Help needed on a Samsung IP Cameras system.

[wah888 0]

I'm reaching out to the wider IP cameras and CCTV community to get advice and suggestions as to a system which I have put together and testing right now.

 

I am using 8 x Samsung IP cameras, so a mixture or box, dome and PTZ from the model range 2009 and these are connected to the Samsung 32 channel NVR over a 100base LAN. The cameras are a mixture of 1 and 2 megapixels and I've set up the capture to be at 25fps so there's a lot of data movement across the network. The cameras are installed in a warehouse type environment so about 50m x 30m dimensions. The reason for the high fps is that I will be viewing and recording some fast moving action and want to be able to take the recording and use that in some post editing processes eg to be used in movie maker or Apple based professional film editing software. To simplify, I would say the set up I have resembles a movie studio and I'm trying to create a feature film using IP camera technology. And here is where I am having several problems:

 

1. Samsung use a proprietary file format of .STX and their own translating software to .avi is not reliable over the network or for long pieces of footage.

 

2. I need a reliable method to extract the filmed footage out from the NVR in a more universal format so that I can feed that into third party software; hence .avi, mpeg4 or similar.

 

3. Samsung have just released their iNet server solution which is installed on a server (hence makes their NVR's redundant ) but still the video output is proprietary to them ; iREC and SEC. Anyone know how to get this translated to a more usable format?

 

4. Is there another IP camera software that will hook upto the Samsung cameras. I've tried iSOFT but this does not seem to connect? Is there anything else I should really consider? The reason why I'm trying to stick with Samsung is that I'm getting great prices with their hardware and the quality is pretty good. Although someone else here might tell me otherwise and that brand XXX will give me the same quality with similar prices and their software export function is really good.

 

5. I've looked at the Arecont range as well and seem to find that their video capture and playback does not seem fluent enough.

 

6. Does anyone have experience of building networks here where there is sustained date movement of upto 8 2meg IP cameras recording at 25fps? What pointers or advice could you give to get the best out of the system and to make the best use of the available kit out in the marketplace?

 

Look forward to any feedback received, thanks.

[danielsan2222 0]

Exacq and Milestone are two of the biggest/most popular software providers. Milestone I know has support for a number of Samsung cameras. Exacq doesnt list Samsung but perhaps they are support through a universal driver. Someone who uses Exacq could probably tell you or contact them directly.

 

With Arecont, were you looking at Arecont's software? I hear it is not that good which is par for the course with sofitware from IP camera manufacturers. Usually you are best off with 3rd party software.

 

I am curious as to what model of Samsung cameras you are using. I was not aware of a 2MP model much less one that can do 25ips at full resolution.

 

If low light is not an issue and you want to consider an alternative brand you can check out Sanyo. Arecont can also do high frame rates at 2MP. Above 2-3MP I dont think any brand is going to give you 25IPS. Axis tends to be pricey as is Mobotix. ACTI only offers 1.3MP models with 4MP models just announced but who knows when those will be available and supported.

 

I'm reaching out to the wider IP cameras and CCTV community to get advice and suggestions as to a system which I have put together and testing right now.

 

I am using 8 x Samsung IP cameras, so a mixture or box, dome and PTZ from the model range 2009 and these are connected to the Samsung 32 channel NVR over a 100base LAN. The cameras are a mixture of 1 and 2 megapixels and I've set up the capture to be at 25fps so there's a lot of data movement across the network. The cameras are installed in a warehouse type environment so about 50m x 30m dimensions. The reason for the high fps is that I will be viewing and recording some fast moving action and want to be able to take the recording and use that in some post editing processes eg to be used in movie maker or Apple based professional film editing software. To simplify, I would say the set up I have resembles a movie studio and I'm trying to create a feature film using IP camera technology. And here is where I am having several problems:

 

1. Samsung use a proprietary file format of .STX and their own translating software to .avi is not reliable over the network or for long pieces of footage.

 

2. I need a reliable method to extract the filmed footage out from the NVR in a more universal format so that I can feed that into third party software; hence .avi, mpeg4 or similar.

 

3. Samsung have just released their iNet server solution which is installed on a server (hence makes their NVR's redundant ) but still the video output is proprietary to them ; iREC and SEC. Anyone know how to get this translated to a more usable format?

 

4. Is there another IP camera software that will hook upto the Samsung cameras. I've tried iSOFT but this does not seem to connect? Is there anything else I should really consider? The reason why I'm trying to stick with Samsung is that I'm getting great prices with their hardware and the quality is pretty good. Although someone else here might tell me otherwise and that brand XXX will give me the same quality with similar prices and their software export function is really good.

 

5. I've looked at the Arecont range as well and seem to find that their video capture and playback does not seem fluent enough.

 

6. Does anyone have experience of building networks here where there is sustained date movement of upto 8 2meg IP cameras recording at 25fps? What pointers or advice could you give to get the best out of the system and to make the best use of the available kit out in the marketplace?

 

Look forward to any feedback received, thanks.

[thewireguys 3]

Exacq will support Samsung with ONVIF but ONVIF is not as plug in play as people where hoping it is. At least that is the feedback I am getting from VMS companys.

[wah888 0]

Samsung model SNB-6000 is 2meg pixel at 30 fps. I havent got hold of one yet but will do soon. Cameras I am using currently include :

SNP-3350P IP speed dome cam

SND-460VP IP fixed dome

SNC-1300 box cams

 

which are all 1mb pixels.

 

You are right about the supplied software from Arecont; we are using that one.

 

I've looked at the milestone software but just considered it way too complicated for what I need. I just need to be able to do some viewing and recording and then be able to extract the footage from there. I've heard about Nouuo or Nuovo software. Does anyone have any experience of this?

 

Some of the footage I'm shooting will be in low light as well as indoor flourescent strip lighting so a mixture really.

 

Another option given to me was to have some IT guys develop some dedicated software to fit my needs; i guess it will involve getting to the SDK of Samsung etc.. Has anyone done this sort of thing before?

 

And lastly would you say the Sanyo cams are pretty reliable and good quality to use?

 

Thanks.

[wah888 0]

Exacq will support Samsung with ONVIF but ONVIF is not as plug in play as people where hoping it is. At least that is the feedback I am getting from VMS companys.

 

Sorry wireguys, could you explain what you mean by ONVIF and if its plug and play? cheers.

[thewireguys 3]

Exacq will support Samsung with ONVIF but ONVIF is not as plug in play as people where hoping it is. At least that is the feedback I am getting from VMS companys.

 

Sorry wireguys, could you explain what you mean by ONVIF and if its plug and play? cheers.

 

http://www.onvif.org/

[cglaeser 0]

I would like to purchase and install one of the new Samsung GVI cameras. I currently use Exacq to monitor cameras. Exacq does not yet officially support Samsung ONVIF cameras, and although Exacq plans to release support for ONVIF in another month or so, it is not clear that they will support Samsung ONVIF cameras. Therefore, I may switch to GVI autoIP.

 

Does anyone know the single camera licensing fee for GVI autoIP?

 

Best,

Christopher

[ak357 0]

I would like to purchase and install one of the new Samsung GVI cameras. I currently use Exacq to monitor cameras. Exacq does not yet officially support Samsung ONVIF cameras, and although Exacq plans to release support for ONVIF in another month or so, it is not clear that they will support Samsung ONVIF cameras. Therefore, I may switch to GVI autoIP.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

Any ONVIF compliant camera "theoretically " should work with any ONVIF compliant software

But as usual with CCTV industry it is not going to happen

[cglaeser 0]

Any ONVIF compliant camera "theoretically " should work with any ONVIF compliant software

But as usual with CCTV industry it is not going to happen

 

Understood, but my Exacq rep tells me that Exacq ONVIF is currently not compatible with Samsung ONVIF and that may still be the case when Exacq 4.4 is released. So, even if I wait 6 to 8 weeks for 4.4, it still may not support the Samsung ONVIF cameras. So, I need a back up plan. I think Samsung supports all my existing cameras (Axis and Panasonic), so perhaps I should drop Exacq and switch to autoIP. Anyone know the pricing? I'll contact GVI tomorrow and report back if no one knows.

 

Best,

Christopher

[Soundy 1]

Proper tool for the job: if you're recording video for the purpose of editing later, I would strongly advise using cameras intended for this, rather than those meant for surveillance. You really want a system that will record SMPTE timecode on the video, so you can properly synchronize later (and audio, if you plan to add that later). Ideally you'd use a setup that records all feeds with synchronized timecode, but most editing software that supports timecode should also allow you to easy enter an offset for each stream when it's imported. Yes, you can still edit non-timecoded video together, but having the timecode makes life a whole lot easier, especially since the software is designed to make use of it for exactly that pupose.

 

Your best bet will probably be a hard-disk-based camcorder (there are HD models out there), so you can record what you need internally to the camera, then import that to your editing station... usually by plugging the camera into the computer via firewire, but there are probably networkable cameras out there that will let you selectively download the video as the need arises (so you could only download, say, an hour clip of the timeframe you need), rather than keeping all the video, all the time.

 

These types of camera will probably handle the low and varying lighting conditions a lot better, too.

[ak357 0]

 

Understood, but my Exacq rep tells me that Exacq ONVIF is currently not compatible with Samsung ONVIF and that may still be the case when Exacq 4.4 is released. So, even if I wait 6 to 8 weeks for 4.4, it still may not support the Samsung ONVIF cameras. So, I need a back up plan. I think Samsung supports all my existing cameras (Axis and Panasonic), so perhaps I should drop Exacq and switch to autoIP. Anyone know the pricing? I'll contact GVI tomorrow and report back if no one knows.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

Well that bring another point

That Samsung Did Not implement fully and properly ONVIF

I have seen this already few times with other manufactures

I would stay out for now and wait

[danielsan2222 0]

My impression from the initial post was the point of this project was to use IP cameras to create this film. Perhaps the OP can clarify.

[thewireguys 3]

 

Understood, but my Exacq rep tells me that Exacq ONVIF is currently not compatible with Samsung ONVIF and that may still be the case when Exacq 4.4 is released. So, even if I wait 6 to 8 weeks for 4.4, it still may not support the Samsung ONVIF cameras. So, I need a back up plan. I think Samsung supports all my existing cameras (Axis and Panasonic), so perhaps I should drop Exacq and switch to autoIP. Anyone know the pricing? I'll contact GVI tomorrow and report back if no one knows.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

Well that bring another point

That Samsung Did Not implement fully and properly ONVIF

I have seen this already few times with other manufactures

I would stay out for now and wait

 

Bingo

[cglaeser 0]

I would stay out for now and wait

 

I hear ya'. The problem is that ONVIF notwithstanding, the specifications look great. Are there any other 1.3MP 1/3" Exview progressive scan CCD IP POE minidomes that are half the price of the Panasonic 502?

 

Best,

Christopher

[wah888 0]

I would like to purchase and install one of the new Samsung GVI cameras. I currently use Exacq to monitor cameras. Exacq does not yet officially support Samsung ONVIF cameras, and although Exacq plans to release support for ONVIF in another month or so, it is not clear that they will support Samsung ONVIF cameras. Therefore, I may switch to GVI autoIP.

 

Does anyone know the single camera licensing fee for GVI autoIP?

 

Best,

Christopher

 

This thread relates to my initial question and discussion of using Samsung IP cameras in an editing environment. Could you "cglaeser" start your own discussion thread elsewhere please.

[wah888 0]

My impression from the initial post was the point of this project was to use IP cameras to create this film. Perhaps the OP can clarify.

 

 

Yes; you are right, I've told "cglaeser" to start his own thread.

[wah888 0]

Exacq will support Samsung with ONVIF but ONVIF is not as plug in play as people where hoping it is. At least that is the feedback I am getting from VMS companys.

 

Sorry wireguys, could you explain what you mean by ONVIF and if its plug and play? cheers.

 

http://www.onvif.org/

 

 

thanks for the information. I've had a look but have been informed that although onvif is supposed to be the standard, there are various flavours of it. samsung is not on their supported IP cams list.

[wah888 0]

Proper tool for the job: if you're recording video for the purpose of editing later, I would strongly advise using cameras intended for this, rather than those meant for surveillance. You really want a system that will record SMPTE timecode on the video, so you can properly synchronize later (and audio, if you plan to add that later). Ideally you'd use a setup that records all feeds with synchronized timecode, but most editing software that supports timecode should also allow you to easy enter an offset for each stream when it's imported. Yes, you can still edit non-timecoded video together, but having the timecode makes life a whole lot easier, especially since the software is designed to make use of it for exactly that pupose.

 

Your best bet will probably be a hard-disk-based camcorder (there are HD models out there), so you can record what you need internally to the camera, then import that to your editing station... usually by plugging the camera into the computer via firewire, but there are probably networkable cameras out there that will let you selectively download the video as the need arises (so you could only download, say, an hour clip of the timeframe you need), rather than keeping all the video, all the time.

 

These types of camera will probably handle the low and varying lighting conditions a lot better, too.

 

 

I agree that the timecode should be synchronized and recording across all video feeds which makes editing simpler but as far as I understood, this was a base configuation of CCTV hardware; that the timing and synchronizing across all cams was in tune; or correct me. Is the SMPTE timecode a standard for filming industry or just for the CCTV world?

 

You mentioned using editing software to make a timecode offset; why is this needed?

 

Do you have any info about the networkable cameras around which could record to a central server as this makes sense to me. CCTV cams are also robust and designed for long term usage which is another requirement; hence the reasoning with trying to get CCCTV cams to work for this project.

 

Having done some testing, the samsungs seem to produce an acceptable picture quality and able to cope with lighting conditions etc..

[thewireguys 3]

 

 

thanks for the information. I've had a look but have been informed that although onvif is supposed to be the standard, there are various flavours of it. samsung is not on their supported IP cams list.

 

Well that is not really true. There is one standard and Exacq is fully compliant they problem is the camera manufactures not implementing the full standard I am assuming that is to get the cameras to market faster. This does not surprise me in any way, I have been in this business for over 10 years.

[buellwinkle 0]

I think what he's trying to do is get the video sent as AVI or MPG files that he can directly import into his video editing software. Most cameras and NVR software seems to store this in their own format and then provide utlities to convert the data but he doesn't want to go through this tedious step, he wants the camera or NVR software to record directly in a format suitable for him.

 

So does Milestone or any other NVR software has the option to record to AVI files instead of their own format?

[cglaeser 0]

So does Milestone or any other NVR software has the option to record to AVI files instead of their own format?

 

Why not just use digicams that support video? They are dirt cheap compared to security cameras and take video that is far superior. In addition, NLEs like Premier and Final Cut will import the video without any problem.

 

Best,

Christopher

[danielsan2222 0]

That was the point of my previous post. He confirmed he is trying to use IP cameras to do this. Obviously there are better tools if he is simply trying to create a film but he is, for his own reasons, trying to do this with IP surveillance cameras.

 

So does Milestone or any other NVR software has the option to record to AVI files instead of their own format?

 

Why not just use digicams that support video? They are dirt cheap compared to security cameras and take video that is far superior. In addition, NLEs like Premier and Final Cut will import the video without any problem.

 

Best,

Christopher

[cglaeser 0]

That was the point of my previous post. He confirmed he is trying to use IP cameras to do this. Obviously there are better tools if he is simply trying to create a film but he is, for his own reasons, trying to do this with IP surveillance cameras.

 

Yes, not only are there better tools, but a six pack of digicams is likely cheaper than some of the VMS applications that are being proposed.

 

Best,

Christopher

[danielsan2222 0]

Absolutely no argument from me on that score. My first thought after i read the initial post was how I could do this with something other than surveillance cameras. I was just thinking there is no point in us posting a bunch of solutions that don't fit the requirements of the project.

 

That was the point of my previous post. He confirmed he is trying to use IP cameras to do this. Obviously there are better tools if he is simply trying to create a film but he is, for his own reasons, trying to do this with IP surveillance cameras.

 

Yes, not only are there better tools, but a six pack of digicams is likely cheaper than some of the VMS applications that are being proposed.

 

Best,

Christopher

[wah888 0]

I think what he's trying to do is get the video sent as AVI or MPG files that he can directly import into his video editing software. Most cameras and NVR software seems to store this in their own format and then provide utlities to convert the data but he doesn't want to go through this tedious step, he wants the camera or NVR software to record directly in a format suitable for him.

 

So does Milestone or any other NVR software has the option to record to AVI files instead of their own format?

 

 

Right. I dont necessarily need the Cams to record in .avi or mpeg but i need a method to simply be able to encode into a more universal standard so i can take into a post production editing software.