MB1983 0 Posted January 26, 2012 What kind of camera would you recommend for use over a blackjack table with heights ranging from 6 feet to the table and 30 feet to the table Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SDM Group 0 Posted January 26, 2012 analogue - Bosch flexidome IP - Axis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted January 27, 2012 Where's survtech these days? This is right up his alley Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irishkc_1 0 Posted January 27, 2012 Analog: DeView Pixim Dome IP: Avigilon 5Mega Dome Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sawbones 0 Posted January 27, 2012 Where's survtech these days? This is right up his alley Yup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 187 Posted January 27, 2012 Where's survtech these days? This is right up his alley i was just going to say the same thing. his last visit was wednesday so he must just be taking it easy. What kind of camera would you recommend for use over a blackjack table with heights ranging from 6 feet to the table and 30 feet to the table survtech is your guy to talk with. card tables is both good image and you also need the speed (good fps) but its all about what you have inplace at the moment are you adding or a new install Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brianparkes 0 Posted January 28, 2012 I manage a surveillance department in a casino. Are you looking to put in fixed view cameras or PTZ cameras? For your fixed straight down shot, most of the cheaper cameras on supercircuits.com work just fine. For the 30 foot shots, you might want to get ones with a little better resolution, and make sure to get a lense with something like 5-50mm range on it. I would strongly encourage you to avoid auto-iris lenses for these shots. The straight down shot is usually the best, but you'll have to tweak with it to see where you are getting reflective glare from your lighting (a casino nightmare everywhere I've worked). Make sure to put some cards on the tables while adjusting your cameras. Also, the best way to adjust those cameras is to drag one of your monitors out there to plug into the camera while you are adjusting it, instead of using a walkie talkie to talk to the other person in the surveillance room. Depending on what state you are in for regulations, you will probably want to put 2 cameras on each table (wide shot that goes roughly from table rail to rail, and one "tight" shot that is just wider than the betting spots) to get the best coverage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 187 Posted January 28, 2012 I manage a surveillance department in a casino. casino with your products wots up sales slow ??? it is hard to sell cheap products at stupid high prices Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 27, 2012 I have been away from this forum for months and will likely remain that way (larry knows why). Notice I deleted my avatar, location and signature. That said, we place our fixed cameras over the player opposite the dealer. We just started replacing all of our older (and newer) Pelco CCC1300 and C10 series with a camera that we've found is able to show card values and suits and chip stack values 100% of the time if lensed, aimed / focused and set up properly. It is the inMotion 11S3N2D. Lens is chosen based on distance from the table - either 2.8-12mm or 5-50mm manual iris (auto-iris is not necessary for casino interior shots). Make certain you switch the camera from "Auto" to "Color" and turn AGC off. NEVER use AGC on table games or other critical shots!!! Adjust zoom so that the table width just fills the screen and touches the bottom of the screen and the dealer is at the top of the picture. You don't want the camera over the center of the table because it makes it impossible to see individual chips in a stack - just the top of the stack. The slight angle achieved by locating the camera over the player opposite the dealer allows you to see the edges of all chips in a stack. That location also allows you to see the dealer's hands; a must in casinos. Many casinos shoot the tables from behind the dealer. That, IMO, is a mistake. It is very important to see the dealer's hands. Misdeals, mis-pays and dealer/player collusion are among the most common problems. If you want to see the players, use a PTZ located on the opposite side of the pit or pit overview camera(s). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nDAlk90 0 Posted February 27, 2012 Nice to see you Suvtech! Question: Do casinos use Siamese RG59 for all the cameras or you use balun and Cat5e? (We had some interference in Cat5e from electrical induced noise... ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 27, 2012 Rarely. Approximately 60-70% is passive-passive UTP plus 18/2 power. The balance is RG59 plus 18/2 power. The reasons for not using siamese are that power supplies are often in a somewhat different location from our UTP punchdown blocks where the 4-pair is punched down to 25-pair backbones and because I abhor couplers (barrels) - 3 potential single-points-of-failure for each barrel. We haven't experienced crosstalk from AC power; probably because we don't run UTP near unshielded power cables. Coax is just as, if not more, likely to pick up AC crosstalk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nDAlk90 0 Posted February 27, 2012 Cat5e is such a pain though... Customer moves the DVR two inches.... snaps a wire from the balun... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssmith10pn 0 Posted February 29, 2012 Cat5e is such a pain though... Customer moves the DVR two inches.... snaps a wire from the balun... You terminate the cat5 to a patch panel, convert to BNC and run jumpers to the DVR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dustmop 0 Posted March 1, 2012 Cat5e is such a pain though... Customer moves the DVR two inches.... snaps a wire from the balun... In the casino world, all our recording is rack mounted, so no worries of movement for us But the others are correct: punch the cat5/6 from the cameras into a 110 block or a patch panel, then jumper from that to the DVR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nDAlk90 0 Posted March 1, 2012 In the casino world, all our recording is rack mounted, so no worries of movement for us But the others are correct: punch the cat5/6 from the cameras into a 110 block or a patch panel, then jumper from that to the DVR. I agree with you completely... In the casino world somethings are done a little differently... I think though that most people however just use those cheap baluns which plug into a dvr. Those are a real pain (in my opinion). Move the dvr a little and you can relatively easily snap one of the wires which connect to it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssmith10pn 0 Posted March 1, 2012 I agree with you completely... In the casino world somethings are done a little differently... No they just do it the RIGHT way. The way it should be done anywhere. Solid copper should be terminated to a permanent fixed location. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted March 3, 2012 Yes. If you punch the camera cables down to a patch panel and use stranded patch cables like these, you will avoid those issues. 10ft USA-Made Cat5E 350 MHz Stranded Snagless Patch Cable - Gray You can also buy stranded CAT5e cable in bulk and run it from a 110 or even a 66 punchdown block to the baluns. Stranded CAT5e cable is not much more expensive than solid CAT5e, typically around a 10% premium. For that matter, since analog over UTP is quite forgiving about twist integrity, you can even use wire "beans" to splice stranded cable to solid without detrimentally affecting the video, thus avoiding the need for punchdown blocks, though their use is recommended. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted March 3, 2012 Move the dvr a little and you can relatively easily snap one of the wires which connect to it... Only if you're a complete klutz putting them together. Be gentle stripping the wires, and there's no reason then should break without a LOT of abuse. Or use tool-less baluns, so you just insert the un-stripped wires and snap down the clip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nDAlk90 0 Posted March 3, 2012 Only if you're a complete klutz putting them together. Very Nice Soundy! You must lack experience with Baluns to make such a foolish comment... I didn't expect that from you... If you use a Balun like this then yes you can move the dvr and minimize damage as it has a lead which will move instead of the connection... Most baluns I see used are the ones without the lead. These can damage the connection easily if customer moves the dvr... I still cant believe you said that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted March 3, 2012 Only if you're a complete klutz putting them together. Very Nice Soundy! You must lack experience with Baluns to make such a foolish comment... I didn't expect that from you... We're using Cat5 with baluns almost exclusively now, and have been for a couple of years. I have *literally* hundreds of installed baluns out there and could count on one hand the number of wire breaks. Plain and simple: be gentle stripping the wire, and it won't break without a LOT of abuse. If you use a Balun like this then yes you can move the dvr and minimize damage as it has a lead which will move instead of the connection... Most baluns I see used are the ones without the lead. These can damage the connection easily if customer moves the dvr... I still cant believe you said that... We started using baluns *regularly* when it became seriously cost-effective, starting with these that we got for $13/pr.: Then we started getting these for $8/pr. (they're even cheaper now), and never looked back: Both are GEM branded (www.gemelec.com). The tool-less ones are nice, but substantially more expensive. I repeat: be gentle stripping the wire, and it won't break without a LOT of abuse. If you're having that many issues with the wire breaking, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. Sorry, I don't know how to sugar-coat that for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nDAlk90 0 Posted March 3, 2012 I repeat: be gentle stripping the wire, and it won't break without a LOT of abuse. If you're having that many issues with the wire breaking, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. Sorry, I don't know how to sugar-coat that for you. We don't have a lot of breaking but more then with RG59... Again... Everything is relative right... Customers sometimes move DVR's to clean or to extract video... More breaking baluns then broken RG59 connections right? But I do like the suggestion from survtech and ssmith10pn of patching cat5e into a 110 block and then switching it over to stranded wire or RG59... That's a good suggestion... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssmith10pn 0 Posted March 4, 2012 http://www.nvt.com/assets/en-us/1613_datasheet_en-us.pdf http://www.nvt.com/assets/en-us/16ps10_datasheet_en-us.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted March 4, 2012 Customers sometimes move DVR's to clean or to extract video... More breaking baluns then broken RG59 connections right? I've seen more issues with octopus cables breaking, since they're usually flimsy little wires too... but even that is very rare. And there's always options like above... or the ones we've been using: First site we used these one, we ran into a patchbay first... second time, we just terminated all the runs in RJ-45 plugs and went straight into the VPS (due mainly to space restrictions in the rack). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WTFool 0 Posted March 12, 2012 http://www.nvt.com/assets/en-us/1613_datasheet_en-us.pdf http://www.nvt.com/assets/en-us/16ps10_datasheet_en-us.pdf That 2nd picture there is an active hub. We expanded a 2nd floor to our casino and used the NVT active hubs and PV or PVD baluns at each camera. It has worked pretty well for us so far BUT i did have one entire hub flake out on me last week. NVT holds a lifetime warranty on all of their products. The problem occured at 8 a.m. local time and i got on the phone right away. I swear to god i had another unit on property by 3:30 p.m. I don't know how they did it but NVT won me over for life right there. As far as table games go i agree 100% with survtech, do not place your cameras over the dealers shoulder, nor directly overhead of the table, get some sort of angle from the players side of the table to get some depth perception on chip stacks. As of right now i use Honeywell box cameras HD5 series. They have the option for color or BW. I tend to favor B/W just because of how clean the shots stay whereas i've had difficulty getting good focus out of my color cameras due to the aweful lighting on our property. I wrap these cameras in a Pelco df5-1 can/dome as i have yet to find any alternative houseing that i like. the df5 can be tight with certain baluns but it gives me the best range of motion since once a dome has landed it won't be moving due to the way our ceiling is designed, we have very few drop tiles, most of what i do are pendants from poles or hard lid ceilings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
