Which is better for Day/Night? Arecont 3130 or 3100DN

[stealthyb 0]

Hi all,

 

I'm trying to decide between a couple of Arecont cameras for day/night application at my house

 

It looks like I have 2 options:

1. The 3 Megapixel day/night version (AV3100DN or AV3105DN)

2. The 3 Megapixel color sensor and 1.3 Megapixel BW sensor dual-lens version (AV3130)

 

The day/night version has a mechanical Infrared cut-filter and I could get 3 Megapixel for color and B&W.

 

Does anyone have any opinions on which camera would provide a better night image? A infrared cut filter or a dedicated B&W sensor?

[Kiwi 0]

One advantage with the DN types is that the resolution doesn't change when it switches over. It's a pain on the 3130.

 

But the DN doesn't support an AI lens if I understand the specs correctly, an essential feature and a plus towards the 3130 as the mono side lens can be left wide open.

Personally I would not buy another Arecont unless it was very inexpensive. Have you looked at the IQeye range?

[stealthyb 0]

I forgot the DN versions can't support the auto-iris. I guess I don't understand the purpose of the Day/Night version then. Isn't the whole reason of getting a DN type of camera because lighting conditions vary? And isn't the purpose of the auto-iris lens to control light exposure (I'm in Phoenix, Arizona so it's usually bright)? Seems like you would need both.

 

Most of my research has been around Avigilon (which is not tailored for residential) and Arecont. IQeye is on my list of HD IP cam vendors, but I haven't put a lot of research into them yet, but they seem to cost significantly more than Arecont.

[metafizx 0]

I just bought the 3100DN and although the pic is nice during the day, it isn't very useful at night.

 

This is because there is no AI, and to get a clear image during the day, I have to close down the iris some. Which creates a problem for night time.

So without AI feature, I think the 3100DN isn't useful for viewing both day and night with optimum settings.

 

I was happy with the Axis 223, because it had IR cutfilter, and AI. The only problem was the resolution. Now they have 223M but I got the Arecont because of the price difference.

 

The problem now is there isn't a Arecont 3100xx camera that has both IR Cut filter and AI, sorely needed.

 

I too, have been wondering about the 3130 camera, but am afraid to gamble another $700 bucks to try it out.

 

My first goal is high quality images in both day and night. The second goal was to read license plates. To do this, I need as much light as possible coming in the camera at night (with aid of IR Illuminators), but still I might be dreaming because of the exposure time will blur out the plates when the vehicle is moving.

 

The plates show up clear during the day when it is bright. Cars are moving about 10-20mph and I can make out the plates pretty consistently.

[ak357 0]

I just bought the 3100DN and although the pic is nice during the day, it isn't very useful at night.

 

he plates show up clear during the day when it is bright. Cars are moving about 10-20mph and I can make out the plates pretty consistently.

 

 

Any day/night pix samples plzzzzzzzz

Thx

[stealthyb 0]

@Kiwi -- Why did you say the 3130 was a pain? Was it because the resolution difference between the cameras didn't give you the same zoom capability?

 

 

@metafizx -- I'm curious where Arecont intends for the the Day/Night cameras to be used then. If you have a fixed iris that works in the day, does that mean I would need an equivalent amount of IR illuminators to make it seem like "IR daylight"? That's pretty unreasonable.

 

Anyone from Arecont care to comment on why the DN versions don't have auto-iris?

[metafizx 0]

 

@metafizx -- I'm curious where Arecont intends for the the Day/Night cameras to be used then. If you have a fixed iris that works in the day, does that mean I would need an equivalent amount of IR illuminators to make it seem like "IR daylight"? That's pretty unreasonable.

 

Anyone from Arecont care to comment on why the DN versions don't have auto-iris?

 

exactly the question I have. I feel pretty dumb now to have bought this camera without AI. it is pretty useless IMHO.

[CollinR 0]

What do you guys have the AES set to? I ask as I have had on up for a while and have not noticed this. Mine is the older style big box with no AI options. I run it BW with the filter removed, no problems day or night.

[metafizx 0]

What do you guys have the AES set to? I ask as I have had on up for a while and have not noticed this. Mine is the older style big box with no AI options. I run it BW with the filter removed, no problems day or night.

 

hi, well there aren't a lot of options available, but this is what I have it set to currently:

 

Illumination : Auto

Misc : Auto Exposure (just a checkbox)

Day/Night : Auto

Gains: not set (default)

Low Light Mode : either Balanced or Moonlight

 

Moonlight gives me way more exposure time, hence a better picture in low light, but the exposure time is very long. Anything moving is blurry.

[stealthyb 0]

What do you guys have the AES set to? I ask as I have had on up for a while and have not noticed this. Mine is the older style big box with no AI options. I run it BW with the filter removed, no problems day or night.

 

I wonder if a megapixel BW camera with auto-iris and no IR cut filter would be cheaper since it doesn't need to do color.

 

Does your camera have a manual iris then? Do you run it wide open?

[stealthyb 0]

In case anyone was still interested, I asked Arecont about the Day/Night vs. Auto-Iris and here was the response:

 

"It’s not necessary to have iris “mostly closedâ€

[metafizx 0]

In case anyone was still interested, I asked Arecont about the Day/Night vs. Auto-Iris and here was the response:

 

"It’s not necessary to have iris “mostly closedâ€

[stealthyb 0]

My problem with their statement, is the image is not in good focus with the iris fully open in daylight. that is why the iris is closed down to get a sharp picture. I know the autogain will compensate, but it's a matter of sharpness.

 

perhaps I have to get a better lens. I am using a 1/2" Computar 4.5-12.5mm F1.2 IR lens, which I thought was a good lens.

 

Any comments on the lens or why the image is not in sharp focus when the iris is wide open ?

 

I read this article yesterday which was interesting.

http://www.techrepvideo.com/ADN.html

 

From that article and the Arecont support response, it sounds like everything should be in focus day or night, so I don't know.

[metafizx 0]

In case anyone was still interested, I asked Arecont about the Day/Night vs. Auto-Iris and here was the response:

 

"It’s not necessary to have iris “mostly closedâ€

[Kiwi 0]

Yep, lenses can make a huge difference. Neither of those seem to be megapixel lenses either, something else to try. I have not done that myself - can't get that sort of stuff here and no one will ship here either without a wire transfer. These pics have been on this board for more than six months, dragged them out for show.

 

With the simple 4mm lenses supplied by Arecont:

 

Daytime 1920 x 1200 http://tinyurl.com/2ew5ug (lots of IR focus shift)

 

Nighttime 1280 x 1024 http://tinyurl.com/2wjpot

 

 

With a pair of 16mm 2/3" CCTV lenses, high-quality machine vision type, f/5.6 day, f/1.4 night (edited)

 

>at 2048 x 1536 (the full 3 MP) http://tinyurl.com/2wckan

 

> night, 1280 x 848 full res but vertically cropped http://tinyurl.com/6hl6wv

 

> at 1024px × 768px, half res, different white balance setting, and inside a housing http://tinyurl.com/29bfsz (my current configuration)

 

Selected portion of image, 704px × 544px, using command line options http://tinyurl.com/29tnlv

 

I know I could improve the image with a multi-megapixel lens but it's just being used as a webcam for now.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Guest

[thewireguys 3]

Yep, lenses can make a huge difference. Neither of those seem to be megapixel lenses either, something else to try. I have not done that myself - can't get that sort of stuff here and no one will ship here either without a wire transfer. These pics have been on this board for more than six months, dragged them out for show.

 

With the simple 4mm lenses supplied by Arecont:

 

Daytime 1920 x 1200 http://tinyurl.com/2ew5ug (lots of IR focus shift)

 

Nighttime 1280 x 1024 http://tinyurl.com/2wjpot

 

 

With a pair of 16mm 1/3" CCTV lenses, high-quality machine vision type, f/5.6 day, f/1.4 night

 

>at 2048 x 1536 (the full 3 MP) http://tinyurl.com/2wckan

 

> night, 1280 x 848 full res but vertically cropped http://tinyurl.com/6hl6wv

 

> at 1024px × 768px, half res, different white balance setting, and inside a housing http://tinyurl.com/29bfsz (my current configuration)

 

Selected portion of image, 704px × 544px, using command line options http://tinyurl.com/29tnlv

 

I know I could improve the image with a multi-megapixel lens but it's just being used as a webcam for now.

 

That is the best image I have seen from a 3130. The Arecont lens are crap.

[robert 0]

Regarding day/night versions of Arecont. I was confused as well that they dont have auto iris support and dropped email to Arecont support which was replied as "Digital cameras dont need AI lenses as they digitally correct amount of light. Analog cameras cant do that, so they need auto iris to decrease bright sun for example. Auto Iris as fact will dissapear in next few years."

 

To be honest, Arecont cameras are fantastic value for money at day time, but crap at night Picture quality is not that you would expect. Lot of noise, blurry moving objects. Haven`t tried IQinvision, but have heard that they are more better, so costing more as well.

 

I usually use lot of light when installing Arecont DN cameras, as least 500w illuminator with motion detection sensor with Philips/Osram 2000h bulb. I think some years will go till megapixel cameras will start beating analog cameras at night.

 

 

Also - doing all settings is quite painful thing. DO NOT try saving money on lense, Arecont ones are CRAP. Use Tamron, Fujinon or Computar.

[metafizx 0]

Regarding day/night versions of Arecont. I was confused as well that they dont have auto iris support and dropped email to Arecont support which was replied as "Digital cameras dont need AI lenses as they digitally correct amount of light. Analog cameras cant do that, so they need auto iris to decrease bright sun for example. Auto Iris as fact will dissapear in next few years."

 

To be honest, Arecont cameras are fantastic value for money at day time, but crap at night Picture quality is not that you would expect. Lot of noise, blurry moving objects. Haven`t tried IQinvision, but have heard that they are more better, so costing more as well.

 

I usually use lot of light when installing Arecont DN cameras, as least 500w illuminator with motion detection sensor with Philips/Osram 2000h bulb. I think some years will go till megapixel cameras will start beating analog cameras at night.

 

 

Also - doing all settings is quite painful thing. DO NOT try saving money on lense, Arecont ones are CRAP. Use Tamron, Fujinon or Computar.

 

I have both Arecont 3100DN and IQinvision IP7152 (D/N)

 

I will try to make a comparison of the night time performance, right now I have the Arecont out in the test area. I'll put up the IQinvision next.

 

Initially I put a Computar 1/2 IR lens on the 3100DN but could not get a sharp focus in bright light with the iris wide open. So I had to close it down, but that killed the night vision. So now I have a Tamron Aspherical IR and that seems to work a lot better.

 

The IQinvision camera has a lot of firmware controls for the user to tweak the image, where Arecont doesn't. Also the IQinvision lenses are pretty decent.

[robert 0]

That would be great if you could set up both and provide day and night images from both

[ak357 0]

 

 

Initially I put a Computar 1/2 IR lens on the 3100DN but could not get a sharp focus in bright light with the iris wide open. So I had to close it down, but that killed the night vision. So now I have a Tamron Aspherical IR

 

Can u tell us plz part number for Tamron ?

Thx

[metafizx 0]

 

 

Initially I put a Computar 1/2 IR lens on the 3100DN but could not get a sharp focus in bright light with the iris wide open. So I had to close it down, but that killed the night vision. So now I have a Tamron Aspherical IR

 

Can u tell us plz part number for Tamron ?

Thx

 

These are the ones I ordered:

1/2" Aspherical IR 12VM412ASIR MANUAL IRIS 4-12MM

1/2" Aspherical IR 12VM1040ASIR MANUAL IRIS 10-40MM

[metafizx 0]

That would be great if you could set up both and provide day and night images from both

 

they both have night integration modes, which are not that useful to me for capturing anything moving. They do work awesome for viewing in total darkness however, but because of the integrated frames, anything moving will be a blur.

 

I will try to make comparisons with both night integration on and off.

[ak357 0]

These are the ones I ordered:

1/2" Aspherical IR 12VM412ASIR MANUAL IRIS 4-12MM

1/2" Aspherical IR 12VM1040ASIR MANUAL IRIS 10-40MM

 

Thx for info

I do have 12VM412ASIR

good lense but it is not megapix

[thewireguys 3]

I would like to see a list of lenses that fit 3130m.

[metafizx 0]

wondering if anyone had poor performance with Arecont 3100DN at night ?

 

It seems that the Arecont sensor has poor IR response. I have a Tamron IR lens installed currently, also tried a Computar IR lens as well. Even with very strong IR lamps, I cannot get much illumination of the area.

 

If I turn on the "moonlight" mode, the illumination is much better, however the exposure time is very long and pretty useless for anything moving.

 

However with the IQinvision 752, the IR lamps light up the area with no problem. (LightGrabber is disabled). Adding even 1x LightGrabber gives much better illumination, without too much exposure time increase.

 

Comparing both camera night images, the Arecont 3100DN is almost black, whereas the IQ 752 shows the same area quite clearly, without any IR lamps.

 

Unless there is something wrong with the Arecont setup, I think this camera is not very good for night viewing. During the day it is fine, and has very clear images.