PC Based DVR and UPS/Line Conditioner

[CraigVM62 0]

Having just replaced the third power supply on a 32 channel I-View DVR, I am thinking it would be good to utilize a UPS with line conditioning. I have minimal experience with UPS units. I understand how they will have a PC close down windows and shutdown while it is providing back up power. Are there units that will inform the PC to power back up when power is restored? Would this be done in the PC's Bios setting? I used to think I had good general PC knowledge until introduced to this DVR.

Thanks

[VST_Man 1]

you can set the PC/Server to turn on after power is restored.............in the BIOS settings.

 

I've replace only 1 APC and it fried due to an "overload" by the customer....had a zillion things plugged into it and when the power dropped it literally blew.

 

Line conditioner? Yes and no. Most APC's and UPS's have software that monitor the supplied AC voltage in and I've yet to see any stats on one that makes me want a line conditioner type. Guys like Rory may need them based on his poor AC supplier but here in the states the AC lines are normally pretty stable. I've never lost equipment to lighting or power problems....knock, knock Water is the biggest problem.

[rory 0]

Down here yah cant live without a Voltage Regulator (also known as a Line Conditioner in the PC World). Yes we have much worse power conditions here in the third world ofcourse .. apparently its due alot to second hand equipment purchased on sale from South American Countries.

 

You can buy Belkin or APC (or other) UPS's that have it built in, it costs more than the standard UPS. Also, you can simply just buy the Voltage Regulator by itself, for like $30 for an APC 600volt unit. The Voltage regulator is of more use than a UPS any second of the day, when dealing with electronic's protection.

 

A UPS is simply to keep battery power to a PC for example, so you dont loose any data in opened programs, like if you are typing a message here on the forum ... until you have time to complete/save the document and shut down the PC manually.

 

Also, occasionally PC Data can become corupt from a sudden shut down of windows, without closing the program, less now adays than the old win9x days, and depends on the program or data you are in the middle of. Personally I have never used a UPS for my own PC and we have power outages every day all summer long - only had data corupt on me twice since 1996, and it wasnt serious. (here a UPS wont even last me anyway, power stays off for hours at a time!)

 

Your Power Supply failures are most certainly from issues that require a Voltage Regulator, I'd reccommend an APC or TripLite.

 

As for the PC powering back up, that is set in the Bios Power Section, whether you use a UPS or not. It is essential that this part is set to resume on power failure, for all PC DVRs.

 

Rory

[cam2 0]

Could be issues with a ups powering back up the system after a shutdown.

 

When a/c is lost the system shuts off , period.

 

With a ups in place it shuts dowm normally, (with the software) to prevent corruption to the system.

 

When a/c is restored the bios has been told to restart on power on, however this wont automatically start it unless its done manually.

 

I have been looking into a ups myself, and really not sure of the benefit anymore

[CollinR 0]

Could be issues with a ups powering back up the system after a shutdown.

 

When a/c is lost the system shuts off , period.

 

With a ups in place it shuts dowm normally, (with the software) to prevent corruption to the system.

 

When a/c is restored the bios has been told to restart on power on, however this wont automatically start it unless its done manually.

 

I have been looking into a ups myself, and really not sure of the benefit anymore

 

 

 

I was about to point that out, it flat out doesn't work correctly for most motherboards.

 

The BIOS rarely sees the power loss, that is unless the UPS exhausts it's battery power. The PC was shut down and so that is it's last state. Thats why On on restore and last state don't work. I have seen a BIOS with an always on setting but thats still not going to work correctly.

 

Maybe we can come up with a timer relay using the high voltage as a trigger method to hit the power on header on the motherboard.

[cam2 0]

Its a tricky one.

 

The only way i could see it working is, not to use the software to shut the pc down normally.

 

Hoping it would have enough power in the battery to last until power was restored, maybe then it would work.

 

Trial and error?

[CollinR 0]

A big UPS and a little PC might work.

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4454&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

 

Especially if embedded without an optical drive, just make it draw the smallest amount of power possible.

 

As a bonus the PC shown in that link can be wired to the camera's (12v) power supply, that would keep the whole CCTV service running without AC until the UPS gives up the ghost.

[cam2 0]

Yeah, but when the ups is drained we are back to square one

[CollinR 0]

No once the battery is exhausted when power returns you will reboot due to the BIOS setting.

 

 

From my research this AM I think this might be a UPS specific problem.

 

It's ~supposed~ to owrk like this:

 

Power lost

Battery used until predetermined battery capacity left

UPS sends shutdown command to PC

PC begins shut down

Last function of shut down sends a "soft shut down" to UPS

UPS waits and kills the power to the PC's outlet

....

....

Power restored

UPS restores power to the PC's outlet

The PC sees this and reboots due to it's BIOS settings

 

 

 

Belkin UPSs seem to specifically have issues recieving the soft shutdown command. This might be a feature only available in server level UPSs, I don't know but I'm looking.

[rory 0]

How often does the power go off in the UK ...

[cam2 0]

You'd be surprised

 

Quite often tbh, normally off for an hour or so, loads of spikes though, which re-boot the pc, 2/3 times a week.

 

Probably exactly when you need footage that hasn't recorded

 

I had thought of trying a car battery, linked to a 12v mains charger then a dc/ac converter to the pc just for the hell of it.

 

No auto shut down but may last longer thah a ups?

[CollinR 0]

Yup thats it.

 

 

From APC's website.

 

http://www.apc.com/tools/ups_selector/index.cfm

 

Only the "Smart UPS" model has the feature called "Automatic restart of loads after UPS shutdown".

 

I'd be willing to bet that's the problem, too bad thats a $300+ option!

[rory 0]

Hmmmm, how about a Generator ...?

 

If its a decent mobo it will have Resume on Power Failure in the Bios.

THough I have noticed that no matter which one it is, whether it has a UPS or not, they dont come back on 100% of the time, very close though.

[cam2 0]

Automatic restart of loads after UPS shutdown .

 

Thats the one

 

Well spotted,whose tried one.................

[CollinR 0]

If its a decent mobo it will have Resume on Power Failure in the Bios.

 

The problem is if the UPS doesn't get drained down enough it will continue to supply 120v to the PC the PC will never see the power failure and hence it won't restore from something that was never lost. The UPS needs to kill the power to the PC when it wants it to reboot so that BIOS setting will work.

 

I guess the problem is in the name

 

Uniteruptable Power Supply

 

We need it interupted! Right when the power comes back on.

 

 

 

EDIT: What UPS are you using Rory?

[cam2 0]

My mobo is 100% restart when power is cut/ restored.

 

A ups will work until battery drained, but wont re-boot pc.

 

Meantime camera's are off anyway so no recording, seems like unless you have a generator or spend $$$ on a ups, it pointless.........

[rory 0]

I dont use a UPS on my machine ... pretty useless since the power goes off for hours, Ive used the same TripLite Line Conditioner since 1996 and never lost any hardware ...

[Jasper 0]

Isn't this one of those threads that could be tacked on to the end of the other long thread about UPS?.

 

Or is just when the thread gets off topic that you want that to happen

[cam2 0]

Isn't this one of those threads that could be tacked on to the end of the other long thread about UPS?.

 

Or is just when the thread gets off topic that you want that to happen

 

Well if you linked all the Geovision posts together , that would be a long one

 

Its a good thread and still a few answers to come imho.........

[Jasper 0]

 

Oh, please don't link all the GeoVision threads.

 

I was just thinking that much of the information I am reading here has already been covered in the other thread.

 

It just sounds like censorship doesn't it. I am done.

[cam2 0]

I see where your coming from but most geo threads go round in circles and lead us back to ups

 

anyhow CraigVM62 asked specificly on the issue of power up via ups and its still as clear as mud.

 

i e-mailed a supplier and they did not know!

 

 

So we need info on a ,

 

 

UPS that powers the system back up from a battery drain without any manual intervention, do they exist??

[CollinR 0]

So we need info on a ,

 

 

UPS that powers the system back up from a battery drain without any manual intervention, do they exist??

 

The answer to that question is yes.

 

My question is, is there one thats under or close to $100 USD?

[cam2 0]

So we need info on a ,

 

 

UPS that powers the system back up from a battery drain without any manual intervention, do they exist??

 

The answer to that question is yes.

 

My question is, is there one thats under or close to $100 USD?

 

 

Make it $300 and we have a deal

[rory 0]

Just use a Voltage Regulator, the UPS doesnt seem to make any difference with DVR server software or video files. As far as I know they will simply repair the previous file if it got corupt. I know I pull the Plug on my PC all the time and still the video files are fine.

 

One program that does still get messed up though is Firefox ... well not the program itself but its profile does ..

[Jasper 0]

Just use a Voltage Regulator, the UPS doesnt seem to make any difference with DVR server software or video files. As far as I know they will simply repair the previous file if it got corupt. I know I pull the Plug on my PC all the time and still the video files are fine.

 

One program that does still get messed up though is Firefox ... well not the program itself but its profile does ..

 

Remember though that you are probably talking about XP and the NTFS file system. Try that with Windows 98 and FAT32 and your talking a whole different ball game. Also if you have drive caching enabled you are more likely to get corrupted data.