central recording system or multiple NVRs

[jeromephone 6]

We are working with a customer who has multiple buildings and most have analog systems they are switching over to IP on all new installs. They want to have all the recording in one building for the entire company. Is this the way to go? I am concerned that a network failure would leave them with no coverage. For instance this is a hosiptal the er has 30 some cameras and they have a local dvr which is accessable via the network. If the network goes down they still have coverage and would have if they were recoding to an NVR in the same building but not if the server was located in another building 5 miles away that had a cable cut or whatever. What are our reccommendations?

[ssmith10pn 0]

If the network in a hospital goes down they have much bigger problems than video.

 

I have a 3 hospital campus with servers in the data centers at each location. But some of the buildings are off site with no servers in place. They have a 10-20 gig pipe to each location.

 

Is the hospital going to provide the infrastructure?

[hardwired 0]

Enterprise level NVR software will allow the option of configuring secondary failover servers for just critical cameras at a individual site (or all of them, depending on how much you want to spend).

 

You could use a small(er) server at each site for emergency failover recording (only a short archive would usually be necessary), while having cameras normally recorded at a larger central server site.

 

We are moving a hospital campus we manage in that direction, using encoders for analog (all new cams are IP), and using VLAN's on their network (ssmith10pn is right, though, network failure at a major hospital is rare, and an extreme repair priority for IT staff).

[jeromephone 6]

The have a large pipleine fiber to all sites and fiber throughout the buildings. agreed that network down video is probably the least of their troubles and they would have all hands on deck to correct the issues,

 

What systems are you using for failover? I can see where just a couple of days at most local storage would be needed. What so you reccommend for an overall mgmt system. We currently have Geovison in place but probably will be looking at something else. I also envision a video wall that will allow 24/7 monitoring, right now security has the ability to monitor all the cameras but they also are out and about more than they are watching cameras.

[ljarrald 0]

do NVRs not record locally as well as to a NAS?

 

hence the Network Video Recorder

[thewireguys 3]

Not many VMSs can record directly to a NAS device. Most can record to iSCSI box. If you get a NAS that supports iSCSI you will be good to go.

 

I would find out what the customer wants. For our larger customers they have requested to have all storage/servers located in the same location. These customers have be single sites but over very large properties.

 

For a multi site customer I would recommend servers at each location so if the WAN/leased line went down they would still have recording.

 

I have also found it's best to give the customer both options and let them make the decision.

[hardwired 0]

It depends on how a VMS does it's archiving, as to what kind of storage type you need to use.

 

Milestone can archive to a NAS, it does multistage recording where the first day of recording goes to a local fast drive, then it archives in a second stage that can go to another local directory, or a NAS.

 

Avigilon (and Exacq) do their archiving in a single stage, hence the need for fast block-level storage. However, most large installs I'm doing have had direct attached (SAS) storage arrays anyway, so either VMS will work in that case.

 

Or, as Wireguys mentioned, iSCSI will give you block-level storage over a LAN, as well.

 

For large installs, Avigilon is my first choice, although Milestone has many nice features, as well. We've been Milestone (and Exacq, and Panasonic I-pro, and Arecont, and Pelco, and Acti, and Galaxy access, and RS2 access, yada, yada, etc.) dealers for quite a few years, although we've been choosing Avigilon more and more, recently.

[Soundy 1]

I've been doing something along these lines with Vigil hybrids: the base model comes with a 1TB internal data drive in addition to a 250GB system/exports/backup drive... there's an option in the software to define one or more "alternate" storage locations, so if the primary storage goes offline (failed disk, for example), it will use the alternate location(s).

 

So on one client's sites, we've been using multi-TB RAIDs (typically right now, 8x2TB, configured RAID6+hotspare), connecting it via iSCSI, then using that as the ONLY primary data destination. The internal data drive is then switched to an "alternate" target. This way, data is normally recorded ONLY to the array, and if the array goes down, or is disconnected, or the network goes down, the system will record internally until the array returns.

 

Something like this might be suitable for your needs, all sites having one or more DVRs/NVRs as required, all writing primarily to the remote mass storage via network, but all with the capability to record internally should the connection fail.

[thewireguys 3]

@Soundy that is a nice feature. What is the max number of cameras you have used when you are using iSCSi for storage?

[Soundy 1]

The last completed system was 31 channels (on a 32-channel hybrid)... three of them 2MP IP cams, the rest analog. When I first set it up, I left all analog channels recording D1@30fps (default for the 960fps H.264 hardware compression card)... the NAS handled it all no problem. Had to dial it all WAY down when we found we were only getting 20 days' retention out of 9.8TB (client wants 90 days )

 

BTW, just pulled a network graph of that system... it's an upscale restaurant, Saturday night, pretty busy right now, so there's plenty of movement and probably the max you'll see in network traffic...

 

 

 

The site we're finishing up now is 30 cameras, one of them 2MP... same setup.

[ssmith10pn 0]

We have 3 servers writing to a EMC Celerra NS-480 over HBA cards with 50TB on the NS480.

 

Each server has 5TB of onboard RAID 5 storage and Windows sees the NAS as just another drive letter.

 

Those three servers have an incoming data stream of 180 to 250mbps 24/7/365

 

Monday we start testing a Virtual Server with 100% NAS storage and for the first part of the test there will be 24 One MP cameras at 30 FPS. 10 of them being pulled across town on the 20gig fiber connection.

[Soundy 1]

^TECH PORN!

[ssmith10pn 0]

^TECH PORN!

 

 

I need to get a shot with the covers off.

 

 

[ssmith10pn 0]

 

 

 

[jeromephone 6]

well thanks for the input I am meeting with these folks on Tuesday and will post a report. I have the feeling they already have make up their minds about having everything at one location but I am going to give them the option. I will look into the the various enterprise software packages. I am not a fan of milestone but can work with it. The other thing I thought about is we could leave analog servers in place for a period of time and just use oe in two out powered splitters to send a video stream to the encoder as well as the current systems.

[ssmith10pn 0]

well thanks for the input I am meeting with these folks on Tuesday and will post a report. I have the feeling they already have make up their minds about having everything at one location but I am going to give them the option. I will look into the the various enterprise software packages. I am not a fan of milestone but can work with it. The other thing I thought about is we could leave analog servers in place for a period of time and just use oe in two out powered splitters to send a video stream to the encoder as well as the current systems.

 

Most DVR's already have a spot out for each camera.

[hardwired 0]

If you are taking over a lot of analog channels, Avigilon will be far less cost. The encoders are quite reasonable, and they only use one licensing channel; for each four channel encoder.

[ssmith10pn 0]

If you are taking over a lot of analog channels, Avigilon will be far less cost. The encoders are quite reasonable, and they only use one licensing channel; for each four channel encoder.

 

 

Your going to get all the Avigilon haters stirred up.

[hardwired 0]

If you are taking over a lot of analog channels, Avigilon will be far less cost. The encoders are quite reasonable, and they only use one licensing channel; for each four channel encoder.

 

 

Your going to get all the Avigilon haters stirred up.

I'm certainly not married to any one product or brand; I use what I think is best for a particular situation, and I'll pass along my opinion for other people, as well (you know what opinions are like, right? )

 

I've got my own particular perspective of product selection based on over fifteen years of experience in this business, but I'm not bold enough to make the statement that my word is gospel for every situation.

 

For example, we specialize in large industrial, healthcare, and food processing/Agricultural, because that is a target market for my area.

 

We don't do (with rare exceptions) residential, mini-markets, etc., and don't plan to. It simply doesn't fit who we are as a company, and we don't expect to be able to provide what these markets are usually looking for (often, lowest price, with light consideration for product quality, or aftersales support).

 

I know that there are products (and installation companies) out there that are are a fine fit for those markets, a reasonable mix of quality and pricing, and I'm not out to bash them, they simply don't fit for our target customers. Does that make them bad? No, like anything else, you simply have to choose the proper products, and support them well, to maintain your customers, and grow.

 

Avigilon, Milestone, Panasonic, and other products like them, fit OUR target market, so that's why I choose them. It doesn't mean they are the best choice for everyone.