Best DVR for security cameras. Q-see or Clover

[Toaster 0]

I'm looking at a 4ch CCD security camera/dvr setup for my house. I recently bought one for my small business, which was a clover... Seems to work ok, didn't like that I couldn't record D1 (highest res 708x480) at 30FPS - instead I only get 8FPS at that res, or half d1 (708x240) at 15fps. I didnt want to use CIF 320x240 res at 30fps - seems too small.

 

The Clover isn't very graphic, or pretty - but seems to work - but I have nothing to compare it to.

 

SO: now I'm going to buy one for my house - there is a comparable Q-see model (about the same price) with 4 CCD day/night camera, about 40ft night vision, 24 IR LEDS, 500gb h264 dvr...... But the recording options are pre-set it seems like... one option is 1 ch D1 30fps, 2-4 ch 30fps at CIF only. The clover, I can configure any channel any resolution, but limited to 8FPS D1, 15FPS H/D1, 30FPS CIF.

 

I can't return these, so I'm stuck when I buy.... Who is better? Q-see or Clover? or is there any other budget security cameras out there? I'm trying to spend $400 USD MAX.

[Soundy 1]

Setting aside for a moment the fact that both are cheap junk...

 

You don't NEED 30fps for surveillance purposes. You're not producing a TV show here, you're just recording security video. 8fps is more than sufficient for most purposes, particularly retail. Give the limitations of the Q-see, of the two, I'd say you're better off with the Clover, running D1 at 8fps on all channels.

[SEANHAWG 1]

trying to get a 30 fps "per channel" dvr @ d1 will cost you 3 or 4 times as much (or more) as those that you are looking at. The cost benefit analysis doesnt work out in that scenario.

[Toaster 0]

If both are junk (and I don't know, that's why I asked) what would you recommend ?

 

I have not read enough reviews of either, and the varying lines in each brand make it hard to make a educated buying decision.

 

And I know I'm going to regret asking, but what makes them junk???

[Soundy 1]

What makes anything junk? Cheap design, cheap parts, cheap construction, poor performance, poor quality, lack of features, poor (or no) after-sale support...

 

Consider that you're talking about package systems where you're expecting to get the DVR *and* four cameras for $400... then compare to "professional grade" cameras that EASILY go for $400 and up, for just ONE camera, and you get an idea of the variations in quality. In an industry where you really do get what you pay for, this price range qualifies as junk.

 

First thing I think most here would recommend is revising either your budget, or your expectations. You'd probably be looking at *starting* at $600-$800 for a *decent* standalone DVR like a Digital Watchdog or something... cameras not included.

[SEANHAWG 1]

I have never used either one so I cant attest to how good or bad they are but 8 fps for D1 is not bad.

[Guest]

Setting aside for a moment the fact that both are cheap junk...

 

You don't NEED 30fps for surveillance purposes. You're not producing a TV show here, you're just recording security video. 8fps is more than sufficient for most purposes, particularly retail. Give the limitations of the Q-see, of the two, I'd say you're better off with the Clover, running D1 at 8fps on all channels.

 

For retail I would never recomend anything less then 30 FPS!

 

 

JD

[Toaster 0]

I'm sure this is subjective, like everything in life... I'd like to have the top of the line, cream of the crop -but I can't afford it. These systems are around $340 after tax and everything... That includes 4 cameras, dvr w/HDD and cables. Hard to beat that. Remote view from PC or smartphone. Fairly simple to setup... Just not what I was expecting, but I'm learning fast.

 

I want another system for my house now, that's what sparked this thread. Before I re-bought the same one, I wanted to know if the Q-see might be better. Now, I realize they are both "low quality", so at this point its going to be personal preference I guess... My guess is most users here don't use this type equipment, so I'm not going to get the opinions I wanted and was hoping for.

 

I'm still looking forward to anyone contributing to this thread, or maybe pointing me towards a more consumer based forum where its users may have used either the Q-see or Clover (or other comparably priced security camera systems) - Maybe I might learn something else... THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!!!

[Soundy 1]

Setting aside for a moment the fact that both are cheap junk...

 

You don't NEED 30fps for surveillance purposes. You're not producing a TV show here, you're just recording security video. 8fps is more than sufficient for most purposes, particularly retail. Give the limitations of the Q-see, of the two, I'd say you're better off with the Clover, running D1 at 8fps on all channels.

 

For retail I would never recomend anything less then 30 FPS!

 

 

JD

 

You mean there are jobs where you would suggest MORE?

[Guest]

Setting aside for a moment the fact that both are cheap junk...

 

You don't NEED 30fps for surveillance purposes. You're not producing a TV show here, you're just recording security video. 8fps is more than sufficient for most purposes, particularly retail. Give the limitations of the Q-see, of the two, I'd say you're better off with the Clover, running D1 at 8fps on all channels.

 

For retail I would never recomend anything less then 30 FPS!

 

 

JD

 

You mean there are jobs where you would suggest MORE?

 

 

Well more..... I am not sure, but I think that for instance cameras near entrances and exits where people are walking would not have a bad influence with 50FPS cameras.

 

What I meant that after working in the retail industry for 15 years, with timelapse, first generation DVR with wavelet 1 FPS, then Mpeg1 25FPS after Mpeg4 12 FPS and then H264 25FPS (PAL would be 30 FPS in NTSC) I must say that anything below 15 FPS can be a error source. I have seen customers been taken away because people monitoring have seen them take something and put in their pockets and also when playing back say the same thing, only when the truth is that they took their hand up and looked closer on a product and then put their hand back in their pocket without taking anything. This have happened many times and also offcourse since you are not sure you let somebody that have stolen something go free. This because off many factors, bad cameras, bad placement of cameras, bad view from the camera, bad DVR, bad resolution, bad frame rate. I also mean when more or less all analog cameras deliver 25 FPS why the hell do we not record them? It is like buing a big steak and eat half, it is waste, also I am confused that so many "high end" companies like Bosch, Panasonic and others that have really good cameras always want to sell a ****ty DVR together with the good cameras it is crazy!

 

I think that 25/30FPS in a few years will be the recording standard for analog, and then we will se a more divided market for IP/MP where the non realtime system will either be a ****ty NVR or a NVR with large Megapixel cameras, then the standard will be 25FPS and then there will be special aplication cameras like 50FPS or maybe more for special things like doors in shopping malls, banks etc. I may be wrong. But I must say that when an Iphone 4 to 199USD can take better video then a security camera for 299USD then there is something wrong.

 

 

JD

[Soundy 1]

Umm... given 30fps is NTSC specification... you're not going to find a camera OR DVR that will do higher. PAL is only 25fps, and film is 24fps (until you start getting into things like IMAX and specialized high-speed cameras).

 

Seriously, are you trying to sell customers this "50fps" snake oil??

 

(BTW, I'd like to know where you're finding an iPhone 4 for $199... in Canada, it's going to cost you $600-$800 unless you want to lock into a contract. You tell me where to get them for $199 and I can make way more money re-selling them for twice that than I could ever get in CCTV).

[SEANHAWG 1]

@ Toaster

We have had a couple of Clover DVR's come through our warehouse. 1 was horrendous and the other one was actually pretty nice. The Clover that was horrendous was one that came in a package deal with cameras, it was a 2005 package so perhaps they have some better ones now. If I were to pick, I would stay with the clover system since it has the ability to record at D1 on all channels. Even though it does it at 8 FPS, thats not that bad really and should work fine for your scenario. One thing I have noticed with these package deals is the cameras that come in them are not that great, but the DVR's are decent. The cameras seem to have very weak optics for the most part. You could always upgrade your cameras in the future if you wanted to.

[Toaster 0]

@SEANHAWG

 

I actually tried calling your store today, apparently you're closed on the weekends. I'll try again Monday.

 

These pre-packaged systems (clover/q-see/night owl) are readily available from sams club, compusa, etc... And I'm sure other places online.

 

Here's what I've learned about the 2 in question - That I'm looking at (and currently have).

 

The CLOVER:

The DVR has a 500gb HDD. 4CH. Can do Audio if you want. Has connections for alarm and PTZ. Will output video to VGA or BNC composite video (have to buy a BNC > RCA adapter). Can remote view over the internet with WINDOWS (active x via web browser) or iPhone. Has software where you can view/backup through your local network on a windows pc (not mac). The networking is a little complicated, but not impossible. The one thing that's not printed anywhere or explained is after your change any network setting, you have to power cycle the DVR for it to take affect.. After you figure that out, its pretty straight forward. I have to call tech support monday, because I thought I was able to set each channel up separately for resolution, frame rate, etc... seems like now whatever res/fps I choose is set across all channels? Not sure on this one - could be user error. I know for a fact it records D1 (704x480) 7.5fps, H/D1 (704x240) 15fps, CIF (320x240) 30fps. Has email alerts (though I have yet to get that working- I think its GMAIL's fault though), recording methods are motion detection, continuous, scheduled, etc... Does have automatic time retrieval via the internet (I thought that was a nice touch). Comes with a mouse and remote control. Runs quiet. I have no idea how LONG it will record, but its been up for 3-4 days on 2 channels and only used about 75gb on D1... Which seems like PLENTY of space - I'm assuming (GUESSING) 14 days min recording, which imo is plenty for my application anyway.

 

The OSD of the DVR shows time, but the video is not date/time stamped. Neither is it while remote viewing, or backed up.

 

The software interface is not pretty... very basic, very blah - "DOS" LIKE (if you remember those days). No icons, or anything... just simple lines, characters.. .no graphics to speak of. This might be a blessing in disguise ? I don't know yet. Very 8-bit computer (GOD, did I just give away my age?)

 

CLOVER CAMERAS: Came with 4 CCD 24 IR-LED 45ft night vision cameras with 3.6mm optics (?) Very narrow field of view, all are bullet style cameras with sun visor hoods (adjustable). All 4 cameras are the same. With mounting brackets and hardware. and each camera comes with 60 ft of cable for video/power. Oh and I think the cameras are 1/4 sensor ? (I read somewhere sony, but can't find it again anywhere)

 

Q-SEE:

The DVR has updated graphics for sure.. The pdf manual online shows LOTS OF CONFUSING SETTINGS. Seems like it has at least 3 recording modes, (1) D1 ALL CH 7.5FPS --- (2) D1 CH1 30FPS, CIF CH2-4 30FPS --- (3) CIF ALL 4CH 30FPS. Again, 500GB HDD, don't know much more about this one, since I don't currently have this one.

 

CAMERAS: Again, CCD, 24 IR-LED 40ft night vision, 1/4 SONY CCD (claims the web site), comes with two 3.6mm 30degree field of view cameras, and two 6mm 55degree field of view cameras. Bullet style with mounting brackets, hardware, cables, etc...

 

(NOT IN THE RUNNING) Night Owl, which from what I have seen online - seems to be made by the same manufacture as the Q-see stuff, as the menu's look exactly the same - but all the bundles I've found for Nightowl come with CMOS cameras with 11 IR-LED's 30ft night and I'm told CMOS is no where near as good as CCD (?).

 

 

I hope this sheds some light on these pre-packaged sub $400 systems.

[SEANHAWG 1]

Sorry you couldnt reach me. I am not in the office on the weekends but you can email me as I am always checking my email.

 

If the clover DVR works for you then stick with it. That is if you are satisfied with the cameras. I am sure the Q-see isnt too much different. 3.6mm wont work in all scenarios, it may be fine for some typical room settings or short range outdoor shots but I prefer vari-focal lenses on cameras because it helps you zoom in and out for various applications. With the 3.6mm lens, you are stuck with that. Its also odd that its 3.6mm, but it has a vary narrow field of view as you said. I would figure with a 3.6mm lens, it would have somewhat of a wide view. Lens strength is one of the most important aspects of a camera. But this is my point on the packaged systems, the DVR's are sometimes okay but the cameras are usually not any good. If you are wanting to go budget, and you want decent quality, my suggestions is to buy a budget DVR and perhaps get some better cameras. An installer on another thread mentioned that he used a $99 Q-see and gave a decent review of it and said that it had good recording quality. Perhaps you can PM him to see where his client bought it. I also sent you a PM.

[rory 0]

that 3.6 is probably on a 1/4" chip so it wont be wide angle like a 3.6 1/3".

You could always change the lens for a wider fixed lens, though you may experience some blur on the edges especially with the 1/4" chip.

[tomcctv 187]

Hi JD. i think your dvr specs are in ips and not fps 50ips = 25fps ..... 30ips = 15fps .... no reason to go above 15fps as you cant see any differance.

[Guest]

Hi JD. i think your dvr specs are in ips and not fps 50ips = 25fps ..... 30ips = 15fps .... no reason to go above 15fps as you cant see any differance.

 

 

Sure you can see difference between 15FPS and 25FPS! Especially on moving objects!

 

When talking about 50/60 it is also FPS not IPS, take a look at http://vivotek.com/products/model.php?network_camera=ip8352&also=ip8352&tab=over

 

50/60FPS at HD720 Resolution then we are talking, but ofcourse for overview cameras, no need for more then 25 FPS in a retail store. When I am talking about 50&60FPS it is for a entrance camera where people are walking and you want to use video recordings later for identify people. For instance a 7-Eleven have 1 High res/high speed camera for entrance door then 25FPS cameras with ? Resolution for the rest.

 

For a highway traffic monitoring maybe need as low as 1 FPS. But you can take and have a look at still images from 15/25FPS and then compare with high speed cameras. Specially H264/Mpeg4 needs more FPS. Mjpeg is better for 1 single frame.

 

 

JD

[Soundy 1]

When talking about 50/60 it is also FPS not IPS, take a look at http://vivotek.com/products/model.php?network_camera=ip8352&also=ip8352&tab=over

 

That's not a standard analog camera. PAL/NTSC SPEC IS 25/30FPS. Period.

[tomcctv 187]

Hi JD. i think your dvr specs are in ips and not fps 50ips = 25fps ..... 30ips = 15fps .... no reason to go above 15fps as you cant see any differance.

 

 

Sure you can see difference between 15FPS and 25FPS! Especially on moving objects!

 

When talking about 50/60 it is also FPS not IPS, take a look at http://vivotek.com/products/model.php?network_camera=ip8352&also=ip8352&tab=over

 

50/60FPS at HD720 Resolution then we are talking, but ofcourse for overview cameras, no need for more then 25 FPS in a retail store. When I am talking about 50&60FPS it is for a entrance camera where people are walking and you want to use video recordings later for identify people. For instance a 7-Eleven have 1 High res/high speed camera for entrance door then 25FPS cameras with ? Resolution for the rest.

 

For a highway traffic monitoring maybe need as low as 1 FPS. But you can take and have a look at still images from 15/25FPS and then compare with high speed cameras. Specially H264/Mpeg4 needs more FPS. Mjpeg is better for 1 single frame.

 

 

JD

 

your customers will not see any differance from 15 to 30

 

http://www.panasonic.com/business/security/demos/PSS-recording-rates.html

[cctvguy1 0]

So after reading through this forum I decided to do a little research myself and I just thought I would post a system by a newer company called Zmodo. They have a 4 Channel system with a 500GB HD and 4 1/3" CCD Outdoor Cameras for $xxxx with free shipping.

 

[edit by mod-store link removed]

 

DVR Features

 

* 4 CH H.264 Surveillance DVR

* 1TB HD Installed

* H.264 Hardware Compression

* Video Input / Output: BNC 4/ BNC 2

* Audio Input / Output: RCA 4/ RCA 2

* Two Type Video Out: TV Monitor BNC Output and PC Monitor VGA Output

* Signal System: NTSC / PAL

* Display: 120 fps

* Record: 120 fps

* Recording Mode: Continuous/ Motion Detection/ Time Scheduled

* Remote Access: Internet Explorer or Netviewer Software

* PTZ via RS-485 Port

* Support Remote View via Smart Phone & 3G Mobile with each of those systems below:

a) iPhone™;

b) Google Android™;

c) Blackberry™ OS V4.7;

d) Windows Mobile™ Pro 5.0 & 6.1;

e) Symbian™ S60 3rd & S60 5th.

 

Camera Features

 

* 1/3" Sharp Color CCD Image Sensor

* 420 TV Lines, Horizontal

* 3.6mm Lens

* Signal: NTSC

* Iris: Auto

* Night Vision Min. Light: 0 Lux (IR On)

* IR Irradiation Distance: 50' (15m)

* Mount: Ceiling or Wall

* Weatherproof: Yes

* Video Connector: BNC

* Power Connector: RCA 12V DC

 

Package Includes

 

* (1) DVR-H9104V DVR with 1TB HD

* (4) CM-P21323BK Color IR Outdoor Security Camera

* (1) 25' Surveillance Video + Power Cable

* (2) 50' Surveillance Video + Power Cable

* (1) 99' Surveillance Video + Power Cable

* (1) 12V/3A DC 5 Port Power Supply for CCTV Camera

* (1) IR Remote Control

* (1) User's Manual

[tomcctv 187]

So after reading through this forum I decided to do a little research myself and I just thought I would post a system by a newer company called Zmodo. They have a 4 Channel system with a 500GB HD and 4 1/3" CCD Outdoor Cameras for $xxxx with free shipping

 

 

 

same system. very low quality cif only. box systems never work. cctvguy1 how many more times are you going to change your company name. ??? good way of dodging upset customers.

[Guest]

LOL

[Birdman Adam 0]

15FPS is perfect for almost all situations. You may want 30 if your recording a highway, or your driveway, somewhere where objects are moving 20+MPH. Otherwise its just a blatant waste of disk space!

[cctvguy1 0]

What upset customer are you talking about? This is definitely my one and only name on here and I just got my first account today after running across a link to this forum from a blog. Just curious of what you are referring too because I legitimately would like to know..

[tomcctv 187]

What upset customer are you talking about? This is definitely my one and only name on here and I just got my first account today after running across a link to this forum from a blog. Just curious of what you are referring too because I legitimately would like to know..

 

 

 

hi cctvguy. i was just talking about the company name you posted. .... they call themselfs something new every vew months. just copy past there phone number into google.