Need advise on system and components. Please HELP!

[rory 0]

cant really say as I havent used it ...

but looks like that 8-channel is only max 30fps in D1 while the Vsionis model is 60fps in D1.

The CNB HDE2424DV with a DVD drive is the one with the 60fps in D1, but thats some $300 more then the HDE2412 you listed. I guess that explains why the CNB 16 channel is a couple hundred less then the Vsionis.

 

Also I just used the CNB CMS Software and connected to a Vsionis DVR

It actually seems to work better then the one by Indigos/Visionis called Nemon.

 

BTW im having someone order one of their DVR cards, the price is much much much less then a Geovision GV-800 so going to give it a try. We dont ever need all the features of Geovision, and seems this software for the stand alone and CMS is decent so hopefully the PC software will be okay also, its all fully skinable as well and has a working activeX control as I already customized it before for the Vsionis .. anyway the card is so cheap its worth a try

[tomboyt 0]

Pardon my ignorance, but I was just looking at Avermedia's website and they are showing 2 different categories of hybrid dvrs.

Hybrid DVR/NVR

Embedded Hybrid DVR/NVR

 

what is the difference?

 

 

Didn't I read one thread on here where most of you didn't care much for Avermedia? I can't find it now, but I remember seeing the jeep picture (which I have seen on numerous threads) with recorded images from an avermedia dvr and some other dvr. Am I remembering right?

[rory 0]

No it was Avtech .. not avermedia. Ive used Avermedia and its okay but im not a fan of their software at this time, at least on the basic DVRs. It looks like they have some decent products in the higher end but not cheap and I remember not being able to find the same units on this side of the globe.

 

The diff between what you saw is probably one is a PC based which uses something like Windows XP Pro or even Windows 7, and the other could be a Stand Alone with an embedded OS such as Embedded linux or an Embedded RTOS, or maybe even Embedded Windows.

[ChrisP 0]

My only experience with avermedia was when I bought a NV5000 card and I wanted to install PTZ camera with it. It was having issues with the RS232 interface.

 

Their helpdesk had no idea how to resolve the issue.

 

As far as AVtech is concerned, their products are ok but there is always a peky little issue in their design or features.

[tomboyt 0]

I called CNB and spoke to their tech guy as well as the woman who runs the sales department in Dallas. Their standalone DVR with POS logging only logs info after the PRINT or SEND button has been pressed on the POS. So if my bartender rings up a drink and then voids this entry before the SEND or PRINT function the DVR will not log the info. It appears this is the case with all the standalone DVR's I have been looking at- even the Hybrid Avermedia that was suggested. If the PRINT or SEND function is used on the POS then our employees can not VOID anything without a card swipe from my husband or I, but I need to see if it is being dome before the order is printed.

 

It looks like I am going to have to go with a PC based DVR with real time POS text recording software/capture card in order to get the POS text function to work the way I want it to.

 

I am waiting for a demo and price quote for Seller's Point software made by Tundra. The other products that I have found are Remote Eyes and Open Eyes. Remote Eyes wants you to by the entire system from them and have a used car saleman type salesman that I couldn't get off the phone with. He kept trying to tell me that if I am losing $x each week then in x weeks the system would pay for itself. I couldn't seem to make him understand that I am aware of this, but I don't have $x to start off with. And apparently his cameras were the only good cameras out there. Haven't heard back yet from Open Eyes. Seller's Point- you can just buy the software.

 

Here I thought I had this all figured out on just what I wanted. Now I have to start all over.

 

So, I am just starting to read up on these PC based DVR systems. Are they going to be more complicated on the user end? Anything I should be looking for in making my selection? Anything I should try to stay away from? It looks like I will have to up my budget, but by the time I sift through all this information and make a decision I should have more money to spend.

[tomboyt 0]

On the diagram of how everything is hooked up while using the seller's point software, they are showing the POS server, each POS register, the internet, and the DVR all hooked to a network switch. What is this network switch? And is it usually called by a different name? If I do searches online I get mostly results pertaining to DishNetwork.

[tomcctv 187]

On the diagram of how everything is hooked up while using the seller's point software, they are showing the POS server, each POS register, the internet, and the DVR all hooked to a network switch. What is this network switch? And is it usually called by a different name? If I do searches online I get mostly results pertaining to DishNetwork.

i have used two of the cnb dvrs in the past and they are not that easy to use (the same s/w as the appollo)

 

what you are seeing in your diagram is what is called a pos box. this gives you many options of collecting your pos data to store. i would say that avermedia has the best pos system of any dvr.

[tomboyt 0]

have you seen the Avermedia record live view POS data? Anything that is rung in before pressing SEND or PRINT?

[Soundy 1]

On the diagram of how everything is hooked up while using the seller's point software, they are showing the POS server, each POS register, the internet, and the DVR all hooked to a network switch. What is this network switch? And is it usually called by a different name? If I do searches online I get mostly results pertaining to DishNetwork.

The switch is what all your network devices plug into so they can communicate. If you're using a broadband router for your internet, it no doubt has four or more ports marked "LAN" on it - those are essentially a network switch (with some added functions behind it). See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_switch

 

This diagram is basically assuming that you're using a network-based POS system, where the terminals all read off a central database on a back-office computer (which is likely the case these days).

[tomcctv 187]

have you seen the Avermedia record live view POS data? Anything that is rung in before pressing SEND or PRINT?

Hi yes i have seen the avers pos working. even collecting data from the scanner. and also ever push on the till will display on the avers. it also logs voids. it is best not going though the printer ports as it only then sends data when till opens. best from display pole.

[Soundy 1]

have you seen the Avermedia record live view POS data? Anything that is rung in before pressing SEND or PRINT?

Hi yes i have seen the avers pos working. even collecting data from the scanner. and also ever push on the till will display on the avers. it also logs voids. it is best not going though the printer ports as it only then sends data when till opens. best from display pole.

Agreed, I think this is more an issue of the POS setup or output used, rather than the DVR. A printer port will usually be designed not to send data until commanded to, usually once the transaction is complete. The ones I've set up, the TVS or DVR are set to recognize "Polewatcher" text, and the POS is set to use that function on the output port. This is normally intended for the pole-mounted displays that show the customer what's being rung through, AS it's being rung through. There's no reason ANY DVR shouldn't be able to log that data on-the-fly.

[tomboyt 0]

have you seen the Avermedia record live view POS data? Anything that is rung in before pressing SEND or PRINT?

Hi yes i have seen the avers pos working. even collecting data from the scanner. and also ever push on the till will display on the avers. it also logs voids. it is best not going though the printer ports as it only then sends data when till opens. best from display pole.

Agreed, I think this is more an issue of the POS setup or output used, rather than the DVR. A printer port will usually be designed not to send data until commanded to, usually once the transaction is complete. The ones I've set up, the TVS or DVR are set to recognize "Polewatcher" text, and the POS is set to use that function on the output port. This is normally intended for the pole-mounted displays that show the customer what's being rung through, AS it's being rung through. There's no reason ANY DVR shouldn't be able to log that data on-the-fly.

 

Does anyone know if I can search for terms such as CANCEL or VOID with the Avermedia? This way I don't have to watch the entire nights worth of video to see what people are up to.

 

I would much rather go with the stand alone DVR and the CNB cameras if I can have them do what I need.

[ChrisP 0]

Maybe you should call avermedia directly and ask them all the questions until you are satisfied

[Soundy 1]

If the DVR actually logs the POS data as text, it should be easily searchable. If it overlays it on the video, then... no.

[tomboyt 0]

ive started using this standalone, its good image quality, remote video is not that fast but works, has alot of features and hasnt crashed yet. Have a few of them in the field now. Main limitation are you cant change the remote video codec or quality, but thats typical with most stand alone DVRs. They have 4, 8, and 16 channel units, and a couple versions of each. Ive been using the basic versions.

 

This is a US company that buys it OEM from South Korea.

http://www.vsionis.com/index.php/en/vision-8ex-16ex-h264-pentaplex-dvr.html

 

Also, looks like CNB uses one from the same manufacturer, although the specs are a little different and the front face looks different, the local software on the DVR looks identical:

http://www.cnbtec.com/en/html/product/product.php?inc=spe&seqx_prod=1180#p_v1

 

The actual manufacturer at least with the Vsionis one is Indigo, at least as far as the internals go.

I know this as the activeX control is from Indigo. Also the local and remote software is identical.

As far as CNB goes I cant say but the local DVR software is the same also, they may OEM the boards and make the cases themselves though, and customize the remote software. Havent used one yet. The 16 channel CNB model looks like it might be a couple hundred dollars cheaper actually.

http://www.indigo-security.com/

 

The vsionis 16ex and 16pro both show they have text-in search capability. Their website only shows one wholesale company in the U.S. I will try to contact them and Avermedia tomorrow.

[tomboyt 0]

Avermedia says my Micros 3700 POS system must be ASCII based to work with their dvrs. My husband says the MICROS are not, and I am awaiting confirmation from our MICROS dealer. However, they did say that a MICROS 3700 protocol could be written but it would take 2 months.

 

Vision/iVsionis (their U.S. wholesaler) needed to do more research before they could answer my questions. They also refered me to one of their dealers who hasn't gotten back to me.

 

OpenEyes promised a call Monday- it's Thursday and still haven't heard back from them.

 

Seller's Point software will work if I buy the dvr from saysecurity or someone else who carries kodicom dvrs. Apparently they(saysecurity) are swamped with sales right now because I have to call multiple times to catch the sales guy. He won't return calls or emails unless you constantly badger him. Nice guy, but he must be really busy. I didn't realize that Tundra software and saysecurity were connected until I got aggrevated and called the number from Seller's Point software's website and asked if they had any other dealers for their software. I was told yes, and then my sales guy who was "out to lunch" was suddenly available. If this guy tells you to be "expecting something very shortly" from him, it means six plus hours and then you still have to call him 1 or 2 more times. But once you catch him he can answer your questions in a few short minutes. This software will do everything I want it to do as far as, real time transaction recording, searching by data, and searching by time.

 

Geovision has a POS Text Sender Dongle that specifically says it is for MICROS- but it doesn't say MICROS 3700. But I need to know what type of DVR this product is used with. I waited on hold on this call until my battery went dead.

 

Doing more searches today I found another product that looks promising. The AVE VSI Pro. From what I am reading it does everything I need as well. I just need to learn more about it and if there is any specific dvr's that I have to use with it.

 

I am finding dvr after dvr that says it supports POS text in, but no one can tell me if it will work with MICROS 3700. This particular MICROS system seems to be a headache to integrate to a dvr.

 

This was a whole lot easier before I learned there was this POS integration capability. Now I want this, but I want to do it in the simplest most cost effective way. I am not trying to be a cheapskate. I just want to know what all my options are. I do this with just about everything I buy. And I usually end up going with something on the upper end of the middle price. I want a product to perform in a way that suits my needs, but I don't think you always have to take the most expensive route. It took me 2 months to decide on a kayak. The total cost of this dvr project will decide if I get to buy that kayak (and it's a hybrid- everything is hybrid now) before fall gets here.

[tomboyt 0]

On the diagram of how everything is hooked up while using the seller's point software, they are showing the POS server, each POS register, the internet, and the DVR all hooked to a network switch. What is this network switch? And is it usually called by a different name? If I do searches online I get mostly results pertaining to DishNetwork.

i have used two of the cnb dvrs in the past and they are not that easy to use (the same s/w as the appollo)

 

what you are seeing in your diagram is what is called a pos box. this gives you many options of collecting your pos data to store. i would say that avermedia has the best pos system of any dvr.

 

Tom-

Avermedia says that if my MICROS 3700 system is not ASCII based then it will not work. I was all set to buy the Avermedia DVR and the CNB cameras. But it seems I purchased the wrong POS system to make this an easy project.

I called 2 different installers to give me prices on doing this but they were scratching their heads as though no one had ever asked them to put these two (dvr & pos) systems together. With these guys it didn't seem to be a problem with just my POS. They had just never put a POS and DVR together.

[Soundy 1]

Vigil supports Micros 3700 directly.

[tomboyt 0]

Vigil supports Micros 3700 directly.

I'm guessing this is Vigil by 3xlogic? I can't find any prices anywhere online which usually means it is super expensive.

[Soundy 1]

Well, not SUPER expensive... I can get you pricing, if you let me know which model you're interested in.

[rory 0]

The vsionis 16ex and 16pro both show they have text-in search capability. Their website only shows one wholesale company in the U.S. I will try to contact them and Avermedia tomorrow.

 

CNB should have the same feature, not sure how or if it works and dont see it on their remote playback, used the software from both and I did notice the Vsionis one has that option on remote playback.

 

BTW here is the CNB remote CMS playback:

 

Here is the Text search for the Vsionis (I think), its called Text In Search:

[rory 0]

It's low light but not so dark you have trouble seeing (unless you are the ****tail waitress that is closing and is supposed to sweep the floor- they apparently have trouble seeing). We have 15 recessed can lights, 6 drop pendant fixtures, 4 huge lcd tv's that throw light around, recessed cans in the glass racks above the bar, and lights under and above the back bar shelves. Most of the lights are kept dimmed down. 5 years ago I could have read a newspaper in the darkest area of the bar, but now I have to get under the light and hold it out away to focus.

 

BTW was just testing an old exview bw bullet with an EX26 IR illuminator someone gave me .. thought i would post the results.

excuse low quality, due to network capture from Avtech DVR.

[tomboyt 0]

I think I learned something new yesterday, but I want to run it by you guys and see if I can get verification.

Was speaking to a man at 3xlogic and if I undertood right he told me this:

I start off with a hybrid dvr and 16 analog channels. Later on if I decide to add 4 IP cameras, I buy this network switch to plug those IP cameras into, plug it in to the dvr, I then have a 20 camera unit- by keeping the 16 analogs. Is this correct? If so, does it affect your fps rate the same as the analog cameras? Do I now divide 20 into my dvr's maximum frame rate?

[Soundy 1]

I think I learned something new yesterday, but I want to run it by you guys and see if I can get verification.

Was speaking to a man at 3xlogic and if I undertood right he told me this:

I start off with a hybrid dvr and 16 analog channels. Later on if I decide to add 4 IP cameras, I buy this network switch to plug those IP cameras into, plug it in to the dvr, I then have a 20 camera unit- by keeping the 16 analogs. Is this correct?

That is correct.

 

If so, does it affect your fps rate the same as the analog cameras? Do I now divide 20 into my dvr's maximum frame rate?

Nope. The maximum analog framerate is strictly a function of the capture card and has no connection to the IP cameras' framerate. The only limitation then becomes the bus speed of the computer.

[HTElectrical 0]

cant really say as I havent used it ...

but looks like that 8-channel is only max 30fps in D1 while the Vsionis model is 60fps in D1.

The CNB HDE2424DV with a DVD drive is the one with the 60fps in D1, but thats some $300 more then the HDE2412 you listed. I guess that explains why the CNB 16 channel is a couple hundred less then the Vsionis.

 

Also I just used the CNB CMS Software and connected to a Vsionis DVR

It actually seems to work better then the one by Indigos/Visionis called Nemon.

 

BTW im having someone order one of their DVR cards, the price is much much much less then a Geovision GV-800 so going to give it a try. We dont ever need all the features of Geovision, and seems this software for the stand alone and CMS is decent so hopefully the PC software will be okay also, its all fully skinable as well and has a working activeX control as I already customized it before for the Vsionis .. anyway the card is so cheap its worth a try

 

Just wondering if you had any info on the card?