Brand quality and reputation

[tech_dog 0]

I've been researching for some time, and feel I have a decent understanding of camera and DVR features and specifications.

 

What's harder to determine is the relative quality of the different brand options.

 

As a homeowner planning a self-installation, my requirements are basic, but I want to pick a brand that is well made, reliable, and gives good quality for the money spent. I'm looking for a Toyota, not a Mercedes or a Fiat.

 

What brands are good, and what should be avoided? It's pretty tough for a nube to tell.

 

Best regards,

 

T.

[scorpion 0]

I install a high number of very cheap, entry level priced systems.

 

I use AVTech, CPCam, and Eclipse products.

 

You can not get a better product from a big warehouse club. Although those club products are finally starting to catch up.

 

If it has to be cheap, and it has to be good then forget about the DVR. Spend your money on a very heavy duty battery back up system with high end power filtration. Use surge protectors on your camera cables.

 

Purchase better grade power supplys for the cameras.

 

_____________________________________________________

 

I do not design by buying a DVR. You have to look at what you are protecting. How much value do you have to loose? Will you be remote viewing? Where will the DVR be located. You can only bring the wires out of the attic with interior walls. Do not put the DVR in the attic, or in the garage.

_____________________________________________________

 

You need to build layer upon layers for security.

1. Lock doors, and windows.

2. Cut back bushes/trees.

3. Install lighting

4. Install film that prevents glass shatter, and penetration.

5. Upgrade doorlocks

6. Use, or install burglar alarm system

7. Video surveillance

8. Police presence. Call for a drive by to watch out for things while vacationing

9. Remote video monitoring.

 

Hope this helps

_________________________________________________________

[tech_dog 0]

I've looked at the systems at the big warehouses, and I'm definitely looking for something better than that.

 

 

I think my house would be a pleasant surprise for a burgler, but my real intention is to protect my family, not my stuff. I want something that looks substantial,but not huge, and serves as a deterent. If something ever happens I don't want to be surprised by a malfunction.

 

I found prices on some AVTech and Eclipse products, and I'm willing to go a bit richer than that. I found specs for some nice looking CPCam cameras, i.e. the CPC381/CPC383, but can't find prices. I'm guessing they're a bit more and I'll do more searching. I'm also hoping for varifocal lenses to help compensate for my lack of expertise.

 

Thanks for the information, and please let me know if there are any other quality & value brands that are the next step above this price point.

 

Best regards,

 

T.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

I install a high number of very cheap, entry level priced systems.

 

I use AVTech, CPCam, and Eclipse products.

 

You can not get a better product from a big warehouse club. Although those club products are finally starting to catch up.

 

If it has to be cheap, and it has to be good then forget about the DVR. Spend your money on a very heavy duty battery back up system with high end power filtration. Use surge protectors on your camera cables.

 

Purchase better grade power supplys for the cameras.

 

_____________________________________________________

 

I do not design by buying a DVR. You have to look at what you are protecting. How much value do you have to loose? Will you be remote viewing? Where will the DVR be located. You can only bring the wires out of the attic with interior walls. Do not put the DVR in the attic, or in the garage.

_____________________________________________________

 

You need to build layer upon layers for security.

1. Lock doors, and windows.

2. Cut back bushes/trees.

3. Install lighting

4. Install film that prevents glass shatter, and penetration.

5. Upgrade doorlocks

6. Use, or install burglar alarm system

7. Video surveillance

8. Police presence. Call for a drive by to watch out for things while vacationing

9. Remote video monitoring.

 

Hope this helps

_________________________________________________________

 

scorpion, excellent suggestions man and these steps should be used by any homeowner out there, including myself...

 

I am not familiar with CPCam or Eclipse product line and I am sure they are good, but I am more into major brand product line which nowadays are not that much more expensive...

 

tech_dog, what type of cameras are you looking for? Bullet types, minidomes or fixed cameras with lens and that you can install inside of outdoor housing? Does camera having IR capability important? Color or B&W?

 

Depending on the answers, I can make some suggestions from world of CBC, American Dynamics, Bosch, GE Security or even Panasonic... Lately they all have a greater push into homeowners and small shop owners markets with newer solutions, cameras, DVRs, etc... that are much more cost effective than their conventional equipment... You will be pleasantly surprised how well they have been positioning their products and their pricing to compete, which is always good for all of us, the dealers and the end users alike...

[bike_rider 0]

My experience (limited to the 7 cameras (no two alike) for my home and what I've seen of the neighbor's setup) is that there is a fair relation between price and performance. Cheap stuff is crap, really expensive stuff is not needed. Generally, bigger cameras give better images. So lipstick cameras are not as good as domes which are not as good as box cameras. That is a big simplification, but it works.

 

Let's talk system design first. Then we can talk about specific camera types, and then brands/models within that type.

 

How much are you going to cover? Every door and approach? Don't forget the utility panel if it is publicly accessible.

 

Covert vs Overt. You need some big obvious cameras in a couple of key places, backed up with a couple of signs. You then want covert cameras to see what people do when they are not scared off by the signs and overt cameras. A couple of color cameras on the approaches are great for clothing and car colors and skin tones. Otherwise B&W will give better images and a lower price.

 

Visible lighting is a good thing. Motion lights, low voltage landscape lights, whatever it takes.

 

Put together a plan, maybe draw a map. Let the experts here save you from expensive mistakes.

[tech_dog 0]

I'm probably looking for a bullet that's large and obvious enough to be a deterrant. The area is lit all night with low wattage lighting, so I either need very sensitive cameras or IR. I'd like decent resolution color.

 

Thanks for any help,

 

T.

[InNorthernWeTrust 0]

I'm probably looking for a bullet that's large and obvious enough to be a deterrant. The area is lit all night with low wattage lighting, so I either need very sensitive cameras or IR. I'd like decent resolution color.

 

Thanks for any help,

 

T.

 

http://www.armelectronics.com/specs/C520HDCVFIR280AC.pdf

 

That big enough? The only drawback is it is designed for long distance surveillence, the IRs are too powerfull for close up shots, it washes out the picture.

[bike_rider 0]

I'm probably looking for a bullet that's large and obvious enough to be a deterrant. The area is lit all night with low wattage lighting, so I either need very sensitive cameras or IR. I'd like decent resolution color.

 

Thanks for any help,

 

T.

 

I'm happy with my Speco CVC-EX550. A solid mid-priced camera, about $400. True Day/Night. The reason I picked this model is that most bullets (even oversized ones) have fairly short zoom reach. This does 5-50mm. Make sure you know what you need before you buy something because that is an important factor. Dimensions are 11" L x 2.9" diam.

[jisaac 0]

I've looked at the systems at the big warehouses, and I'm definitely looking for something better than that.

 

 

I think my house would be a pleasant surprise for a burgler, but my real intention is to protect my family, not my stuff. I want something that looks substantial,but not huge, and serves as a deterent. If something ever happens I don't want to be surprised by a malfunction.

 

 

T.

 

I am going to say something and it’s just me being completely honest. The video surveillance system won’t provide you any protection in terms of stopping or preventing an attack. One of the easiest ways to sell security systems is to appeal to peoples emotions and let them believe that if they get a security system that it will protect them. A proactive system can. But a camera system will only provide you with video of the event after it happened.

One of the major misconceptions is that criminals will go to a place that does not have a system. Yet I can provide you with a boat load of criminals committing crimes despite and in the face of security measures.

(hints why vandal proof cameras are so popular).

Criminals are going to do it regardless take banks in for instants. Even though they know they are walking into a army of cameras pointed at them people continue to rob them daily. So like I said criminals are going to do it regardless. So you might as well get it on GOOD video.

 

AKA: DONT GO CHEAP ON YOUR SYSTEM.

[bike_rider 0]

I'd offer a variation on what Jisaac wrote. Video is one tool in the security matrix. First is a security system that you use every time you leave the house - and when you go to bed at night. Then there is outside lights, putting your cars in the garage, defensive plantings, etc, etc.

 

While it does not deter all criminals, video does deter some. It depends on the nature of the intended crime. I have video of an attempted burglary at my house where the criminals stopped as soon as they saw the camera. I've since added prominent signs about video surveillance.

 

I live in a good neighborhood that is only a 15 minute drive from some bad places. The criminals in this area are looking for easy pickings. They always go to the front door to make sure nobody is home; they like mid-day crime because everyone is at work. They are not looking at my house specifically, they are looking for any easy target. You have to know know the enemy to define a solution that can work.

 

Oh, and faces are all well and good, but if you don't have a license plate shot, don't expect the police to find the bad guys.

[jisaac 0]

First is a security system that you use every time you leave the house - and when you go to bed at night. Then there is outside lights, putting your cars in the garage, defensive plantings, etc, etc.

 

While it does not deter all criminals, video does deter some. It depends on the nature of the intended crime. I have video of an attempted burglary at my house where the criminals stopped as soon as they saw the camera. I've since added prominent signs about video surveillance.

You have to know know the enemy to define a solution that can work.

 

Oh, and faces are all well and good, but if you don't have a license plate shot, don't expect the police to find the bad guys.

 

like I said a pro active sytem (meaning a system that alarms in real time to a person/station that requires a action to be taken.) can be effective in deterring/stopping crime. Let me add on to that statement

" a pro active sytem can be alot more effective in deterring/stopping crime. "

I will agree that there are some criminals that look for easy targets and easy targets only. In my experience they are few ard pose little risk. I think of them as the borderline mischief makers. There is numerous instances where places dont get robbed/stolen/vandalized or whatever until after a security system was put into place. Why? The real criminals want to know what you got hiding back there that you want to protect.

 

In all due respect because you had some amature guys get some interest in your house and then scared enough to leav does not mean that is going to happean more often than not.

 

So far we have 160 accounts in arkansas that have our intrusion detection with remote video verifcation systems on their business. Meaning we put these huge cameras and detectors and signs and all the works on the perimter of the property. The cameras looking back in to the property and the detectors creating a 360 degree perimeter along the outer most parts of the property. Once an intruder comes on to the outer edges of the property is when they are detected. The video goes directly to our monitoring center that will talk to them live and let them know that they are being watched live and that the police are on the way and then we say "looking for a man in a blue shirt, baseball hat, blue jeans, and white shoes" (obviously we let them know that THEY are being watched and its not a recorded message.)

 

You want to know a interesting pattern? (i usually would never say this out loud as this is a huge sales killer)

The fact is that usually after putting in these elaborate systems to stop people as they come on the property. The amount of attempted intrusions on a property will initially signifcantly rise! Usually by atleast 2-3 times the attempts in the first 3 weeks. After 3 weeks word gets around and people know that its a death trap to walk into that system.

 

But the determined criminals the ones that do the bulk of the stealing and crime are drawn to what they are not suppose to get their hands on. They could care less about the immenant threat of security technology breathing down on them waiting to blow the whistle on them. Despite all that they still go for it.

 

Believe me I am not basing my opinion on a single incident. I see incidents like this on average of atleast 5 times a day. Would see more if I actually kept up on all the activity on all the accounts. But that is to much to keep up with.

[rory 0]

best thing to do is just put in an alarm, and cameras, wait for them to trigger the alarm, catch them on camera doing it, then pull the trigger yourself .. save the courts some money too.

 

Subbed for a local alarm monitoring company for a few years, they had a couple thousand accounts when I was there, even more now, including a few hundred US Embassy properties, Local Super Markets, Jewelery stores, even the Casino, and many luxury and ghetto homes, basically a wide variety.

 

Many people have iron bars down here, I have all my windows and even the door, protected with iron bars, and those that dont either have security screens, or storm windows. Some have the best locks out there, the strongest doors etc ..

 

Doesnt matter what or where it is .. if the criminals want it .. they are going to try to get it, no matter what you have installed to "protect" it. Seen blow torches for doors, jackhammers for walls, tire wrenches for security screens, and many even carry small kids to squeeze them through to open the main entries, in the case of the casino, jet skies pulled up on the beach armed to the teeth. If they want in, they will get in. Having cameras to record them helps, but then again they "could" tief the recorder. As to the alarm, not hard to disable with very little knowledge; radio backup helps.

 

Point is .. dont count on ANY security system to save your life or belongings .. get insurance for belongings, and get armed for self protection. Unfortunately though, most of the life threatening robberies down here (apart from the average home invasion) take place when the person is coming and going from the property. when they are taken by surprise. If you have an alarm system with a Remote Button or a Perimeter alarm to sound the siren, this may help to scare them off, though it could also make them harm you, and if you have cameras, at least if you get harmed, it may record the criminals so at least they dont do it to someone else. We cant have guns here, against the law, but for certain i walk back and forth to my vehicle with a machete in hand every time .. cant be too careful!

[bike_rider 0]

Gee Rory,

 

You are really pitching the local real estate.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

I'm probably looking for a bullet that's large and obvious enough to be a deterrant. The area is lit all night with low wattage lighting, so I either need very sensitive cameras or IR. I'd like decent resolution color.

 

Thanks for any help,

 

T.

 

My vote goes with CBC BCH-IR39A bullet camera... it comes with 12 built in LEDs, 3mm-9mm AI lens, excellent color during the day and B&W during the night and fairly good picture in pitch dark... it takes both 12VDC and 24VAC power sources... Comes also with standard (3) years warranty... Pricing should be around $200.00 and it does deliver the goods for the price..

[rory 0]

Gee Rory,

 

You are really pitching the local real estate.

nah man, we sell property in the outislands, they are 100% crime free

 

Besides, this is a City I live in, most Cities have their problems, could be alot worse.

[scorpion 0]

jisaac,

 

I loved your post! You hit it pretty good on the head of that nail!

 

In regards to burglar alarms I believe the key word is "video verification"!

 

Without Video Verification burglar alarms in our area are treated at the same level as a barking dog call.

 

Vid/Ver is responded to at the highest level.

[tech_dog 0]

I'm probably looking for a bullet that's large and obvious enough to be a deterrant. The area is lit all night with low wattage lighting, so I either need very sensitive cameras or IR. I'd like decent resolution color.

 

Thanks for any help,

 

T.

 

My vote goes with CBC BCH-IR39A bullet camera... it comes with 12 built in LEDs, 3mm-9mm AI lens, excellent color during the day and B&W during the night and fairly good picture in pitch dark... it takes both 12VDC and 24VAC power sources... Comes also with standard (3) years warranty... Pricing should be around $200.00 and it does deliver the goods for the price..

 

Thanks! I'll take a look, as the specs you list are about what I had in mind, although I could still go up a bit in price point if that brings something else to mind.

 

Best regards,

 

T.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

T., you can always spend more and there no limits for what you can get... However, in my opinion, this model at least gives you the balance and good performance at a very reasonable price..

 

Heck, you can go to Panasonic high end StarLight technology (this will set you back at least a $1K) or their mid-range CP484 level (this will set you back around $400 plus lens, plus...)... or Bosch Dinion cameras...But at the end, when you trying to obtain a balanced performance (by balance performance I mean the cameras, the DVRs, monitors, etc), this model delivers the goods, providing that you are not considering or already have a very low end DVR...

 

One thing you should not do is it to mix high end cameras with low end DVRs or vice versa.. Results will not be in line to anyone's expectations.

 

If you want to go mid-range on everything, select all mid-range components... You can always mix and match components from various manufacturers, no problems there, and you should do that any way... No single manufacturer has a complete solution, even though they will claim otherwise... Instead, do your research and pick components that are applicable to your use and always ask questions...

 

By the way, which DVR do you have in mind or may already have in place?

[tech_dog 0]

T., you can always spend more and there no limits for what you can get... However, in my opinion, this model at least gives you the balance and good performance at a very reasonable price..

 

Heck, you can go to Panasonic high end StarLight technology (this will set you back at least a $1K) or their mid-range CP484 level (this will set you back around $400 plus lens, plus...)... or Bosch Dinion cameras...But at the end, when you trying to obtain a balanced performance (by balance performance I mean the cameras, the DVRs, monitors, etc), this model delivers the goods, providing that you are not considering or already have a very low end DVR...

 

One thing you should not do is it to mix high end cameras with low end DVRs or vice versa.. Results will not be in line to anyone's expectations.

 

If you want to go mid-range on everything, select all mid-range components... You can always mix and match components from various manufacturers, no problems there, and you should do that any way... No single manufacturer has a complete solution, even though they will claim otherwise... Instead, do your research and pick components that are applicable to your use and always ask questions...

 

By the way, which DVR do you have in mind or may already have in place?

 

I haven't selected the DVR yet, but it seems the specs give more complete information than the specs for cameras. With the cameras, I've seen several with great specs that look fair to bad, and some with minimal specs that outperform.

 

I'll probably be going with an 8 camera DVR that supports internet access. Any favorites there?

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

Actually there are quite of few to choose from...

 

Since this is for home use, my suggestion is to go with embedded system.

 

Here are some option:

 

1. DR8N-250 - CBC 8 channel embedded with 250G drive (upgradeable to higher storage capacity for later) - Pricing should be under $1,000... and with (3) years warranty.

 

2. ADEDVR009008 - American Dynamics EDVR series, (9) channel with 80G drive (upgradeable to higher storage capacity for later) - Pricing should be around $1,100... and with (3) years warranty.

 

3. DSR-3709H160 - Sanyo Cheetah series, (9) channel with 160G drive (upgradeable to higher storage capacity for later) - Pricing should be under $1,700... and with (3) years warranty.

 

4. DX-TL4509U-250 - Mitsubishi, (9) channel with 250G drive (upgradeable to higher storage capacity for later) - Pricing should be under $2,000... and with (5) FIVE years warranty. (Mitsubishi is the only DVR manufacturer that overs (5) FIVE years warranty).

 

There are other models that will fall in between or higher in pricing...

 

Anyone of these models are excellent performers, ability to add more drives later, internet ready and with warranty that fits...

 

If you need other options, let us know... I am sure other member of this forum will have their say or their favorites... At least this way you will have options...

 

Good luck!

[CraigVM62 0]

I don't install near the exotic systems that many do here. But my most recent install utilized a Digital Watchdog Stand Alone DVR

 

http://dwddvr.com/productdetails.asp?rid=28

 

Granted this is the nicest stand alone I have installed to date, so I have not been spoiled. Judging by what I see at the monitor, it comes very close in performance to the PC based Geovision and I-View Systems I have worked with that cost 2x to 3x as much. Though it lacks many of their advanced features, it seems to have everything most home owners and small business customers that I have worked with are asking for. It falls in their budget to boot.

I have also been very happy with the Speco CVC-EX550 for the same reason bike_rider mentioned. Though I have found the pivot point of it's mount can allow water to get in if completely exposed to our North West rains. I use a dab of silicone now to eliminate the problem.

 

 

Regarding Video Systems acting as a deterrent, I have had a few success stories. The biggest is a large auto body shop that had problems with people jumping the fence into their "Bull Pen" to vandalize and break into cars. Over a 2 year period, they averaged one incident a month. I installed several dummy cams "Real housings, glass slightly tinted and real cables running into building" along with CCTV Warning signs.

Last time I inquired, it had dropped down to 2 incidents in 3 years.

I am not, nor would ever consider going into business of just selling dummy systems ... but so far it seems they can't hurt. I also could not agree more in that CCTV falls well behind other priorities in the steps to real security.