Build me a System!

[PJNTJ 0]

First post, jumping in with both feet!

 

I've done 6-8 hours of research on video security systems and have not decided yet. I see the all in a box systems are mostly garbage and I'm looking for a good "commercial" system on a marginal budget. Brand new here, read a few posts, no idea what to expect, but I see there's thousands of members, so I'm throwing out what details I can for you all to help me.

 

Budget: 2500-$3000

Commercial Property 1.7 acres.

I think I've decided IP system, IP cameras, ~2 megapixel.

POE, I heard wireless stinks.

I want to read license plates.

Farthest line run ~250-300 feet.

Looking at 8 cameras, 6 outdoor, 2 indoor.

NVR, standalone system I guess?

 

I've looked at the very top of the line Lorex and Swann systems for $2600, and they seem to be around what I want, but everything I've read says Lorex and Swann are garbage if you really want to identify someone/something for law enforcement.

 

Thanks in advance!!!!

 

Paul

[voip-ninja 0]

Hi Paul,

 

That's kind of a tall order for the budget you have.

 

As far as license plate reading goes, you will basically have to mount a camera that is pointed at a specific spot on the road and has good illumination in order to reliably read plates (you can't just shoot the whole road, you will need to have it zoomed in to the bumper area to get good reading). You also might need a camera with good WDR performance in order to compensate for things like oncoming vehicle headlights affecting the ability of the camera to read the plate.

 

Assuming you went with all budget 2MP bullet cameras from a manufacturer like ACTi, your budget is doable at about $450 per exterior 1080P camera and you going on a shoe-string for the recorder PC, PoE switch, etc as well as going as low end as possible on the interior cams. This also assumes you try to get the best prices you can even if you don't go through an authorized dealer/servicer.

 

Keep in mind that if your outside cameras are not mounted directly on the exterior of your home (instead you mount them on gate or pole away from the property) you will need to run direct burial CAT5e or CAT6 to the camera location.

 

So;

 

6X ACTi 2MP bullets - $450 per (D42, etc) = $2700.

2X cheap 720P interior domes - $300 per = $600

 

So, $3300 for cams. You still need cabling, PoE injectors (or 8 port PoE switch), as well as a PC to run the free ACTi NVR recorder software.

 

So... doable, barely.

 

If you are willing to direct order something lower end like HiKVision or Dahua you can probably shave $500-$750 off of that price. Their NVR software isn't as good though from what I've read.

[buellwinkle 0]

For that budget, with ACTi, get 6 D32 fixed IR bullets, $250 each and 2 D55 indoor domes. 3MP, IR and works well. The 9 channel NVR is just under $700, but to save money, use their free NVR software and buy a cheap PC, maybe $399. Add a 8 port PoE switch for about $120 and you are done for $2,500.

 

So where to splurge if you want to spend more. I would substitute one of the D32 with a KCM-5611 for $800ish, 1080P, very good in low light and 18X zoom to try and capture plates. You may need a good illuminator to effectively capture plates. That puts you at about $3K.

 

Another interesting approach may be to use one or two IR PTZ cameras and have it do a patrol to different preset locations. I've used the Dahua SD6982, 1080P, 18X zoom, very nice clear images. Had a customer swap his $4,000 Axis Q60 PTZ for these because they produce a clearer image. They have staged IR LEDs that can see 2-300' away when zoomed in. They run about $1,500 from a U.S. authorized dealer, but may be better than trying to cover a large rural area with a bunch of small cameras.

 

One thing you can do with a PTZ and wide angle camera like from ACTi is have it send an URL command to the PTZ on motion detection. Say for example, a car drives in your gates, you can have the ACTi camera sense the location, send a command to the Dahua PTZ telling it to zoom in tight on that area to capture a plate and get more detail. You have 3 motion detect zone on the ACTi, each one can trigger an separate event. You can even have two or three ACTi cameras doing this. So maybe 1 $1,500 PTZ, 2 $250 ACTi D32's, 2 indoor D55's, PoE switch, PC, probably still under $3K

[PJNTJ 0]

Awesome! Thanks for the input so far guys.

I don't need to read plates driving by at speed, this would be for an office building parking lot, parked cars. They guy that is stealing everything outside has to come in and park to do it.

 

Being a newB at this point, I'm a bit nervous piecing together a system, thinking I will miss something or have compatibility issues, but research tells me these systems in a box are all really stinky.

 

Not sure I need/wasn't planning a PTZ camera at this point, but it would be a nice upgrade in the future.

 

For a PC we do have a network server here at work, but it's maybe 4-5 years old, not the most powerful thing, I'll try to get the specs if you think that can be used.

 

I'm going to spend some more time and research all the names and ideas above.

[buellwinkle 0]

ACTi's free NVR3 software does not use a lot of CPU because the cameras do the motion detection, so you can easily use a 4-5 year old PC like I do.

[PJNTJ 0]

I've got a Dell Optiplex 755, core 2 duo 3Ghz, 3 gig ram, upgradeable to 4. Like I say 4 years old but still chugging away. Hard drive is about filled, 70/80 gig, need a bigger one.

 

Server is a Dell PE SE440, 2 gig ram, xeon processor. Probably only a couple hundred gig available physical space, needing some upgrades here I guess.

[voip-ninja 0]

For the number of cams you are talking about, to record at say 10-15 fps with MJPEG you will probably want at least 1TB of storage to record a couple of weeks worth of events.

 

The viewer PC does not need to have outstanding specs for most of the software that is out there.

[PJNTJ 0]

Cool.

As you can see I only know enough to be dangerous.

I may ask our computer guy to install an NAS off the server if possible.

[CamB 0]

Paul,

 

You should re-consider your budget and number of cameras.

 

Your budget seems to only include hardware and software (cameras, server, vms, switch etc.)...but you also need to consider the installation. You can certainly try to do it yourself, but it is not always straightforward for a newbie...particularly when you need to figure out how to network everything from different vendors.

 

It might be better for you to re-evaluate how many cameras you actually need...so you don't have to spend a bunch of money and time running cables, drilling holes through walls, under the building, etc. That exercise can take even longer than setting up the cameras.

 

Just to give you an idea...I purchased a turnkey installation that included 3 Acti Cameras, Milestone, a Windows PC, switch, and cables that ran me $7500. I live in a major city, so labor may be a bit more expensive. I really can't compare the other bids I got as they were all over the map...some cheaper...but wanted to install analog or "Costco" packages. Some were double that when I wanted to go with Axis.

 

Based on my research...the bulk of the costs were labor vs. actual hardware. What I have found is that most "installers" can't do each aspect of a turnkey installation. A contractor is needed to run cables and do any low voltage electrical work and a networking guy is needed to setup the cameras, vms, router, etc. My installer just adjusted the camera positioning...and was more of a sales guy.

[PJNTJ 0]

I think you're exactly right on much of that. I might go less cameras, more expensive ones, or just less cameras to start. I'm definately a DIYer though, I have no problem drilling through walls, running wires through attic spaces and drilling into the side of metal buildings. I'm also thinking all outside cameras now.

 

The networking is where I fall short, I don't know a gigabit ethernet switch from a router, but luckily we barter with the computer guy here at the office, he's wired our network and our phone systems for nada. I'm in the country, we still do a lot of business on a handshake.

 

Making sure I get all the proper pieces, that will work together, is why I came here.

 

Those ACTi cameras the motorcycle guy listed above look to be just about perfect for my needs.

[voip-ninja 0]

If you are a DIYer then you can absolutely do this yourself. In my humble opinion the "hard parts" of a CCTV install are pointing/focusing cameras properly and setting up motion detection well.

 

So, do two things;

 

1. Buy cams with electronic zoom and focus to make focusing and zooming them less painful.

2. Get recording software that gives you ample feedback so you can get the motion recording and alerts right.

 

If you've got the time and modest technical skills it is absolutely doable, and there's no reason to spend USD 7500 for a few cams and an installation.

 

As far as networking goes, the cams will need either a PoE switch or power injectors. Look on eBay for a "mid-span power unit". You can get rack mountable ones that can handle as many cams as you want and you don't need to change out anything else in the network.

[CamB 0]

Ohh...one more thing. If you have someone else do your networking...make sure they document all of the settings and changes to your router. It will come in handy one day...if something goes wrong...installer is not longer in the business...then what do you do.

[buellwinkle 0]

I'm a DIY guy for lot of things around the house but I hired an electrician to run the Ethernet cables and it wasn't that expensive, from about $50 to $125 per drop and the more expensive drops were long and tedious to install, maybe $75 on average. This is because they are better at doing this with minimal drywall damage.

[shockwave199 0]

A picture or drawing with distances for the areas you plan to cover is needed. Short of that, it's all conjecture. No one can say what will work best without that info. Tangents are started without that info. It will help save pages of conjecture, so please- distance details of what you need covered is a must- especially in a parking lot situation.