Can i please get some ideas on quality cameras for my home.

[pearlite TL 0]

I have some areas i would like to cover around my home.

I would like all my cameras be HIGH Res and around 540+ TVL

 

I will give specs and descriptions to best of knowledge to help out.

I would like all cameras to be either white or Silver

 

Back Porch:

Camera will be looking at a door and also the ONLY entrance up on the back deck.

The camera will be seeing an area approx 10x10 and will have motion lighting but will need IR just in case

 

Side of House:

Will be looking at the Garage doors:

The camera will be seeing an area approx 30x30 and will have motion lighting but will need IR just in case

 

Side of House looking at Gate:

This camera will be looking at the entrance gate into my driveway

The camera will need to see an area approx 10x10 but needs to see over 150 foot away and will not have any lighting so IR is A MUST!

 

Downstairs:

This camera will be inside downstairs

The camera will need to see an area approx 30x30 wide angle and have IR. also the lights will not be on at any given time.

 

If there is anything else i need to add in here please just let me know and Thanks for the effort you put into this.

[cglaeser 0]

I would like all my cameras be HIGH Res and around 540+ TVL

 

Why? Why are you installing cameras? For example, is this a nanny cam to make sure the kids are well treated? Do you need to ID a burglar if your home is burglarized at night? Start with the requirements and budget, and then proceed from there.

 

Best,

Christopher

[pearlite TL 0]

Cameras are being installed just for the simple fact i have friends today getting things stolen from their house or their neighbors getting broken into.

I live in a very good area and haven't had any problems but i wanna be ready when it does happen and in today's society theft is up!

i pretty much live at the condo in the summer and would like to keep an eye on the house when out of town.

I don't see a reason to have cameras if they didn't identify a robber or anyone else. Seems pointless to me. That is why i chose to have high Res cameras

I am looking to spend around a 1000 or less on 4 cameras

 

Am i right or wrong on this and is there a different approach i should be seeing?

[cglaeser 0]

Am i right or wrong on this and is there a different approach i should be seeing?

 

$1000 for everything? If it's an acquaintance you might get an ID, but if it's an out-of-town burglar odds are you'll only get an accurate time stamp. When the cops ask what time your TV was stolen, you'll be able to tell them 2:18 am. Precisely.

 

Best,

Christopher

[pearlite TL 0]

i understand where your coming from. No just 1000 in cameras. The DVR has already been purchased i am just needing cameras now. I must be getting the wrong outlook..... are you saying i shouldn't go with high res cams and just go with some mom and pop stuff or what. Im confused???

 

I own a dealership and had some good cams installed there and just so happen i had someone steal a truck from the detail shop and they happen to walk by the cam and got a good face shot and we found the culprit. I guess that is why i choose that route.

[cglaeser 0]

i understand where your coming from. No just 1000 in cameras. The DVR has already been purchased i am just needing cameras now. I must be getting the wrong outlook..... are you saying i shouldn't go with high res cams and just go with some mom and pop stuff or what. Im confused???

 

Even the highest res CCTV cameras don't have that much resolution. IP cameras offering one to several megapixels are commonly available. That said, quality CCTV cameras can provide good low-light capability due to the larger pixels, so the system design must take this into account. Did you get a hybrid DVR that supports both analog and IP cameras? Also, be aware that a good IP camera (e.g. Panasonic 502) can easily cost $1,000.

 

What you need to do (before selecting a DVR) is first determine the requirements, budget, and system design. Let me give you an example. I know someone who had cameras at the front and back doors and many rooms around the house. Three burglars broke into the house in the middle of the day and took many personal items. During the theft, the burglars discovered the DVR and set the house on fire. The DVR was not destroyed in the fire, and the homeowner had many well-lit day-time photos of the three suspects to give to the police, but the case remains unsolved. You might get lucky, but an ID can be really challenging.

 

Night images are considerably more problematic, because most current generation cameras do not have the necessary sensitivity, and increasing the pixel count of IP cameras exacerbates this problem. Sure, you can add IR, but the unusual reflectivity of IR makes ID even more difficult.

 

These are just a few of the issues to consider. Think total, integrated system design, that includes other features such as motion detectors, alarms, etc. You might want to consult with a CCTV security specialist in your area, but if you decide to DIY, this forum is a good resource.

 

Best,

Christopher

[pearlite TL 0]

Thanks for your advice on everything. I guess what it all boils down too is i would like to record the activity going on around my house.

 

The DVR i purchased is not a hybrid and i do not care to do a megapixel camera. That being said do you have suggestions on the types of cameras that would be suit this system?? I am not looking for PERFECT but at least of some value.

 

What is the best i can do for my house to where i will feel comfortable about it.

 

The house is already equipped with every window and door contacts, motions and a monitored system.

 

Cliffs: house is fully secured now

Would like to have a camera system i can watch from the condo or just at home that has very good quality images and will last.

[thewireguys 3]

I have some areas i would like to cover around my home.

I would like all my cameras be HIGH Res and around 540+ TVL

 

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17732&p=105493&hilit=before#p105493

 

Check out these megapixel images, top images are "HIGH Res and around 540+ TVL" and the lower images are Megapixel. Click on the images to see the full res images.

[pearlite TL 0]

I have some areas i would like to cover around my home.

I would like all my cameras be HIGH Res and around 540+ TVL

 

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17732&p=105493&hilit=before#p105493

 

Check out these megapixel images, top images are "HIGH Res and around 540+ TVL" and the lower images are Megapixel. Click on the images to see the full res images.

 

 

i know first hand what megapixel looks like as my friend has them in the college he works in and i cam to see. I like them alot but i do not need that much. i would like to stick with analog and just have the best picture that way but like i said i just wanna spend around a 1000 for all 4 cams

[cglaeser 0]

That being said do you have suggestions on the types of cameras that would be suit this system??

 

I would reserve some of the budget for a couple of Crow Daredevil PIR outdoor motion sensors. (I'd rather have three cameras with motion detection vs four cameras). I'd use the Daredevils to trigger both the cameras and an indoor chime so that I know someone is in my yard or driveway. If you really want to nab a burglar, catch them during the prowl. If you hear your PIR chime at 2:30 in the morning, get up and review the DVR, and then call the police. As for analog cameras, I prefer really good low-light performance, which generally means 1/2" or 1/3" Exview sensors in a name brand camera. You can always add IR later if there is not sufficient lighting. As an alternative, you could get cameras with IR, but I would still select the cameras based on low-light performance (i.e. when the IR is off). With today's sub $1000 cameras, you can never have enough low-light performance outside the typical home.

 

Best,

Christopher

[pearlite TL 0]

I will check out some low light cameras but as i mentioned before all cameras except for downstairs will have sufficient lights.

 

The motion lighting near the cameras will be dim at nights giving adequate light but as motion sets the flood light becomes bright so i would still get low light but i know the lighting will be adequate.

 

other than your exview do you have any other suggestions. I would like a couple different options

[drvnbysound 0]

I also wanted to note that buying a particular camera doesnt mean getting that resolution forensic data if the DVR doesnt record at that resolution. Having a D1 res camera may be great, but if your DVR only records at CIF then you may have wasted some money

 

That said, what resolution will you actually get from a 540TVL camera (QCIF, CIF, Half-D1)?

[drvnbysound 0]

Anyone?

[Soundy 1]

Multimedia "resolutions" don't really apply to analog video. "TV lines" is an indication of the vertical resolution of the sensor, but the horizontal scan lines are effectively infinite resolution, since it IS a continuous scan line.

 

Theoretically, you're not making full use of the vertical capture resolution if you record at a higher res than the camera's TVL capabilities, but in reality you'd be hard pressed to see the difference between 360/420/480/520/etc. on even a D1/4CIF recording.

[drvnbysound 0]

I dont understand where "multimedia" resolutions dont apply - I find varying resolutions on the GeoVision website for particular capture cards as well as most any DVRs. Where particular cards record at various resolutions and varying frame rates. That said, while a particular capture card could record at a D1 or 4CIF size, it doesnt necessarily represent the same resolution of a given analog camera - or thats how I am interpreting it - please advise if this is wrong. Which means that a DVR or capture card could effectively be interpolating pixels to create a resolution higher than the output of a given camera.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

What is the make and the model of your DVR that you already purchased? Regardless what type of resolution cameras or better yet, day/night cameras you use, DVR will determine what you see and what you can playback...

 

Lets say you have a decent DVR that will give you decent playback resolution (this is the key for most DVRs), regardless what CIF rate or even D1 capable, I have seen too many DVRs claiming such specs and yet, performance has been substandard. If providing that your DVR will do the job, then the rest is not really a serious issue...

 

There are quite of few outdoor cameras in the market and I can vouch only major manufacturers - pricing is very affordable and is not a $1,000 per camera...

 

Dependent on your lighting conditions at night, you can mix some day/night minidome cameras with cameras that operate with IR... Such cameras could be some bullet format or even with minidome configuration...

 

Some examples:

 

Bosch makes some very decent and affordable bullet camera... I am referring to their WZ14N, WZ16N and WZ18N series cameras... work great and does the job very nicely - pricing could range from $120 to $340 range dependent on the model... comes with three years warranty and gives you no nonsense performance... They also have minidome outdoor day/night cameras, but at higher price...

 

Panasonic, American Dynamics, GE, Sanyo and few others have decent day/night minidome performers within $250 range or even higher.. but higher price will not justify your mean - some models come with special features that are desired in commercial application and that is why the price could be much higher...

 

My suggestion is to get back to us with type of DVR you already have.. and I am sure others will jump into this thread with even more recommendations...

 

I can tell you that no IP solution out there is for you - cost vs. performance vs. maintenance vs. warranty... IP is not ready for prime time for residential applications... yet. It will make a perfect sense if the cost of the IP cameras become more reasonable and even more importantly, the IP software becomes substantially lower in cost or even better, not cost for the software... then your only other real cost will be a decent computer system with a lot of storage... so that you can take advantage of this solution... but I personally think it is not for homeowners as of yet...

[ak357 0]

I dont understand where "multimedia" resolutions dont apply - I find varying resolutions on the GeoVision website for particular capture cards as well as most any DVRs. Where particular cards record at various resolutions and varying frame rates. That said, while a particular capture card could record at a D1 or 4CIF size, it doesnt necessarily represent the same resolution of a given analog camera - or thats how I am interpreting it - please advise if this is wrong. Which means that a DVR or capture card could effectively be interpolating pixels to create a resolution higher than the output of a given camera.

 

U right DVR will always record at resolutions you set

regardless of incoming video

Of Course you final recorded video quality will depend how good your camera is

but that another story

[drvnbysound 0]

I certainly understand that video quality and recorded resolution are 2 completely different things.

 

When I look at various sites that list analog cameras they almost never (and none that I have seen thus far) list an output resolution. That said, my initial question was basically how does a 540TVL (or other TVL rates) camera relate as far as a resolution?

 

As described in my previous post, there is really no reason to have the DVR set to record at full D1 resolution if the camera isnt outputting that high of a resolution.

[drvnbysound 0]

CCTV_Suppliers:

 

I dont currently have a DVR or any cameras, but am looking to purchase some during the late spring to early summer of this year and simply doing some research beforehand.

 

I am currently looking at building a PC-based DVR with a GeoVision 8-Channel GV-1240A Combo card. The GeoVision website states that it can record 240fps @ CIF or 120fps @ D1 (both NTSC).

 

That said, Im currently in a revolving door - basically regarding analog camera output resolution. If an analog camera is only going to output @ CIF resolution, there is no need to record at D1 just to have the software duplicate or interpolate pixels to "create a large image". If that was the case I might as well take my video to CSI and have them zoom in on the target object and enhance the image as they do so well on TV... since we all know how well that really works

 

I only care to record @ 15fps, so if the camera is only going to output CIF resolution, I could save some money by going with a cheaper card that does 120fps (8 cameras x 15fps) @ CIF. If an analog camera does higher than CIF, thats fine too, Im just trying to figure out how TVL or any other spec that is given can relate to resolution.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

CCTV_Suppliers:

 

I dont currently have a DVR or any cameras, but am looking to purchase some during the late spring to early summer of this year and simply doing some research beforehand.

 

I am currently looking at building a PC-based DVR with a GeoVision 8-Channel GV-1240A Combo card. The GeoVision website states that it can record 240fps @ CIF or 120fps @ D1 (both NTSC).

 

That said, Im currently in a revolving door - basically regarding analog camera output resolution. If an analog camera is only going to output @ CIF resolution, there is no need to record at D1 just to have the software duplicate or interpolate pixels to "create a large image". If that was the case I might as well take my video to CSI and have them zoom in on the target object and enhance the image as they do so well on TV... since we all know how well that really works

 

I only care to record @ 15fps, so if the camera is only going to output CIF resolution, I could save some money by going with a cheaper card that does 120fps (8 cameras x 15fps) @ CIF. If an analog camera does higher than CIF, thats fine too, Im just trying to figure out how TVL or any other spec that is given can relate to resolution.

 

You are on the right path and asking questions to find the right components before spending anything...

 

I am not familiar with Geovision, but there are many here that do - Rory may jump in?? I hear that they are good performers. Most homeowners usually buy embedded systems at least from my experience... simple plug and play and with minimal programming requirements.. They work day in and day out without any need to "upgrade" operating system or worry about virus attacks... Most majors have them and from what I understand, other companies make them as well... But then, if you are computer savvy and set on Geo card and the software, then that will be fine too...

 

The quality of the picture that you need is very much dependent on presence of the light and that is what you should consider before making any decisions... just scan the areas at night to find out if you have light or could install some motion detection lighting.. Eventually it could be cheaper to go to this route than considering IR based cameras... stay away already put together packages... pick your components based on aesthetics (heck it is your home after all and you want it to look good too) and lighting conditions and you could have different type of camera at each angle... it is your preference at the end anyway. Once you make this determination, then it will be easier to shop for specific camera components...

[Soundy 1]

First of all, all analog cameras output at the same resolution: 486 interlaced lines for NTSC composite video standard, 576 lines for PAL. These are the specifications of the video standard and must be complied with for communication to work properly.

 

The "TVL" measurements you're reading refer mainly to the resolution of the SENSOR. So effectively, with low-TVL sensors, the camera is upscaling the picture... and as with upscaling DVD players and TVs, some do the job better than others.

[rory 0]

I am not familiar with Geovision, but there are many here that do - Rory may jump in??

I see the post, but I cant find a question in it

 

Put it to 640x480 deinterlaced though.

The camera at 420TVL for example may have 520x493 pixels, which is better then CIF 320x240. The actual file size will still be small, even though it is 640x480.

[drvnbysound 0]

I am not familiar with Geovision, but there are many here that do - Rory may jump in?? I hear that they are good performers. Most homeowners usually buy embedded systems at least from my experience... simple plug and play and with minimal programming requirements.. They work day in and day out without any need to "upgrade" operating system or worry about virus attacks... Most majors have them and from what I understand, other companies make them as well... But then, if you are computer savvy and set on Geo card and the software, then that will be fine too...

 

The quality of the picture that you need is very much dependent on presence of the light and that is what you should consider before making any decisions... just scan the areas at night to find out if you have light or could install some motion detection lighting.. Eventually it could be cheaper to go to this route than considering IR based cameras... stay away already put together packages... pick your components based on aesthetics (heck it is your home after all and you want it to look good too) and lighting conditions and you could have different type of camera at each angle... it is your preference at the end anyway. Once you make this determination, then it will be easier to shop for specific camera components...

 

I certainly want a PC based system as I can set specific parameters via software for recording (ie. depending on motion in specific areas of a given field-of-view). Not to mention the flexibility of storage of a PC .... to RAID and/or add terabytes upon terabytes of storage. Then add in remote access (not that you cant remotely view cameras on a standard DVR setup), but also control cameras (PTZ), or even do it through GeoVisions iPhone/iTouch application ..... Yeah, I definitely want a PC based system

 

I certainly understand that lighting will play a huge role in video quality of night-time images. I am probably going to go for some very low lux day/night cameras. I do have 4 flood lights that light up my front yard pretty well - I will have to play with camera placement some and make sure the lights arent washing out the cameras at night... but again, most of my questions were regarding actual camera resolutions... video quality is a whole 'nother beast

 

Ive certainly been in some discussions regarding video quality - such as how large the target (person, vehicle, etc) needs to be in your FOV for recognition or identification, actual lighting quality (day or night), white balance, display calibration, etc. which can all assist in identification regarding flesh tones ... yeah.. as said, video quality is another subject in itself

 

EDIT: Not to mention that with PC-based DVRs (no idea about standard DVRs) I can embed coding of the video streams into automation software (such as Homeseer or CQC) allowing the cameras to be viewed on touchpanel controls as well

Edited February 18, 2010 by Guest

[drvnbysound 0]

First of all, all analog cameras output at the same resolution: 486 interlaced lines for NTSC composite video standard, 576 lines for PAL. These are the specifications of the video standard and must be complied with for communication to work properly.

 

The "TVL" measurements you're reading refer mainly to the resolution of the SENSOR. So effectively, with low-TVL sensors, the camera is upscaling the picture... and as with upscaling DVD players and TVs, some do the job better than others.

 

Thanks for that info.. thats certainly helpful and along the lines of where I was trying to get.

 

Knowing that, a general 4:3 native image from a composite video source would then be roughly 648x486. I suppose that means as long as the TVL numbers (which you say are for the SENSOR) are greater than 486 then camera itself wouldnt be doing any scaling of its own - or at least it wouldnt make since to upscale the image, to then downscale to NTSC composite standard.

 

Which then leads me to rory's entry above...

 

Thanks guys for helping me wrap my head around this

[drvnbysound 0]

I am not familiar with Geovision, but there are many here that do - Rory may jump in??

I see the post, but I cant find a question in it

 

Put it to 640x480 deinterlaced though.

The camera at 420TVL for example may have 520x493 pixels, which is better then CIF 320x240. The actual file size will still be small, even though it is 640x480.

 

My question has certainly been answered at this point, but trying to put an explanation to my above thoughts..

 

Basically was that I didnt want to be recording at a HIGH resolution (1280x1024 - EXTREME EXAGGERATION) if the camera was only outputting 640x480 - simply to have the card or software "upscale" and pixelate the image more than necessary. So I was trying to work backwards, from the cameras resolution, to determine what resolution I would most likely want to record at.