Need DVR recommendation

[BenR 0]

Hello,

 

I'm looking for a 16 channel DVR with remote viewing to moniter a gas station QuikieMart. We need a DVR that can provide 31 days of recording with audio and records in real time recording or something close to real time. We are currently using a Panasonic time lapse vcr with a Robot multiplexor. This setup works fine except the playback skips too many frames so it's hard to keep track of the cashier's cash handling.

 

So far I've looked at Kalatel, Panasonic, Dedicated Micros, Vitek, Rugged-cctv and Everfocus. I'm not exactly familiar with the technical aspects of DVRs so I'm not eactly sure which is appropriate for our needs. The following is what I've researched from the internet and speaking to suppliers.

 

Kalatel: DVMRe-16CT320A - $4275 Expensive, Reliable, good features,

Have not seen its remote viewing demo.

 

Panasonic: WJ-hd316 320GB - $4524 Expensive. Lots of features. Have not hard anybody using it. Brand name. The panasonic vcr has been very reliable.

 

Dedicated Micros: DS2P DX16C 320GB - $4600 Expensive. Good features. I saw the demo on their websit. Picture was good but the motion was jerky. Maybe too many people accessing it?

 

Vitek: vt-dvr16400 400GB $2480

Link: http://www.at-fairfax.com/DVR/VitekDvr.htm#VTDVR

Good price. Good Features. Reliability unknown. Saw the demo, motion was good, but the picture quility was not as good as the DM.

 

Rugged-cctv: Elx 16 channel 500GB $3600

Link: http://www.rugged-cctv.com/ELX16-240Brochure.pdf

Good features. Unknown company. Unknown reliability. Saw their demo on their website. Picture quality was good, motion was OK. Has the option to daisy chain external firewire hard drives.

 

EverFocus: EDSR1600/600gb $2050 Very good price. Good Features. Not too sure about reliablity. Have not seen demo.

[joelh 0]

Hi BenR,

 

Personally I would not use a "true embedded DVR" as most people would call it. If you are going through a reseller chances are if something happens to it the DVR will need to go over seas to get repaired.

 

I prefer to use PC based system because almost anyone you know would be able to repair the DVR. In most case the only possible thing that goes wrong would be hardware.

 

I have just started actively reposting on these forums and it looks like GeoVision is the DVR of choice. The good thing about GV is that they are always coming out with new and updated software, which is a good thing.

 

I don't mind researching information for you as long as it does not take up to much time. If you have any questions just let me know.

 

The main reason why I suggest the research is because from my experience from my customers, there are many fly by night companies. A lot of people purchase a product and are never sent the correct system they ordered.

 

Anyway I have had a long day and I hope what I wrote makes some sense to you.

 

Cheers,

 

Joel

[cctv_down_under 0]

Yes Geo is the best PC can offer, but here marketing is absolutley awefull and I can not speak to highly of their ethics, if you really want embedded then the Kalatel or the DM are both excellent, I would have imagined the DM to be cheaper actually.

 

Points, DM is the worlds best selling unit, so you would imagine that reliability is excellent, The DM has better components than Kalatel.

Kalatel ahs loads more features and althout it is ten times harder to use first time round, it is actually quite brilliant once you get used to it and getting used to it is fairly easy, the way they do it is confucing at first but after a while it kills the DM.

 

Both are stable, both are way overpriced but both should have good resellers so therefore good support.

 

If it were me I would choose the DM, but only if it were cheaper, neither will give you real time recording, only a PC will do that.

[rory 0]

If your on the US side, then i would go Kalatel over DM, it is cheaper and has more features. Its remote software is more powerful also, includes mutli site feature that allows 1 window to view from up to 16 other Kalatel DVRs, in up to a 64 camera view (great for plasmas/LCD/projection).

 

You wont get real time on any embedded with 16 cameras, at least not in Highest quality. Everfocus does not compare with DM or Kalatel, it is not even in the same league. Rugged CCTV is the same league as Everfocus, cheapo DVR, it looks like an OEM. The everfocus display and playback quality is lower than the Kalatel, it is ok for a cheap installation though. However I dont sell them anymore.

 

If you want a demo of a Kalatel DVR online PM/Email me. I wrote my own software (3mb) or you can download the WaveReader(50mb) one from GE's site.

 

Also, using the Kalatel as an example, in a 24 hour gas station here, using 8 cameras and a 320GB DVR, at 10pps setting (as total is 60pps on this DVR), I get 28 days, more if using motion recording. Ofcourse that is not super fast, it is multiplexed, but I do not miss anything. As for real time, using 3 cameras with a 30pps recorder on Motion only, 40GB, i get 2+ months, not much traffic, and when it records, if only one camera picks up motion it IS in real time. It divides the speed between the amount of cameras picking up motion.

 

Ofcourse remote video will not be in real time unless both internet connections are super fast, and most cant pay for that.

 

If you are looking at the GE DVMRe get the PRO version instead as it is 120pps, the CT is only 60pps.

 

DVMRe-Pro-320CDRW $4400

http://www.spytown.com/dvmre-pro16-320cdrw.html

 

DVMRe-CT-320A $4200

http://www.spytown.com/dvmre-16ct-320a.html

 

Only $200 difference, its not worth buying the CT anymore, unless you want the slim look.

 

One last thing, I havent had to go back to any of these Kalatel DVRs in over 3 years since they were installed, they are plug and play machines, no updates are required unless you want to, they do upgrade their embedded software frequently also, but you can update it over the internet easily.

 

Kalatel DVRs are the easiest ones I have used so far, much less complicated than Everfocus, DM, etc. You just have to plug them in and dont worry, it does it all for you. Set up is simple also. But then I say the same thing about Ademco Alarm programming, while somehow others find it difficult, same can be said for ASP and VB programming, depends on the users technical ability. The Kalatel's newer firmware is even easier. You can also program the entire DVR with WaveReader over the internet. Its just not as pretty as DM's software, but way more powerful.

 

Rory

[heloder 0]

Ok, here is my two cents. If you want something low down and dirty that will do a good job … use the Kodicom 516. Good price, all the features of PC based, all the stability of embedded.

 

http://www.kodicom.com/www2004_01/Products/Eng/Prod_ksr516.asp

 

BTW, we laugh about the Geo systems.

[cctv_down_under 0]

All the features LOL

 

nice try

[cctv_down_under 0]

You wont get real time on any embedded with 16 cameras

 

Rory this simply is not true!! OOOPS shpould have read further, actually I did see one that does it in full frame but Bugger me it was expensive, you are right about nothing doing real time unless in small format.. not in standalone anyhow.

 

You took my point wrong about the Kaltel ease of use, what I meant was it takes a bit to get used to the Jog Shuttle and menu system, cant rememebr how many times I cursed as I hit the wrong butoon or would the knowb the wrong way.. But like I said, the second day I used it, I found this approach to be excellent, because I was used to it by then, bit like playing Golf left handed and then discovering you should have been doing it all along.

 

kalatel leaves DM behind for features but Dm is very prettied up and handles more like a PC, maybe thats why I like it. Both are excellent and I would buy which ever was cheaper at the time.

 

PS plenty of Standalones are way faster, cheaper and almost as good as these units, speed is not much of a requirement over there but it is here so they are not as popular as they should be.

[rory 0]

We're on the same page finally

 

What i dont get, is who wants to buy a DVR then only record in low resolution...

 

One thing I like about the Kalatel DVRs is the built in Disk Analysis when looking for events/motion.

[cctv_down_under 0]

Yeh I was fond of that.. all those pretty lil colours

[heloder 0]

All the features LOL

 

nice try

 

What features do you want?

[cctv_down_under 0]

Ok try these..

 

Camera Pop up.

GSM messaging

Infa red remote control

Electronic mapping

16 CH audio

Ausio two way

POS interface

Left Object Detector

Stolen Object Detector

Propriatory Codec

Control room

Ping Alive Software

Lock Up of desktop and disable CTRL ALT DELETE

Filters for video sampling,

Built in AGC

Motion Tracking by software and PTZ

Built in Back light Compensation

Non latency Audio

Touch Screen Interface

Flag Important Data.

Video / Email Sent on Camera Loss

 

Thats just the ones released this week!

[rory 0]

these are the features I see are unique, and some of them I dont know/understand what they mean?

 

Camera Pop up. (i get this one

GSM messaging

Infa red remote control - neat

Electronic mapping -ok, but just more work

16 CH audio - cool

Ausio two way -cool (audio?)

Left Object Detector ?

Stolen Object Detector ?

Control room

Ping Alive Software -?

Filters for video sampling, ?

Motion Tracking by software and PTZ - neat and unique

Built in Back light Compensation - cool

Non latency Audio ??

Flag Important Data. ?

 

These are more typical found DVR features:

 

POS interface - in most DVRs now

Propriatory Codec - many have this now

Control room - some others have this

Lock Up of desktop and disable CTRL ALT DELETE - only for windows

Built in AGC - most have this

Touch Screen Interface - anyone can add this (www.earthLCD.com)

Video / Email Sent on Camera Loss - many have this now or at least images sent (but video sent is neat)

 

any more ?

[heloder 0]

How many people use all these features after the first 3 weeks? DVR’s just become something to playback video. I don't mean to downplay the importance of good features, but i think that stability, quality and ease of use are the most important long term must have items.

[rory 0]

but i think that stability, quality and ease of use are the most important long term must have items.

 

In that case a GE Kalatel DVR would be your best bet

[heloder 0]

Ok, but they are $$$. And I think the remote quality stinks. Maybe I have the old software.

[rory 0]

Jkiding...

 

Jason, what DVR are you carrying now? Are you selling the Sunnel DVRS?

 

Rory

[heloder 0]

Sunell and Kodicom. I really like the new Kodicom 516. Sunell is great quality, but they don't have a 16Ch yet. So... we sell the 516 to those who need a 16 ch. Still move a TON of PC. I just can't get our current dealer base interested in embedded. I think if we had more reps this would change. It seems that people who search the web are looking for PC based units, and traditional dealers are the embedded guys.

[rory 0]

Ok, but they are $$$. And I think the remote quality stinks. Maybe I have the old software.

 

probably... great remote quality from the DVRs i have used..i also have my own software if you want to give it a wirl (3mb compared to 50mb wavereader).

 

but yes, major $$, less than others though like DM etc..

 

Rory

[heloder 0]

I must admit, the new GE software looks good. I've not seen it for sometime.

 

I know you know Kodiocm. Have you looked at the 516?

[rory 0]

yep, I think you sent me some info on it? I just downloaded a PDF from your site to look at later. They look alot like the Nuvico DVRs, is that the one? What kind of $$ are they though? I can get Kalatel for $3200(edited) 16 channel with CDRW.

 

but my main problem is I have no $$ to buy products to demo or sell either way, I can only sell what I know right now, economy is terrible here right now, things are tough, my brother just left to live in the UK. And the local government is not even encouraging investment, or they are screwing us locals while encouraging hotel investment who get everything Duty free and import workers from the US care of the local government ..

Edited October 29, 2004 by Guest

[heloder 0]

KSR-516 for much less.

[heloder 0]

you have PM

[cctv_down_under 0]

these are the features I see are unique, and some of them I dont know/understand what they mean?

 

Camera Pop up. (i get this one

GSM messaging

Infa red remote control - neat

Electronic mapping -ok, but just more work

16 CH audio - cool

Ausio two way -cool (audio?)

Left Object Detector ?

Stolen Object Detector ?

Control room

Ping Alive Software -?

Filters for video sampling, ?

Motion Tracking by software and PTZ - neat and unique

Built in Back light Compensation - cool

Non latency Audio ??

Flag Important Data. ?

 

These are more typical found DVR features:

 

POS interface - in most DVRs now

Propriatory Codec - many have this now

Control room - some others have this

Lock Up of desktop and disable CTRL ALT DELETE - only for windows

Built in AGC - most have this

Touch Screen Interface - anyone can add this (www.earthLCD.com)

Video / Email Sent on Camera Loss - many have this now or at least images sent (but video sent is neat)

 

GSM Messaging is excellent because can work like this.... car gets stolen,s ends to control room, control room automatically sends SMS message to person.

 

Audio Two way, listen in and Speak to site

 

Left Object.. any object that is left behid by a person, egample a suitcase, will activate alert and I/O email or straight to Control room, for example and airport with say 90 cameras is a pain to monitor, but if control room gets special notification for lost object and flashing object, within two seconds can see the object left behind.

 

Missing Object... the oposite...Great feature.. example, Diamond shop pulls out 5 diamonds to show customer, if one is not returned sends alarm or shows on screen, pretty good if safe gets stolen too, another example is to park car outside as soon as car moves from scene video sent to control room, control room sends SMS, operator at control room then speaks through speakers to you and can even activate your alarm.

 

Ping Alive, pings all DVR's in the world to make sure all are responding, also has built in data for which DVR's recieve things like, No Sales on POS, left objects, Cameras down, recording's stopped.

 

Filters for video recordings.... Equalisation, Back light, Sharpen effects and scaling etc, applied to your recorded file on playback.

 

Control room is more advanced than most with Databasing and alerts set for anything from register transations, panic alarms, loss of video, recording stop etc etc, plus has Despatch server to farm out to other control rooms.

 

Audio Latency, most codecs have a latency with audio (lip sync delay etc), there is now no latency.

 

Flag Data, lets you flag data you have watched so it will never be overwritten, so you do not have to get it off the machine by a set time before overwritten and can be backed up later, also I/O alerts can be set to automatically flag video data asociated with them as I/O alerts are more accurate.

 

Touch screen is different it makes fat ICONS made for touch screen.

 

Pos is different, its not just an overlay, it is a searchable database and can be seen remotely through web.

 

 

MORE OK... But most have these..

 

400 FPS Display and Record

De Interlace Rendering

Twin Servering

Multicasting

PDA support

Imode Support

Direct Draw Overlay

Thaumbnail Viewing...all frames from AVI diplayed on one screen

Multiple screen support for multiple apps, for eg. Log on one monitor viewing on other

Search missing objects history by painting the object

Counting applications.. counts people traffic and anything directionally, if someone goes wrong way it alarms, hell you could count all traffic in one area and if car travels wrong way up a street it will alarm.

Register

Graphical representation of Motion detected by hour.

Automatic Frame buffering to cameras that have high motion.

Replacable desktop

On the fly frame measurement, try the preview to adjust your codec and watch the created file size for each frame.

System log of all events, I/O's Transations, User input (stop recording etc)

Click any PTZ camera on screen and it changes to its protocol, so you can put many camera types of PTZ and not have to change protocol each time you want to view one.

Active Object Index... sure you know someone scratched your car but what time.. poop lots of files to check, well pick a days events and see the pictures of the first frame of AVI, then click it and takes you to that part of the recording... very handy, you can leave this on the screen and then you get pictures of whats being recorded on main screen.

Object zooming.. have the PTZ zoom in on a person as they walk throught he dorr, on motion detection..

 

 

 

NAH NO MORE TYPING.. YES THERE ARE MANY MORE FEATURES

[heloder 0]

There are a ton.... but again. How often are these used after the first 3 weeks?

[rory 0]

Cool, does GEO make their own cards or do others make it and they make the software? Sounds more like they are a software company with alot of time on their hands )