Recommendation for Custom Camera Setup?

[scottl31 0]

Hi,

 

My boss has asked me to get some info and it's taking forever (he pays me by the hour). My research on this subject has been dizzying and overwhelming. There is just too much stuff out there to be able to sift through and make any kind of educated choice. So I found this place and thought I'd ask here.

 

We would like to set up cameras around the office so that when motion is detected, it will call his iPhone and allow him to see and speak back and forth with the "intruder", or from his home computer. He wants to see who is coming and going and when, among those who have access codes to the monitored security system, as well as if a burglar comes through a 3rd floor window.

 

We would like wireless cameras that have an ethernet port with POE so we could use them anywhere in the office depending on how close a switch or power etc. is. Continuous live viewing over the iPhone/computer would also be desirable for this or if he ever wanted to check in on the office to make sure we all aren't goofing off.

 

The thing that makes this a bit of a pain (and out of my tech knowledge) is that he also wants to have an outdoor camera pointed at the parking lot which is across the street and 1-2 doors down, maybe 150-200 feet away from the nearest corner of our building.

 

He wants to be able to monitor without needing to pay a 3rd party service. We have static IP's, web servers etc. so I think a DNS service wouldn't be needed.

 

Anybody know if there are any off the shelf systems that do this, or any custom assemblages you can recommend? As for cost, I'm not sure he'd want to spend $500 per camera, but not go too cheap either.

 

I'd very much appreciate any help on this. Just reading here for an hour has my head about to explode.

 

Thanks very much,

Scott

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

We would like to set up cameras around the office so that when motion is detected, it will call his iPhone and allow him to see and speak back and forth with the "intruder", or from his home computer.

this is a bad idea - his phone will be going off all night. if they're ir cameras, every bug flying past will set it off. car headlights through the window will set it off. it will take him until about 2am the first night it's running to get sick of it and throw his phone through a wall.

 

a better solution would be to tie into motion sensors or even into the alarm system, so the phone alerts are activated only be an actual person, or by the alarm system going off.

 

He wants to see who is coming and going and when, among those who have access codes to the monitored security system, as well as if a burglar comes through a 3rd floor window.

what he really wants is a proper dvr system with cameras monitoring the entry points or keypad locations, so he can see who's entering what codes when... ideally something that can interface with the access control systems so the two datasets can be sychronized.

 

We would like wireless cameras that have an ethernet port with POE so we could use them anywhere in the office depending on how close a switch or power etc. is.

don't forget that no camera is truly wireless - you still have to power it. there's no point having wireless if you're using poe - at that point you're already plugged into the network anyway.

 

unless you're trying to catch cleaners going into people's desks or something, there's no reason to be moving cameras around. determine the key coverage locations and just mount the cameras there and be done with it.

 

Continuous live viewing over the iPhone/computer would also be desirable for this or if he ever wanted to check in on the office to make sure we all aren't goofing off.

almost all systems these days support live viewing... some will push alerts and video to the client app when an alarm happens, some will allow playback as well. i don't recommend *continuous* live viewing as that will chew up his iphone's data plan within a week or two.

 

The thing that makes this a bit of a pain (and out of my tech knowledge) is that he also wants to have an outdoor camera pointed at the parking lot which is across the street and 1-2 doors down, maybe 150-200 feet away from the nearest corner of our building.

this is probably the easiest part, as long as there are no obstructions to the view. a proper camera with a suitable lens is required, you won't have much success with a cheap packaged system here.

 

Anybody know if there are any off the shelf systems that do this, or any custom assemblages you can recommend? As for cost, I'm not sure he'd want to spend $500 per camera, but not go too cheap either.

there are no package systems that will fit *all* the requirements. a custom design is almost always your best bet, but will require far more info than you've provided. actual layouts of the site, the floorplans, the location of the parking lot (a google maps satellite view usually helps), etc. are necessary (if anyone claims to be able to sell you something without seeing this, run screaming).

[bigglebowski 0]

Just reading here for an hour has my head about to explode.

 

 

Wait until you buy a bunch of stuff and try to put the system together and make everything work correctly with good results.

 

Not saying you cant do it but you may have A LOT more research ahead of you before you get a firm grasp of how to do this. Why not have someone provide you with an estimate that meets your needs and see if you think you can replicate the quote.

[scottl31 0]

Just reading here for an hour has my head about to explode.

 

 

Wait until you buy a bunch of stuff and try to put the system together and make everything work correctly with good results.

 

Not saying you cant do it but you may have A LOT more research ahead of you before you get a firm grasp of how to do this. Why not have someone provide you with an estimate that meets your needs and see if you think you can replicate the quote.

 

I'm not worried about how to put stuff together and make it work, and I am the network admin here as well.

 

What I'm hoping to find out is what combo of equipment will do what we want and what to also avoid.

 

Thanks,

Scott

[scottl31 0]

Some of the systems/companies I've come across here and elsewhere which seem to have some/most of the features we want are:

 

Lorex

Swann

X10

Q-See

D-Link

DropCam

 

Can anyone say if any of these are any good, or which one(s) to definitely avoid? If there is another one I should look into that I have not listed, that would be helpful also

 

Any experience with any of these, good or bad would be very appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Scott

[bigglebowski 0]

Some of the systems/companies I've come across here and elsewhere which seem to have some/most of the features we want are:

 

Lorex

Swann

X10

Q-See

D-Link

DropCam

 

Can anyone say if any of these are any good, or which one(s) to definitely avoid? If there is another one I should look into that I have not listed, that would be helpful also

 

Any experience with any of these, good or bad would be very appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Scott

 

Those brands are what you might consider for residential applications, not saying they wont work for you, but they are less of a commercial solution. What do you plan on using to record and manage your cameras an NVR (hw or sw) or a VMS system. Look into Aviglon, Exacq, Milestone and see what cameras they support and the brands you see supported among all solutions are the ones you want to look into. Then again brands like Axis, Acti etc have software solutions that will do all you asked for and more for no additional costs. The only flaw with that is you will be stuck with that brands cameras. If most of your cams are indoor and there will be good lighting available then your will have unlimited options to choose from.

 

Some people on here really like the Q-See brand, particularly the ones made by a company called Dahua because of their good picture on an inexpensive camera. This brand may be less likely to be fully supported by the better software solutions.

[scottl31 0]

Some of the systems/companies I've come across here and elsewhere which seem to have some/most of the features we want are:

 

Lorex

Swann

X10

Q-See

D-Link

DropCam

 

Can anyone say if any of these are any good, or which one(s) to definitely avoid? If there is another one I should look into that I have not listed, that would be helpful also

 

Any experience with any of these, good or bad would be very appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Scott

 

Those brands are what you might consider for residential applications, not saying they wont work for you, but they are less of a commercial solution. What do you plan on using to record and manage your cameras an NVR (hw or sw) or a VMS system. Look into Aviglon, Exacq, Milestone and see what cameras they support and the brands you see supported among all solutions are the ones you want to look into. Then again brands like Axis, Acti etc have software solutions that will do all you asked for and more for no additional costs. The only flaw with that is you will be stuck with that brands cameras. If most of your cams are indoor and there will be good lighting available then your will have unlimited options to choose from.

 

Some people on here really like the Q-See brand, particularly the ones made by a company called Dahua because of their good picture on an inexpensive camera. This brand may be less likely to be fully supported by the better software solutions.

 

Thanks for the answer. Great stuff.

 

I don't know what I plan on using to record and manage the cameras. I assumed I would get whatever the best offering was from whatever company I got the cameras from.

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

Those brands are what you might consider for residential applications, not saying they wont work for you, but they are less of a commercial solution.

that's a polite way of saying "they're toys".

 

Some people on here really like the Q-See brand, particularly the ones made by a company called Dahua because of their good picture on an inexpensive camera. This brand may be less likely to be fully supported by the better software solutions.

+1 for dahua as a lower-cost option... the trick is finding a suitable reseller outside of china, as dahua require resellers to re-brand their equipment... so it will almost always have a different name on it.

 

where are you located?

[shockwave199 0]

What you should really be doing is gathering info on perhaps three installers, have them come and walk the property and give you an estimate. Choose the highest rated one, not just the lowest price. If you don't really know anything about installing, here's some likely scenarios if you do it yourself-

 

- You'll buy cheap crap that won't work

- You'll buy expensive stuff and you won't get the most out of it

- Either way you'll be installing it all and YOUR ass will be on the line

- You'll curse the day you took this on when the installing gets tough- and it will

- You'll be the one who has to keep after it, maintain it, and fix everything always

- The words 'I thought you knew what you were doing'- get used to hearing that

- Thousands will be spent with marginal results- that works against your job security

 

Study up here and read so you're not completely ignorant when you interview installers. That's fine. But let professionals install it- my opinion. It seems easy to do, and yet it's never completely straight forward. You're gonna spend the bosses money either way. Spend it wisely on a pro who'll install it right and who'll support his job after the fact if there are issues.

 

My two cents. Good luck.

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

What you should really be doing is gathering info on perhaps three installers, have them come and walk the property and give you an estimate. Choose the highest rated one, not just the lowest price. If you don't really know anything about installing, here's some likely scenarios if you do it yourself-

 

- You'll buy cheap crap that won't work

- You'll buy expensive stuff and you won't get the most out of it

- Either way you'll be installing it all and YOUR ass will be on the line

- You'll curse the day you took this on when the installing gets tough- and it will

- You'll be the one who has to keep after it, maintain it, and fix everything always

- The words 'I thought you knew what you were doing'- get used to hearing that

- Thousands will be spent with marginal results- that works against your job security

 

Study up here and read so you're not completely ignorant when you interview installers. That's fine. But let professionals install it- my opinion. It seems easy to do, and yet it's never completely straight forward. You're gonna spend the bosses money either way. Spend it wisely on a pro who'll install it right and who'll support his job after the fact if there are issues.

 

My two cents. Good luck.

this is all excellent advice.

 

also, make sure to get itemized quotes and bring them back here so we can all rip them to shreds.

[scottl31 0]

What you should really be doing is gathering info on perhaps three installers, have them come and walk the property and give you an estimate. Choose the highest rated one, not just the lowest price. If you don't really know anything about installing, here's some likely scenarios if you do it yourself-

 

- You'll buy cheap crap that won't work

- You'll buy expensive stuff and you won't get the most out of it

- Either way you'll be installing it all and YOUR ass will be on the line

- You'll curse the day you took this on when the installing gets tough- and it will

- You'll be the one who has to keep after it, maintain it, and fix everything always

- The words 'I thought you knew what you were doing'- get used to hearing that

- Thousands will be spent with marginal results- that works against your job security

 

Study up here and read so you're not completely ignorant when you interview installers. That's fine. But let professionals install it- my opinion. It seems easy to do, and yet it's never completely straight forward. You're gonna spend the bosses money either way. Spend it wisely on a pro who'll install it right and who'll support his job after the fact if there are issues.

 

My two cents. Good luck.

 

Much as I hate to admit it, this is the best advice I got on this thread so far. I'll show him this post.

 

Job security isn't on the line. He laid me off two years ago and I only get "as needed" sporadic work. He pays me less than any installer would charge. If I recommend a pro and he goes for it, then I ace myself out of a bunch of work that I really need. It's a double edged sword for me here. If I do it and make the right choices, then I'm a hero like I have been many times over the last 20 years working at this company. But if I end up spending a lot of time and money and have some things from your above list happen, he won't stop having me come in when I'm needed, but he won't be thrilled with all he spent for poor results.

 

I have actually contacted an installer and he said they use a brand called "Zmodo." Is this OK, or crap?

 

Thanks for your input.

[scottl31 0]

this is all excellent advice.

 

also, make sure to get itemized quotes and bring them back here so we can all rip them to shreds.

 

Ha! I will! Thanks a lot!

 

Scott

[shockwave199 0]

I have actually contacted an installer and he said they use a brand called "Zmodo." Is this OK, or crap?

One down. NEXT!

 

[Securame 0]

Your boss has watched way too many 007 movies.

 

What you should really be doing is gathering info on perhaps three installers, have them come and walk the property and give you an estimate. Choose the highest rated one, not just the lowest price. If you don't really know anything about installing, here's some likely scenarios if you do it yourself-

 

- You'll buy cheap crap that won't work

- You'll buy expensive stuff and you won't get the most out of it

- Either way you'll be installing it all and YOUR ass will be on the line

- You'll curse the day you took this on when the installing gets tough- and it will

- You'll be the one who has to keep after it, maintain it, and fix everything always

- The words 'I thought you knew what you were doing'- get used to hearing that

- Thousands will be spent with marginal results- that works against your job security

 

Study up here and read so you're not completely ignorant when you interview installers. That's fine. But let professionals install it- my opinion. It seems easy to do, and yet it's never completely straight forward. You're gonna spend the bosses money either way. Spend it wisely on a pro who'll install it right and who'll support his job after the fact if there are issues.

 

My two cents. Good luck.

 

I second this.

[scottl31 0]

I have actually contacted an installer and he said they use a brand called "Zmodo." Is this OK, or crap?

One down. NEXT!

 

 

 

"one down" - meaning good or bad?

[shockwave199 0]

Meaning from all I've ever read, it's less than good. But, I've never used any zmodo stuff so I really shouldn't pass judgement.

 

If you're considering analog, we use an openeye dvr at work and it's been doing well-

 

http://www.openeye.net/products/recorders/e-series/oe3-e480/

 

What's cool about them is they have good support for their product should you need it. Their radius software is really good too- I did a short overview video of it. Nice system that has some good features to it. I gain nothing by mentioning them- it's just I have a lot of experience using it. Whether an installer would know of them or care to- I don't know.

 

To your point about your employer, it's a slippery slope. Just be careful. If you want the job just for work sake, I understand. But realize installing this stuff is typically done by pros for a reason- it's actually not easy. There's a lot to know. That's why there are certified professionals that do it. I speak from experience with this- I'm not just ruminating on it. I pushed my employer to let me administer our system and even install a ptz camera- a tough install for me not being a professional either. It's worked out fine overall, but it's taken quite a bit of time and effort to get my arms around a mere seven cameras that weren't installed particularly well in the first place, re-aiming and getting into menus to set them better, etc. The best camera on the line is the ptz *I* installed. I had to tweak all the other cameras the 'pro' installed, so be very choosy when deciding who you give the job to. But I had installed my own system at home and had been digging in and studying for over a year before I felt comfortable enough putting my ass on the line for my employer. And even then, you can certainly make the argument that that did not qualify me to jump in the middle of a system installed at a business!

 

Here's the thing to remember- it's not just getting everything in place and installed. If you take the job on, it will be you who will have to explain why the system possibly failed when you needed it most in an emergency. Questions such as why wasn't there a camera monitoring that area, why is it I can see the intruder but I can't possibly ID him with that view, why was that camera not working at the time, how could they have seen the coax to cut it, why was it so easy for them to reach the camera, why didn't the system call or email me, why did the sun completely ruin the shot when the intruder was right in front of the camera...on and on. You take on that responsibility too, along with just installing the gear. And that can take up a lot of space in your brain man! So my opinion, be honest with your employer. Tell him that you can do it at a reduced cost, but you can only do the best you can not being a pro. Or, you can source him a qualified pro. Let him decide. But if you do the job, understand you take on the system in the short AND long run. Good luck!

[scottl31 0]

OK, I ran shockwave's post past my boss and he still has confidence that I can handle this (don't ask me why). I worked some magic on few projects over the last 20 years, but that doesn't mean I can do it with this.

 

I feel like I know my own limitations and I told him that I felt that starting at zero knowledge (I'm good on networking) and trying to learn as I go may not be the best way to spend his time/money, especially if something is not working and I need to tweak settings for weeks. I need the work and could have not mentioned that, but I have bit of a conscience.

 

Anyway, he suggested I try and find out what the best software to run these systems is and work backward from there to find the best (or really good) cameras/DVRs etc. If this doesn't sound too crazy, then maybe some of you can set me on at least a starting path on this.

 

His ultimate goal (don't laugh) is once it's set up and running, to show it to our customers and offer them the same system installed in their offices. If I could make this happen for him, it could mean a lot more work for me, which I desperately need.

 

That Dahua thing sounded good to him. He'd love to rebrand the cameras with his company name. Do you have agree to buy a thousand of them or something in order to get them?

 

I appreciate all your patience with me, and I hope I can continue to get some help here.

 

Thanks a lot,

Scott

[shockwave199 0]

Scott- dig into the IP forum here too. Understand the differences in install, gear, and software between an IP/megapixel camera system and analog. Most here would advise you to not install analog any longer or if you do, at least use Cat5 so you can easily upgrade to an IP/MP system in the future. Do not commit to the system or the gear you choose until you fully understand what you're dealing with. So dig into that forum too. Understand all the gear choices and how they are best installed, and hopefully you'll have success with it. That will take a while to wrap your brain around, but it's worth reading and asking questions before you decide, spend, and install. That's really the best I can advise you. Very best of luck with it all!

[scottl31 0]

Those brands are what you might consider for residential applications, not saying they wont work for you, but they are less of a commercial solution.

that's a polite way of saying "they're toys".

 

Some people on here really like the Q-See brand, particularly the ones made by a company called Dahua because of their good picture on an inexpensive camera. This brand may be less likely to be fully supported by the better software solutions.

+1 for dahua as a lower-cost option... the trick is finding a suitable reseller outside of china, as dahua require resellers to re-brand their equipment... so it will almost always have a different name on it.

 

where are you located?

 

 

Do you have to buy a thousand of them or something to get the Dahua?

[scottl31 0]

Scott- dig into the IP forum here too. Understand the differences in install, gear, and software between an IP/megapixel camera system and analog. Most here would advise you to not install analog any longer or if you do, at least use Cat5 so you can easily upgrade to an IP/MP system in the future. Do not commit to the system or the gear you choose until you fully understand what you're dealing with. So dig into that forum too. Understand all the gear choices and how they are best installed, and hopefully you'll have success with it. That will take a while to wrap your brain around, but it's worth reading and asking questions before you decide, spend, and install. That's really the best I can advise you. Very best of luck with it all!

 

Hey Shockwave,

 

What is the IP forum and what will I learn differently there than here?

 

I thought all the systems were digital. How can I tell which ones are analog? Shows how much I know.

 

I wish it were just as simple as you telling me what to buy, or you can't go wrong with this, this, or this camera (or DVR, software etc.)

 

Thanks!

[need2shave 0]

If you want cameras that will reliably trigger when someone is inside then go with a VideoIQ solution.

[scottl31 0]

If you want cameras that will reliably trigger when someone is inside then go with a VideoIQ solution.

 

I'll add that to my list to check out. Thanks!

[shockwave199 0]

Scott- dig into the IP forum here too. Understand the differences in install, gear, and software between an IP/megapixel camera system and analog. Most here would advise you to not install analog any longer or if you do, at least use Cat5 so you can easily upgrade to an IP/MP system in the future. Do not commit to the system or the gear you choose until you fully understand what you're dealing with. So dig into that forum too. Understand all the gear choices and how they are best installed, and hopefully you'll have success with it. That will take a while to wrap your brain around, but it's worth reading and asking questions before you decide, spend, and install. That's really the best I can advise you. Very best of luck with it all!

 

Hey Shockwave,

 

What is the IP forum and what will I learn differently there than here?

 

I thought all the systems were digital. How can I tell which ones are analog? Shows how much I know.

 

I wish it were just as simple as you telling me what to buy, or you can't go wrong with this, this, or this camera (or DVR, software etc.)

 

Thanks!

The IP forum-

 

viewforum.php?f=19

[Kawboy12R 0]

DVR (digital video recorder) is kind of a misnomer these days. Back when analog cameras recorded to analog tape, the powers that be decided to call the new recorders that translated analog camera feeds to digital and saved it on hard drives as Digital Video Recorders. Which they did- record analog video digitally. The confusing part came when "real" digital IP cameras came out. Sounds logical that a digital IP camera could record to a Digital Video Recorder, right? Nope. That name was taken so they started calling them NVRs. It takes a hybrid (I think calling them a hybrid DVR or a hybrid NVR are both correct) to hook up both analog and IP (also called network or digital) cams to the same recorder. If someone says a CCTV camera is high def (HD cam), they're PROBABLY talking about a megapixel IP camera, but there are high definition analog cameras out there, too. They don't seem to be nearly as common as their IP cousins though.

[scottl31 0]

DVR (digital video recorder) is kind of a misnomer these days. Back when analog cameras recorded to analog tape, the powers that be decided to call the new recorders that translated analog camera feeds to digital and saved it on hard drives as Digital Video Recorders. Which they did- record analog video digitally. The confusing part came when "real" digital IP cameras came out. Sounds logical that a digital IP camera could record to a Digital Video Recorder, right? Nope. That name was taken so they started calling them NVRs. It takes a hybrid (I think calling them a hybrid DVR or a hybrid NVR are both correct) to hook up both analog and IP (also called network or digital) cams to the same recorder. If someone says a CCTV camera is high def (HD cam), they're PROBABLY talking about a megapixel IP camera, but there are high definition analog cameras out there, too. They don't seem to be nearly as common as their IP cousins though.

 

Great. Just what I need.. more confusion.

 

Are you saying that a so called IP camera does not record to a DVR? If it records to a NVR, I assume that means "Network Video Recorder", is that correct? Is it essentially the same thing?

 

So when I am struggling to come up with a solution for my boss, how can I tell the difference between analog and digital systems or components? Shockwave was saying above that most of you guys don't recommend analog. My boss would like to stay the most current, so how can I tell the difference between analog and digital so I can avoid the analog, if that's the best option?

 

Thanks,

Scott