renz05725 0 Posted March 25, 2011 Monday 8am sharp..... Show up to site and begin installation of 3 additional cameras on a 32 channel system that is currently only using 28 channels. This is a dairy that in the main hallway is 30ft high and roughly 650 ft long. 1st camera of cable is run in no time, 30 minutes tops since it is only about 75ft away from the dvr/mdf. Cable is siemese cable rg59/18-2. Things are going great! 2nd camera is roughly 60 ft away from the dvr/mdf and this goes super smoothly as well!!! What an easy install!!! IT's going great! 3rd camera is #3 for a reason! I will have to run it roughy 600+ft away from the dvr/mdf and I will have to run it thru the 30ft ceilings while production is going. roughly 2 hours later, this cable is run to a 500ft point where we will cut it and splice it to the remaing portion that will go to the camera. Monday is done and we have spent a total time of roughly 4+ hours onsite. Tuesday it BEGINS!!! Tuesday we finish running the remaing 150ft to the camera from the splice point at 500ft. Total time to run this 150 feet is almost 2 hours because of where it is located, ceiling heights, conduit install and so forth. 1 hour to terminate the 3 cameras at all points and get them onto the dvr. But for some reason none of the 3 cameras are coming up, we spend a little time trouble shooting, but have to head out. This is a short day onsite because of other sites we have going. Wednesday the heat of the hell before us is BLAZING!!! Onsite at 8am, begin to trouble shoot cameras. First we trouble shoot the 650ft run. We check the connectors and they seem to be alright. Next we check the voltage at the camera and so forth. At the power supply it is showing 13.46, at the 500ft splice it is showing 12.27 and at the camera it is showing 12.07. So power is not an issue. So what can it be? Well lets reterminate each termination (4 total because of the splice), while testing at each point before moving onto the other. Guess what... Still not working! 1 hour later, we decide to move onto the next cameras... Camera 1, is not coming up! DAMNIT!!! I run the same trouble shooting method. Check the connectors, check the voltage and reterminate both ends... NOTHING!!! What the hell is going on!?!?!?!???? Camera 2, we had to drill thru a concrete wall and I'm thinking that when we pulled the cable, it might have stretched or over stressed the cable, so we do some quick trouble shooting which is basically what we did to camera 3 and 1 now.. But NOPE it doesnt' come up! WTF!!!! I go back to the dvr and move cameras that are installed onto the channels I am trying to connect these new cameras to. They work fine on this empty channels... What can it be?............ I go back to camera 3 and try to trouble shoot that again... But to nothing.... 6 hours later and i'm fustrated and call it a day. I go and call some buddies in the industry and I borrow his cable tester/certifier.... Thursday... Today... I go and test camera 3 first, since that is the one is scaring me. It's 650ft worth of siemese cable which isn't cheap and it is not an easy run to have to rerun.... From the 500ft splice to the camera the cable passes... from the 500ft to the dvr/mdf the cable FAILS!!! FAULT!!!! WTF?!?!?! We didn't stress the cable over pulling it. So we go and check the connectors again and retest... FAIL AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Move to camera 1, while i think about whats going on with camera 3..... Camera 1 cable test FAILS AS WELL!!!! FAULT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF is going on here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Check the connectors and actually recompress new ones as well. STILL FAIL!!!!!!!!! Move to camera 2 cable test.... By now u must have guessed it! FAIL!!!!!!!!!!! Now I'm confussed... I'm upset... I'm baffled... What the heck is going on here!!! Screw it... I decide to take the remaing footage off the spool to get to the back end, terminate it at both ends and test the spool of cable. Gues what, 230ft FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ON THE SPOOL!!!!!!!!!! This can't be, I reterminate it as well and retest and FAIL!!!!!!! This damn spool of 1000ft siemese cable is SCREWED!!!! A install that should have been taken care of in 2 days tops is going on day 5 because the cable was defected from the factory!!! I took it to the company I bought it from and I show them what is going on, take them to the site and test with them infront of me, retest at their site.... They say they will reimburse me my cable cost. But i need more! I need connector cost, I need labor cost and I need RECABLING cable cost! Because I'm gonna have to go and rerun 650ft worth of cable in 30ft ceilings and then rerun the 2 short runs! This quick install had been nothing but HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted March 25, 2011 Sounds like terror! BTW is that DC or AC? If its DC that might also cause a lack of video on the 650' run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
renz05725 0 Posted March 25, 2011 the power supply is a High Power DC Wall Mount, 16 Output, 17.2amp power supply. I have 3 other cameras at the similiar distance running at 12.07 tested on my multimeter at each camera with no video problems at all on those. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted March 25, 2011 What cable was it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 187 Posted March 25, 2011 the power supply is a High Power DC Wall Mount, 16 Output, 17.2amp power supply. I have 3 other cameras at the similiar distance running at 12.07 tested on my multimeter at each camera with no video problems at all on those. how many cameras are you running on your 16 output power supply. 650ft (200m) you have 12v at the camera end you also need another test. amps. your power supply is 1.2 amp per outlet .... you will not run a camera at 650ft at that amp. what type of camera are you using Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptzguy 0 Posted March 25, 2011 Ok, am I right in thinking that the power is not the issue here it's the video?? I've had a few problems with siamese before so no longer use it, thankfully it was only short runs and it ended up in the bin. I use RG59 and a good quality 2core .5 or .75 over distances, unless I'm using cat5 of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
renz05725 0 Posted March 25, 2011 the power supply is a High Power DC Wall Mount, 16 Output, 17.2amp power supply. I have 3 other cameras at the similiar distance running at 12.07 tested on my multimeter at each camera with no video problems at all on those. how many cameras are you running on your 16 output power supply. 650ft (200m) you have 12v at the camera end you also need another test. amps. your power supply is 1.2 amp per outlet .... you will not run a camera at 650ft at that amp. what type of camera are you using I have 9 cameras on that power supply. I am using digital watch dog cameras. Why would amp's cause the cable to fail its test on the tester? I dont get that at all, u dont even connect the power to the tester. The tester showed fails on the coax at 300+ feet and at 230+ feet on the spoil. Just for more info. I tested another reel already that is 1000ft whole and it passed with the same tester. The spoil is bad. Ptz i was taught to use siemese cabke and it is what i know. As far as using cat5 or cat6 with balums is concerned. I am not sure about it yet. How good is reliability? Points of failure and so forth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
renz05725 0 Posted March 25, 2011 Oh and just incase the question is brought up. I tested the cable with a Jdsu Validator cable teste/certifier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptzguy 0 Posted March 25, 2011 Ptz i was taught to use siemese cabke and it is what i know. As far as using cat5 or cat6 with balums is concerned. I am not sure about it yet. How good is reliability? Points of failure and so forth. Using Cat5 is fine however because it's solid core care must be taken when pulling-in the cable, watch for snags as solid core breaks easily. As for baluns they're fine(as long as you dont buy the mega cheap ones!), there was an issue once with Adata POE baluns where the RJ45 connector was a bit of a loose fit causing intermittent picture problems. They soon rectified that problem and started producing baluns that had a good solid connection with the RJ45 connector. I would have definately used Cat5 for the longest run, if they wanted to add another 3 cams at a later date you wouldn't have to pull cables all the way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted March 25, 2011 Loving how everyone jumps to conclusions, obviously before reading all the way through the original post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ak357 0 Posted March 25, 2011 I would love to see if you can short center conductor with braid on one end and measure resistance on other end and tell us value Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 187 Posted March 25, 2011 Loving how everyone jumps to conclusions, obviously before reading all the way through the original post. no one has jumped to conclusions. we understand he has a bad roll of cable. but other have also picked up power at 650ft (200m) is also going to be a problem with power on 12v dc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ak357 0 Posted March 25, 2011 Loving how everyone jumps to conclusions, obviously before reading all the way through the original post. no one has jumped to conclusions. we understand he has a bad roll of cable. but other have also picked up power at 650ft (200m) is also going to be a problem with power on 12v dc The ? is did he measure voltage with or without load Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted March 25, 2011 Loving how everyone jumps to conclusions, obviously before reading all the way through the original post. no one has jumped to conclusions. we understand he has a bad roll of cable. but other have also picked up power at 650ft (200m) is also going to be a problem with power on 12v dc And jumped to the conclusion that it IS a problem. Until the coax is fixed, the *possibility* is the least of his concerns. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted March 25, 2011 Loving how everyone jumps to conclusions, obviously before reading all the way through the original post. no one has jumped to conclusions. we understand he has a bad roll of cable. but other have also picked up power at 650ft (200m) is also going to be a problem with power on 12v dc Yeah thats why I mentioned it, I dont normally run 12VDC over 150' for cameras, I go AC for longer runs. Though if its a really low current draw like a mini bullet or dome, then it could go a few hundred, but id have thought 650' would be pushing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptzguy 0 Posted March 25, 2011 Yeah thats why I mentioned it, I dont normally run 12VDC over 150' for cameras, I go AC for longer runs. Though if its a really low current draw like a mini bullet or dome, then it could go a few hundred, but id have thought 650' would be pushing it. With all the bloody sunshine you guys get over there how come you dont have solar powered cctv?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptzguy 0 Posted March 25, 2011 Thanks! What? For coming up with the idea of solar CCTV?!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted March 25, 2011 No, wrong thread... oops Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted March 25, 2011 Yeah thats why I mentioned it, I dont normally run 12VDC over 150' for cameras, I go AC for longer runs. Though if its a really low current draw like a mini bullet or dome, then it could go a few hundred, but id have thought 650' would be pushing it. With all the bloody sunshine you guys get over there how come you dont have solar powered cctv?! lol .. $$$$$ and people broked .. actually my friend here just turned his Alarm Monitoring company almost all solar .. 20 panels and a building for the batteries plus the original 2 generators. I say almost all as the Central AC is not on the solar. He just did his house also .. and he is on the radio talk shows all the time (running to be a politician BTW) trying to push it .. people just arent that interested here yet though. Customs Duty is still high on Solar hardware. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssmith10pn 0 Posted March 26, 2011 I didn't see it mentioned. Did you check for video at the camera? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssmith10pn 0 Posted March 26, 2011 I agree with shorting the core to the shield on one end and check continuity at other end. I'm guessing the cable won't be bad. I have been pulling RG6 and RG59 for almost 15 years and have never ever ever had a bad cable. I have had one bad piece of cat5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted March 26, 2011 I agree with shorting the core to the shield on one end and check continuity at other end.I'm guessing the cable won't be bad. I have been pulling RG6 and RG59 for almost 15 years and have never ever ever had a bad cable. I have had one bad piece of cat5 Did you miss the part where he already used a proper cable tester/cerifer and came up with failures in most of his runs, including the cable that was still in the box? All shorting one end will do is tell you if you have an open/break in the wire... it won't tell you if there are other shorts along the way, or issues like bad dielectric or crushed sections. Search the forum, there are previous threads dealing with experiences people have had with cable that was bad right out of the box - usually cheap offshore stuff, but ISTR one or two instances of good name-brand coax that was defective from the manufacturer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted March 26, 2011 FYI all the Jdsu Validator cable teste/certifier does with Coax is test for open and short in the cable and it will also tell you the distance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hardwired 0 Posted March 26, 2011 Haven't had any issues like that with fullsize cable (luckily), but a few years back, our usage of mini RG59/20 piggyback ended, after quite a bit of it began failing during or just after install. The inner foam core broke apart, allowing the braid and core to touch. If you were trying to pull off a little foam while stripping it, you would pull out several inches of the foam insulation, or more. The manufacturer replaced the bad cable, and offered us more free, but it cost us a lot of labor, and we changed to fullsize after that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ak357 0 Posted March 26, 2011 All shorting one end will do is tell you if you have an open/break in the wire... it won't tell you if there are other shorts along the way, or issues like bad dielectric or crushed sections. In your opinion how "bad dielectric or crushed sections" affect video ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
