Need advise on system and components. Please HELP!

[tomboyt 0]

My husband and I have a Pub & Grill where we need to install a cctv security camera system. I have spent several days reading many of the posts on this forum. You all seem to know your stuff, so I would like to ask for your help in choosing a 16 channel dvr, cameras, and other esential components. I was hoping to only spend around $2000 but can go to $3500. Haven't been in business for a year yet so money is tight. I don't want to go overboard and buy more than I need, but I don't mind spending a little more to get what I do. If my budget is not enough, please advise anyway and perhaps in another month or two I can afford it.

 

Here is what I need-

(1) 16 channel dvr that will record at high enough resolution to identify individuals as well as what they are up to. I would like to have a dvr that records at a fast enough fps rate so that a person has not taken 2 steps before the next frame is recorded. If it is more cost effective I would like to purchase a dvr that we can install our own harddrives and dvd burner into. I would prefer to have audio on all 16 channels/cameras. Most imprtantly I want audio on all or most of the cameras inside the building. I want to be able to remotely view these cameras from home as well as from an iphone and other 3g smartphone.

 

(2) cameras in the bar over the Micros computer systems. I really need something high resolution that works well in low light conditions for these two. Even during the day it is dimly lit in these areas. I want to be able to see my bartender, the drinks he pours, and what he is entering on the Micros system. My budget may not allow for it now, but eventually I would like to add one of these POS text overlay gadgets to each of these cameras.

 

(1) camera in waitstation. This area has dim lighting as well.

 

(1)camera for walk-in cooler. The temperature ranges from 38-41 degrees. This area is about 7'x15'. All the beer is kept in here and I want to be able to see every inch possible.

 

(1) IR camera for the liquor closet. 8' x 6' I would like to be able to distingusish what liquor they are pulling off the shelves, but I don't neccesarily have to be able to read the labels.

 

(2) IR cameras for front entry way and office. These would need to be high enough resolution to make identifying a person fairly easy. If there are walkouts or in the event of a robbery during business hours, these would be the only two cameras that would have a chance to capture footage of anyone in a public area.

***At a later date (when I have more $$) on the front entry way camera I would like to split the signal and have a monitor in the bar so the bartender can see who is coming in before they get to the bar area.

 

(4) IR cameras for various other areas such as kitchen, pantry, dishwasing area, storage, and hallway. No special needs in these areas. We mostly want to make sure people are working. These areas are lit well during work hours. I just thought IR would be better in case of a break in during the night when we are closed.

 

(5) IR outdoor cameras for viewing the parking lot. 2 of these I can mount fairly high up on a decorative chimney(out of the weather) for a better field of view. So maybe I need something a little higher in resolution to make up for the distance? The other 3 will be mounted out of reach on the side of the building. Because of where they will be mounted I don't think vandal proof cameras are neccesary.

 

I think that makes 16 cameras! I could use more, but this will cover the essential areas.

 

all cables, connectors, and power supplies. I think buying bulk cable and making our own in the neccesary lengths would be best. Surely it is more cost effective, right?

 

The 16 channel dvr, the 2 cameras in the bar, and the one camera in the front entry way are of most importance at this time. If neccesary I can make do with cheap cameras elsewhere and add better cameras as I can afford them in the other areas. BUT I still want to know what you all think I should eventually install in these areas. As for the dvr, I really want to get something that will record good quality images and perform with the cameras I want to eventually have in place. From what I have read here and elsewhere, you can buy all the high resolution cameras you want, but if you don't have a dvr to match up with them, you only get the high quality images when you are watching live view on the monitor. When we are there we can keep a fairly good eye on the place. It's when we are not there that I am concerned with. I want to be able to watch from home or cellphone or view later from recorded images what is happeneing when we are not there.

Oh yea- I would also like to have a system that will record only when motion is detected. Although, that looks pretty standard on the units I have looked at.

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated. I am ready to get something up and running soon. As it is my husband and I rarely see one another except for about 1 hour at work each day. Long enough to brief each other on what has been or will be happening. I open and he closes so there are only about 5 hours each day that one of us is not in the building. We need to spend a little time at home with our daughter. I think a cctv camera system would give him a little peace of mind about leaving the place in our employees hands for a few hours.

[Soundy 1]

Well, I won't get into the DVR, because frankly, the systems I deal with will eat all of your budget right off the top.

 

However, some other thoughts/advice...

 

The CNB VBM or VCM-24vf vandal domes will actually do nicely for almost all your positions. They're 600TVL, they're super-clear, and they have outstanding low-light capability. They are true day/night; they don't include IR, but they'll work with external illuminators. They ship with a 2.8-10.5mm lens, so they're adjustable to cover everything from about a 90-degree wide view, to fairly tight shots for detail on choke points, like the entrance.

 

The downside is, you'd probably eat up most of your initial budget just on the cameras - others here have found them on the 'net for around $160 for the VCM models (the VBMs are a bit cheaper, just aren't as flexible in mounting options), but at that rate, pray that you never need support for them; expect to pay maybe 40-50% more from a "reputable" dealer. However, they are extremely cost-effective *for the quality* - in other words, you'd pay a lot more for most other cameras that work as well. You can get cheaper cameras, but that will give cheaper results, and if you don't get usable pictures, then that money is effectively wasted anyway.

 

Regarding IR cameras: cameras that have built-in IR, usually have it as a cheap workaround for crappy low-light performance... until you start getting into the higher-end day/night cameras. IR is not great for identifying people, especially up close. It will be of limited usefulness identifying cars in the parking lots. And really, most of the places you'll looking to use it, if it's too dark for the CNBs to get a good picture, people will probably be tripping over their own feet at that point.

 

Rather than text-overlay for the paypoint terminals, look into a DVR that supports POS logging - ie. it captures the same information that would go to the TVS box, but instead logs it, time-synced to the video. This allows you to actually search transactions and filter them to aid searching.

 

Audio... forget it. Besides the potential legal issues (depending on where you live, it may be prohibited outright), you really will get little more than a mash of noise. Sit in the bar... close your eyes... listen to everything going on around you: that's what the mics are picking up. Try to listen to someone having a conversation two seats away: that's about how useful anything you record will be. In addition, very, very few "pro" cameras have it built-in (until you start getting into better H.264 IP cameras), so you'd be looking at adding and wiring separate microphones... and then you're still back to the "mash of noise" issue.

 

So yeah, you're probably looking at starting off with *good* cameras in the critical areas, and then adding more as budget allows.

 

I'll leave the DVR suggestions to the others, because frankly, the only cheap ones I have experience with, I have experience with BECAUSE they were cheap and the customer INSISTED on something cheap, and found afterward that they just weren't effective.

[tomboyt 0]

I appreciate your help. The CNB cameras look like they will work great. From reading the older posts here it appears that several of you use the CNB cameras pretty regularly. What do you all think of their dvrs? I see on their website that their 16 ch has POS overlay built in. I have done a few searches and I am not finding a dvr that logs POS info rather than overlaying it on the video. Can you point me to a make and model? I would like to read more about this.

 

Any suggestions on where to buy CNB products? I am only finding 2 places online. CNB's website allows you to add items to a shopping cart, but doesn't give any prices. I am assuming they only sell to dealers since this is the case. But where are all these dealers?

 

Another pub owner here told me he purchaseed his dvr from DVR USA. He seems happy with it, but he also doesn't seem to be very knowledgable about any of his dvr's capabilities. I think he only uses it to keep an eye on employees. Also it looks like there are 2 different companies by this name- one in OH and one in CA. Anyone purchased from either of these?

Edited August 15, 2010 by Guest

[tomcctv 187]

I appreciate your help. The CNB cameras look like they will work great. From reading the older posts here it appears that several of you use the CNB cameras pretty regularly. What do you all think of their dvrs? I see on their website that their 16 ch has POS overlay built in. I have done a few searches and I am not finding a dvr that logs POS info rather than overlaying it on the video. Can you point me to a make and model? I would like to read more about this.

 

Any suggestions on where to buy CNB products? I am only finding 2 places online. CNB's website allows you to add items to a shopping cart, but doesn't give any prices. I am assuming they only sell to dealers since this is the case. But where are all these dealers?

 

Another pub owner here told me he purchaseed his dvr from DVR USA. He seems happy with it, but he also doesn't seem to be very knowledgable about any of his dvr's capabilities. I think he only uses it to keep an eye on employees. Also it looks like their are 2 different companies by this name- one in OH and one in CA. Anyone purchased from either of these?

 

Hi tomboyt. nice to see you are putting in some good work in find the right system. but as mentioned your cost is a little low. but you have a good budget to start buying. you say you need 16 cameras. why not buy a good dvr and some cameras with your budget and keep adding as and when you can. start by protecting your loss areas first i.e tills/ stock/ kitchen area and car park.

 

have you thought of a ptz camera for your carpark area. 1 camera ptz will save you money on putting cameras everywere. 1 ptz with sensors.

also when looking for a dvr in a pub it is good to have pos on your dvr. this will let you see how much stock you have sold each day along with video.

 

but always look for brand name systems. take a look at the avermedia range of hybrids.(all have pos) and you cant go wrong with cnb cameras. were are you so we can see who is a good supplier in your area.

[Soundy 1]

Odd... usually manufacturer websites have a link that lists who their dealers are. You could always try contacting CNB to ask about a local reseller.

 

Don't bother with a PTZ - a *good* one will cost you anywhere from $1000-$3000, and won't give you as much full-time coverage, since it will only record what it's pointing at at any given moment.

 

I've never used a CNB DVR, so I can't comment on their quality. I *have* worked with an old DynaColor that was pretty solid and feature-rich (don't know about POS), and one or two Digital Watchdogs that were pretty good, too... but those were just brief flings, I'm really not that familiar with them.

 

Those are all higher in the price range, and like I say, most of the times I've dealt with (read: had foisted upon me) standalones, they were cheap cheap ones (GE, National Electronics, etc.) because the person didn't want to spend any money...

[tomcctv 187]

 

Don't bother with a PTZ - a *good* one will cost you anywhere from $1000-$3000, and won't give you as much full-time coverage, since it will only record what it's pointing at at any given moment

 

 

a ptz does not have to be on tour all the time. but it is the best camera type for a carpark. its just good to have the option of a moving camera when needed.

and the CNB ptz is no where near that price. and is a very good camera.

[Soundy 1]

 

Don't bother with a PTZ - a *good* one will cost you anywhere from $1000-$3000, and won't give you as much full-time coverage, since it will only record what it's pointing at at any given moment

 

 

a ptz does not have to be on tour all the time. but it is the best camera type for a carpark. its just good to have the option of a moving camera when needed.

Ah, but that's still only useful when someone is sitting watching the camera. I've done lots of pub and restaurant installs, and my experience, in their parking lots, that's not likely to ever happen - the staff have more important things to do, and none of them are going to pay someone just to sit there and monitor the cameras (they'd be more likely to pay a security guard to simply patrol the lot on foot).

 

The main thing parking lot cameras are used for is a general replay of any incidents - one car backing into another and driving off, perhaps a fight... you don't need exceptional detail to see what happened, and the make, model, and maybe color of involved vehicles, so one or two basic wide-angle cameras are generally sufficient. With the amount of area you need covered, facial recognition or license plates are going to be unattainable anyway unless you're using something with SUBSTANTIAL resolution, or a much greater number of cameras zoomed on smaller areas. The best way to get plates in such a situation is simply to have one camera zoomed in on an entrance/exit choke point.

 

No, you certainly don't want a PTZ for this purpose - it's really not worth the extra expense.

[rory 0]

in cases where its dark all the time, or dimly lit, you may just want to go BW only. We use BW cameras throughout the clubs here and they work great. KT&C has alot of them. They will always be better in low light then even a low light color camera or true day night camera, and lower the resolution the better, we use 420TVL more.

[tomboyt 0]

I appreciate your help. The CNB cameras look like they will work great. From reading the older posts here it appears that several of you use the CNB cameras pretty regularly. What do you all think of their dvrs? I see on their website that their 16 ch has POS overlay built in. I have done a few searches and I am not finding a dvr that logs POS info rather than overlaying it on the video. Can you point me to a make and model? I would like to read more about this.

 

Any suggestions on where to buy CNB products? I am only finding 2 places online. CNB's website allows you to add items to a shopping cart, but doesn't give any prices. I am assuming they only sell to dealers since this is the case. But where are all these dealers?

 

Another pub owner here told me he purchaseed his dvr from DVR USA. He seems happy with it, but he also doesn't seem to be very knowledgable about any of his dvr's capabilities. I think he only uses it to keep an eye on employees. Also it looks like their are 2 different companies by this name- one in OH and one in CA. Anyone purchased from either of these?

 

Hi tomboyt. nice to see you are putting in some good work in find the right system. but as mentioned your cost is a little low. but you have a good budget to start buying. you say you need 16 cameras. why not buy a good dvr and some cameras with your budget and keep adding as and when you can. start by protecting your loss areas first i.e tills/ stock/ kitchen area and car park.

 

have you thought of a ptz camera for your carpark area. 1 camera ptz will save you money on putting cameras everywere. 1 ptz with sensors.

also when looking for a dvr in a pub it is good to have pos on your dvr. this will let you see how much stock you have sold each day along with video.

 

but always look for brand name systems. take a look at the avermedia range of hybrids.(all have pos) and you cant go wrong with cnb cameras. were are you so we can see who is a good supplier in your area.

 

Hybrid? Humm- that means no H.264 right? I had read and read on this subject and thought that I had come to the conclusion that h.264 was the way to go. Now after searching through old posts on this forum I am wondering again. Besides the POS feature, what else would I gain by going with a hybrid? And if I am reading this right- most of these hybrids have half the video in jacks for analog cameras and half for IP cameras. Or at least it appeared that way with the ones I looked at. What are the advantages/disadvantages of IP cameras? Some comparison photos I saw looked like the analog did a better job in low light.

[tomboyt 0]

in cases where its dark all the time, or dimly lit, you may just want to go BW only. We use BW cameras throughout the clubs here and they work great. KT&C has alot of them. They will always be better in low light then even a low light color camera or true day night camera, and lower the resolution the better, we use 420TVL more.

 

Really? Ok, I have to go do some more reading. Maybe do some more searches on YouTube. Whew- this is hard work.

[tomboyt 0]

 

Don't bother with a PTZ - a *good* one will cost you anywhere from $1000-$3000, and won't give you as much full-time coverage, since it will only record what it's pointing at at any given moment

 

 

a ptz does not have to be on tour all the time. but it is the best camera type for a carpark. its just good to have the option of a moving camera when needed.

Ah, but that's still only useful when someone is sitting watching the camera. I've done lots of pub and restaurant installs, and my experience, in their parking lots, that's not likely to ever happen - the staff have more important things to do, and none of them are going to pay someone just to sit there and monitor the cameras (they'd be more likely to pay a security guard to simply patrol the lot on foot).

 

The main thing parking lot cameras are used for is a general replay of any incidents - one car backing into another and driving off, perhaps a fight... you don't need exceptional detail to see what happened, and the make, model, and maybe color of involved vehicles, so one or two basic wide-angle cameras are generally sufficient. With the amount of area you need covered, facial recognition or license plates are going to be unattainable anyway unless you're using something with SUBSTANTIAL resolution, or a much greater number of cameras zoomed on smaller areas. The best way to get plates in such a situation is simply to have one camera zoomed in on an entrance/exit choke point.

 

No, you certainly don't want a PTZ for this purpose - it's really not worth the extra expense.

 

My husband would think the PTZ was real fun........for about 3 days. Then I am afraid it would sit idol. We just don't have time to sit in the office. The threat of knowing it was there may be a good deterent for some employees that make trips to their car at night and come back in red eyed.

[tomboyt 0]

I know my budget is low for what you all deal with most of the time, but I am trying to do better than going to Sam's and buying everything in one box. I will be happy with getting the right DVR and at least 4 cameras to start off. There are even a few places where I could get away with some cheap cameras for a while, like the walk in cooler, pantry, hallway, and dishwashing area. This would allow me to keep an eye on things until I can afford to upgrade each of them. The walkin cooler- I mainly need to see that only certain people are pulling beer off the shelves. And the other areas I just need to see that everyone is working and not on the phone or texting- or drinking beer that they took a five finger discount on. My area of most importance is the bar with the 2 micros units and the front entry. 80% of our revenue comes from the bar. If drinks are not being rung in before they are made I lose big. I really wanted to have audio in this area for the sole purpose of hearing drinks being called out and then they forget to ring them in. This is a no-no but I am sure it happens when we are not watching.

 

We have gone almost a year without a security camera system so even if I have to do this in chapters I will be making progress. I can't afford the super high dollar stuff, but I am hoping to get the best for what I can afford.

 

Thanks for all your input so far. I look forward to more. Now I think I will go do some research on the B&W lower resolution cameras and then get some shut eye. If it isn't 100+ degrees tomorrow I am taking my daughter fishing. She just got her first fly rod and it hasn't seen the river yet.

 

Oh yeah- almost forgot. We are in central Arkansas. (someone asked earlier)

Edited August 15, 2010 by Guest

[rory 0]

in cases where its dark all the time, or dimly lit, you may just want to go BW only. We use BW cameras throughout the clubs here and they work great. KT&C has alot of them. They will always be better in low light then even a low light color camera or true day night camera, and lower the resolution the better, we use 420TVL more.

 

Really? Ok, I have to go do some more reading. Maybe do some more searches on YouTube. Whew- this is hard work.

 

Well it depends on the location, we use mostly BW Bullet cameras as they are cheap and generally mount them high enough away from hands. Also they are black housings and its dark so nobody sees them. Color vandal dome on the entrance, Color or day night cameras in the car parks ... started to add more light to one outside bar so using color there now .. but still mostly the cheap BW cameras suffice, even when trying some really low light color and day night cameras they just end up staying in BW anyway for us, or the color has noise as too low light. KT&C have the BW bullets and they also have the mini cubes .. in BW 420TVL (0.03 Lux) and 600TVL (0.3 lux) and exview models which are even lower lux. Now when i say cheap i dont mean the BW ones you get at Sams club or Kmart! Stick to a decent brand name.

 

Ofcourse if its going to be easy for someone to grab then a vandal dome would be best, hard to find a BW model though, could make your own or just try the true day night CNBs as soundy mentioned, as they are reasonably priced.

 

If its too dark then you would need IR. But thats a whole other ball game, unless its just a small room then thats easy to cover with almost any near decent Color IR camera. Problem with alot of Color IR cameras is the colors can be off .. also alot of cheap cameras like that have terrible light handling. CNB also have a couple true Day night IR Vandal Dome. Alot of times the IR can just cause a persons face to be a blob of light though.

 

Worst case scenerio is you put in the BW bullets then you get a better idea of what you want .. and go from there. As they are not that expensive its cheap to replace them, or sell them off to someone else as you swap out for a more expensive camera. Though even BW cameras need some light .. so if its too dark to see then you might want to look at IR cameras. Check out the turret IR vandal domes on the cheap side, they can do normally 30-40' of IR inside. There are tons of brands that sell them though and not all are good.

[rory 0]

a basic example of cheap Color IR Turret Domes, this was in a warehouse for example, notice the difference of IR from one narrow isle to a much wider isle with no objects within its IR range for it to really reflect off of. These were okay cameras for the price, low res and the color is fine indoors at least, but cant point them at a door entrance during the day or everything is dark, terrible backlighting, no idea how they would handle night club or bar lights.

 

http://www.eclipsecctv.com/ECL555E-turret-security-camera.html

[tomboyt 0]

in cases where its dark all the time, or dimly lit, you may just want to go BW only. We use BW cameras throughout the clubs here and they work great. KT&C has alot of them. They will always be better in low light then even a low light color camera or true day night camera, and lower the resolution the better, we use 420TVL more.

 

Really? Ok, I have to go do some more reading. Maybe do some more searches on YouTube. Whew- this is hard work.

 

Well it depends on the location, we use mostly BW Bullet cameras as they are cheap and generally mount them high enough away from hands. Also they are black housings and its dark so nobody sees them. Color vandal dome on the entrance, Color or day night cameras in the car parks ... started to add more light to one outside bar so using color there now .. but still mostly the cheap BW cameras suffice, even when trying some really low light color and day night cameras they just end up staying in BW anyway for us, or the color has noise as too low light. KT&C have the BW bullets and they also have the mini cubes .. in BW 420TVL (0.03 Lux) and 600TVL (0.3 lux) and exview models which are even lower lux. Now when i say cheap i dont mean the BW ones you get at Sams club or Kmart! Stick to a decent brand name.

 

Ofcourse if its going to be easy for someone to grab then a vandal dome would be best, hard to find a BW model though, could make your own or just try the true day night CNBs as soundy mentioned, as they are reasonably priced.

 

If its too dark then you would need IR. But thats a whole other ball game, unless its just a small room then thats easy to cover with almost any near decent Color IR camera. Problem with alot of Color IR cameras is the colors can be off .. also alot of cheap cameras like that have terrible light handling. CNB also have a couple true Day night IR Vandal Dome. Alot of times the IR can just cause a persons face to be a blob of light though.

 

Worst case scenerio is you put in the BW bullets then you get a better idea of what you want .. and go from there. As they are not that expensive its cheap to replace them, or sell them off to someone else as you swap out for a more expensive camera. Though even BW cameras need some light .. so if its too dark to see then you might want to look at IR cameras. Check out the turret IR vandal domes on the cheap side, they can do normally 30-40' of IR inside. There are tons of brands that sell them though and not all are good.

 

It's low light but not so dark you have trouble seeing (unless you are the ****tail waitress that is closing and is supposed to sweep the floor- they apparently have trouble seeing). We have 15 recessed can lights, 6 drop pendant fixtures, 4 huge lcd tv's that throw light around, recessed cans in the glass racks above the bar, and lights under and above the back bar shelves. Most of the lights are kept dimmed down. 5 years ago I could have read a newspaper in the darkest area of the bar, but now I have to get under the light and hold it out away to focus.

[tomboyt 0]

a basic example of cheap Color IR Turret Domes, this was in a warehouse for example, notice the difference of IR from one narrow isle to a much wider isle with no objects within its IR range for it to really reflect off of. These were okay cameras for the price, low res and the color is fine indoors at least, but cant point them at a door entrance during the day or everything is dark, terrible backlighting, no idea how they would handle night club or bar lights.

 

http://www.eclipsecctv.com/ECL555E-turret-security-camera.html

 

Backlighting. That is another issue I will have to deal with in the front entry(foyer). This area has a big 15 panel glass door to the outside. I need the camera pointing at this door. Next to the door is a glass panel wall that looks just like the door. Another wall to the right as you walk in is also all glass. During the day there will be a lot of light behind anyone coming through the door.

Moving the camera to the lobby won't change things because in order to get in the lobby from the foyer you have to pass through another huge 15 panel glass door with another matching glass wall. You also add the light from all the dining room widows in the lobby.

I saw a CNB camera comparison on YouTube that showed a camera that dealt with this situation fairly well. I think it was the DBM-24VF. This was late last night and I have this model number jotted down here on my notepad- so I think this is it.

[Soundy 1]

Hybrid? Humm- that means no H.264 right?

 

Not necessarily. All "hybrid" means is that it supports both analog and IP cameras. It has nothing to do with the codec(s) used, POS integration, or anything else.

 

I had read and read on this subject and thought that I had come to the conclusion that h.264 was the way to go. Now after searching through old posts on this forum I am wondering again.

As with anything else, there is no 100% perfect-for-all-cases solution. H.264 has its benefits, which may be useful in some situations. In other situations, other codecs' benefits may take precedence.

 

And if I am reading this right- most of these hybrids have half the video in jacks for analog cameras and half for IP cameras.

No. IP cameras connect via the network, so you only need a network switch; plug the DVR into that, then plug in as many cameras as the system supports.

 

What are the advantages/disadvantages of IP cameras? Some comparison photos I saw looked like the analog did a better job in low light.

Okay, there's one thing that you have to keep straight in this discussion: MP and IP are not the same thing.

 

Analog video has limitations on resolution (to well under half a megapixel) because of the video standards used (NTSC or PAL, depending on whether you're in North America, or just about anywhere else). To get around this limitation, megapixel cameras most commonly use a network connection, using TCP/IP protocol (the same as your internet connection). (To avoid further confusion, we won't get into HDcctv, which isn't available on the market yet, and probably won't be for some time yet).

 

There ARE standard-resolution cameras (VGA - 640x480 - most commonly) that use IP connections as well... and you can get "video server" boxes that will let you convert any standard analog signal to send over IP.

 

There are some definite advantages to using IP-networked cameras, most of which apply to larger, more complex systems. It's NOT generally as easy to set up as standard analog, though, which is why you don't see it a lot in lower-end systems.

 

Now, the comparison photos you're probably looking at are for megapixel cameras... they don't do as well in low light because they have to cram more pixels into the same size sensors as most analog cameras. Smaller pixels collect less light and thus *IN GENERAL* don't do as well in low-light conditions. Naturally, there are exceptions both ways...

 

And as with compression codecs, sometimes the benefits of one may outweigh its disadvantages, depending on your needs.

 

In any case, you can't really compare quality of "IP vs. analog" because there isn't an inherent reason for there to BE a difference. Case in point: Panasonic makes both analog and IP versions of its standard-resolution CW484 camera; there is no difference in quality and performance, just a difference in how you connect them.

[rory 0]

DBM-24VF is the indoor monalisa. The vandal dome is only a couple dollars more BTW.

I havent really used the monalisas but seeing videos online they seem to have better backlighting then most other non WDR cameras. CNB also have a line of WDR cameras, also I havent used, but their new ones are called the Blue-i. Other then that there is always the Panasonic, now those are expensive but pretty much guaranteed to work .. ive used the box camera version of the SD3 on a gas station door entrance and it is amazing even after several years of being installed. Also I dont know how any of these will work under low light, but they are true day night cameras.

[Soundy 1]

I saw a CNB camera comparison on YouTube that showed a camera that dealt with this situation fairly well. I think it was the DBM-24VF. This was late last night and I have this model number jotted down here on my notepad- so I think this is it.

That's essentially the same camera "guts" as the VCM/VBM-24vf (the Vxx models are the vandal-resistant domes; the DBM would be a standard plastic dome). Those do do quite well with harsh backlighting when you crank up their "SBLC" (super back-light compensation) setting. Take a look at my screenshots in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22141&hilit=sblc

 

Probably the BEST camera for this purpose is the Panasonic WV-CP484 (box) or WV-CW-484 (dome) camera... but that will probably run you 3-4 times the price of the CNB.

[Soundy 1]

My husband would think the PTZ was real fun........for about 3 days. Then I am afraid it would sit idol. We just don't have time to sit in the office. The threat of knowing it was there may be a good deterent for some employees that make trips to their car at night and come back in red eyed.

Well, nothing says you can't make the employees THINK it's there Just knowing there are cameras watching the parking lot would probably be enough!

 

Yeah, what we've found with PTZs, a lot of the time, is they're "neat toys" for the first while, but then they fall short when actually needed. There ARE places that they're useful, don't get me wrong: we have several in a crane yard that covers two square blocks, with another in a remote yard in another town, and the dispatchers can all pull them up on their desktop computers and steer them remotely - they use them to check on the location of some of their trucks, stock, storage items, and so on. Most are also set on regular tours just to keep a general eye on things and so they're not being completely useless when not being human-controlled. But again, their main use here IS being under human control.

 

We've also used them in the past at some gas stations, set on a tour to zoom in sequentially on each pump position in order to capture cars' plates... a car is typically stopped there long enough during a fill-up to be captured at least three times through the camera's tour. Since prepay-only laws came in here, though, capture plates at pumps has become almost a moot point - gas'n'dash events are almost eliminated.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Guest

[rory 0]

Also there is an entry level Monalisa Indoor dome, the DFL-20s.

Here is a thread where a member posted a screen shot with them pointing at an entrance.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21501

the DFL-20s is more then 1/2 the cost of the 24VF models, but its not true day night.

[rory 0]

And this is what a really crappy Color IR camera may end up looking like.

some no name camera .. no idea where it came from but its a color IR bullet.

[bjoynes 0]

I'm going to add on to this thread instead of starting another one.

 

Read a lot about the CNB VCM-24vf, which I have found for about $158. Two of these around my property will work well with other cameras installed, but I'm moving from a PC-DVR to a stand alone DVR system. Does anyone have suggestions on the best DVR to use with these CNB cameras to get the best from there resolution? I'm looking for a 8Ch with Lan connection, so I can connect to it from my computer on my LAN, I do not need WAN connectivity as I can provide that through my router.

 

Thanks

 

Bryn

[rory 0]

ive started using this standalone, its good image quality, remote video is not that fast but works, has alot of features and hasnt crashed yet. Have a few of them in the field now. Main limitation are you cant change the remote video codec or quality, but thats typical with most stand alone DVRs. They have 4, 8, and 16 channel units, and a couple versions of each. Ive been using the basic versions.

 

This is a US company that buys it OEM from South Korea.

http://www.vsionis.com/index.php/en/vision-8ex-16ex-h264-pentaplex-dvr.html

 

Also, looks like CNB uses one from the same manufacturer, although the specs are a little different and the front face looks different, the local software on the DVR looks identical:

http://www.cnbtec.com/en/html/product/product.php?inc=spe&seqx_prod=1180#p_v1

 

The actual manufacturer at least with the Vsionis one is Indigo, at least as far as the internals go.

I know this as the activeX control is from Indigo. Also the local and remote software is identical.

As far as CNB goes I cant say but the local DVR software is the same also, they may OEM the boards and make the cases themselves though, and customize the remote software. Havent used one yet. The 16 channel CNB model looks like it might be a couple hundred dollars cheaper actually.

http://www.indigo-security.com/

[bjoynes 0]

rory,

 

Thanks for the reply. I'm looking at CNB HDE2412 http://www.cnbtec.com/en/html/product/product.php?inc=spe&seqx_prod=1177#p_v1

 

8Ch, with 120FPS Max, so record at D1/15FPS on the two CNB VCM-24vf, and the rest at a lower FPS, maybe 5FPS I think will work. As I do not need constant record, most if not all cameras will work on motion detection.

 

Any ideas.

 

Thanks

 

Bryn