, if using POE, will also power the camera.

 

TheWireGuys is also correct that if you are going IP, you will want to use 2MP or higher. Be warned, good IP cameras will cost a lot more money than analog. You may see some IP cameras that are not dramatically more expensive than analog, but they probably won't even be as good as their analog counterpart. Case in point, I have seen some IP cameras in customer's stores that only have 480x320 resolution, have no IR, and have a LUX of 1.5! That is a TERRIBLE camera! When I looked it up online, the price was $129. I can have an analog camera that will look a lot better than that for $60-70. So it isn't necessarily an issue of IP vs analog, but what the specs are within each type.

 

To say that analog cameras are "old" and "junk" as not accurate. Analog cameras still make up a large percentage of the CCTV market and still do a great job. Advances in firmware and software in DVRs makes them very flexible in terms of how they can be expanded and accessed. In the future, I think that most camera systems will be digital/IP based, but it will be a long, slow transition. If you aren't willing to spend the big bucks for the high end IP system now, you can make sure that you are future-proofing your system by using Cat5e or Cat6 for all your cabling and connect analog cameras with a DVR now. Then when either your budget allows or the pricing gets more competitive, you will already have the wiring infrastructure in place to upgrade to IP.

 

I also agree that hosting your recording software on a Mac is a waste of money and resources. Buy a cheap PC to be your video host and then make sure that the software is Mac compatible so that you can connect to the PC server to view and manage your video.

 

What is the application that the cameras will be used for?

[cope 0]

This installation will be in a post and beam house. The install is not easy since the wall panels can't be snaked. This is Y POE should be much easier and less noticable. The equiptment will subjected to very cold temps. I will have to keep the equiptment worm somehow. In somesort of heated box ( locked box ) and above freezing! Thanks for all the good info. It will greatly help me with this install!

[thewireguys 3]

Why not use dome cameras with built in heaters?

[cope 0]

Dome cameras with heaters is exactly what I want. Any good ones out there. As you can tell I am new to this and I want to do this right the first time. Everyones help has been great!

 

I would rather stay away from a PC based install. PC's have to many bugs and problems, thats Y I like Macs. I think using a DVR (Linux) is more stable for the base recording of the system. I'll use a large hard drive for storage in the DVR. My son is IT and I'm an electrican of 40 years so we have those 2 bases covered. We just need to know what is the right equiptment to use and in what order. Trial by error is not an option. If I have to set it up using a computer I would rather use a Mac. I can set it up using the MAC as a PC and flip to Mac for access. Not ideal, I would rather stay with a DVR that is set up and MAC access, go with POE due to the difficulty of running the wire and getting power at the camera locations. I don't know if there is a DVR out there that will do what I want and if their is, would anyone know a good one. So what I think I need in the correct order is Modem, DVR, something to power POE, like a ethernet switch for 8 cameras, Cat5e or 6, to an IP camera or if using analog a balun to analog camera. Will I need anything between the Cat5 and an IP camera to make the transition, or is it just a hard connection. (wirenuts) I thank everyone for this help. The use of analog cameras on Cat5e at first then switch over one at a time to HD is a good idea due to the cost of the new technology and my limited funds. I have at least one location HD would be nice. So their might be a mix at first.

[thewireguys 3]

If you wanna use a $3000 Mac where a $500 Windows machine will do exactly the same thing be my guest.

 

Also FYI you will not be use a DVR. DVR is for analog cameras a NVR/VMS is for IP cameras (which is what your talking about using)

 

MAC is very limited VMS support and I think you will be giving up a lot of important features that you would like to use a MAC as your recording device.

 

Like I said Exacq server will run on Windows or Linux and the Client software will run on Windows, Linux and Mac.

 

What is your budget for this project?

[cope 0]

HIK Vision makes a DVR that works on both analog and digital. I saw it at an ADI show last week. You only have to set it's software up to make the transition. One click. I don't want to use a PC.

My son works in IT fixing computers for a major defense contractor all day and he wouldn't own one except for a door stop. He has worked for Apple and owns only Apple. He is extremly familiar with both platforms. He has been doing it for 22 years. If I have to switch my Mac to configure the DVR as a PC I will. I will go all analog before going PC. I have read some articles on the web where people say don't go PC because not being a solid platform. Their are times when i will not have easy access to the system to fix it. This will be in a summer place. So traveling many miles to fix it because of a PC bug is not an option. I know there is software out there to view my cameras on an Ipod/Mac. I would just like to access it and set it up using one if possible. A 400 mile trip to fix a problem won't happen. Digital is going to take over just like it did in TVs so something is out there or will be. I would like to be ahead of the curve. Change is good!

[thewireguys 3]

HIK Vision makes a DVR that works on both analog and digital. I saw it at an ADI show last week. You only have to set it's software up to make the transition. One click. I don't want to use a PC.

My son works in IT fixing computers for a major defense contractor all day and he wouldn't own one except for a door stop. He has worked for Apple and owns only Apple. He is extremly familiar with both platforms. He has been doing it for 22 years. If I have to switch my Mac to configure the DVR as a PC I will. I will go all analog before going PC. I have read some articles on the web where people say don't go PC because not being a solid platform. Their are times when i will not have easy access to the system to fix it. This will be in a summer place. So traveling many miles to fix it because of a PC bug is not an option. I know there is software out there to view my cameras on an Ipod/Mac. I would just like to access it and set it up using one if possible. A 400 mile trip to fix a problem won't happen. Digital is going to take over just like it did in TVs so something is out there or will be. I would like to be ahead of the curve. Change is good!

 

You are talking about a Hybrid Unit.

 

I have been installing IP HD/Megapixel systems for years include small 1-4 channel systems in homes, township wide solutions for boroughs and police departments, and ski resorts with over 200 cameras. All running on Windows servers without any failures or baby sitting. When setup properly you will not have any issues. Good luck with your project.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Guest

[dahomes555 0]

Also FYI you will not be use a DVR. DVR is for analog cameras a NVR/VMS is for IP cameras (which is what your talking about using)

 

Not necessarily. It sounds like a hybrid dvr may be the best solution. It would give you, for example, 4 analog channels plus 4 IP camera licenses. So you could record a combination of analog and IP cameras in one unit. And since you are using cat5 for everything, when your budget allows you can just swap out the dvr for an NVR and swap out the analog cameras for IP ones.

[thewireguys 3]

DVR = Analog

 

Hybrid = Analog + IP

 

Tribrid = Analog + HDcctv + IP

 

VMS/NVR Analog + IP

 

99% of the time if you ask for a "DVR" you are going to get a analog DVR. Ask for a Hyprid and you will get a unit that supports analog and IP

[cope 0]

As it was explained to me was. If a DVR can go from analog to digital with just a click of the mouse, cameras can be changed over to digital one at a time. When the analog camera either dies or you just want to change over certain cameras. This way should make it easier to make the change over to digital. The market is so deep into analog it is way too costly to change all at once. This is how it was explined to me. Some people have told me to start out with analog due to the cheeper cost of the cameras and add on digital down the road when digital camera costs come down. I am from the generation that saw calculatos the size of and cost of cars. The more that were sold the $ and size were dropped. This market will see the same thing happen. Look at the cost of TVs. They need to be purchased and $ will drop.

[cope 0]

I'm kind of late on the posts but as dahomes555 stated a hybrid sounds right. Can these DVRs go 100% digital or can they only go like 4 qnalog and 4 digital on an 8 camera unit?

[cope 0]

Thank you !!  thewireguys for the breakdown on the difference between DVR NVR etc. that is very helpfull !!

[dahomes555 0]

I'm kind of late on the posts but as dahomes555 stated a hybrid sounds right. Can these DVRs go 100% digital or can they only go like 4 qnalog and 4 digital on an 8 camera unit?

 

Going 100% digital is not a DVR. It would be an NVR or VMS. Anytime that a DVR is used that means that it is either 100% analog or analog/digital hybrid. But if you want 100% digital then you won't be using a DVR.

[cope 0]

I want a non computer based control unit for reliability. Re-booting or a system that I have to maintain on premises will not work due to my distance from the system. If that means a hybrid unit so be it. Would that be my only option. Assuming IP cameras are to be used.

[tomcctv 187]

Hi. standalone or hybrid (if you wish to use ip cameras) both can be connected via cat5 and both can be powered via the cat5

 

like has already been said going with mac you will be limited. but some hybrids and standalones dvrs will allow you to control via your mac.

 

qvis recorders are mac compatable avrs can also be controlled via mac using apps.

 

the question is what do you want to protect