Messoa CatchAll Engine in License Plate Cameras

[cglaeser 0]

The Messoa CatchAll engine is used to reduce headlight and taillight glare/blooming in their license plate cameras. Anyone know how this is accomplished? Are they reading the CCD two or more times at different shutter speeds and then combining over/under exposed frames into one final frame?

 

Best,

Christopher

[ssmith10pn 0]

I always thought it was done with filters to narrow down the light spectrum to only IR.

[cglaeser 0]

I always thought it was done with filters to narrow down the light spectrum to only IR.

 

I thought the same thing, and perhaps some older LPR cameras like Bosch/Extreme do it what way, but I think Messoa does it with some type of DSP processing.

 

Best,

Christopher

[cglaeser 0]

This does not give much detail, but it does hint at some sort of video processing:

 

"MESSOA designed the CatchAll™ engine, an innovative technology for optimized video processing, to deliver clear color overviews and razor-sharp number-plate shots of speeding vehicles to external recognition software regardless of the setting or lighting conditions."

 

I've been testing the Messoa SCR510 long-distance license plate camera and it performs extremely well to about 100'.

 

Best,

Christopher

[thewireguys 3]

This looks like a very nice IR unit by them.

 

http://www.messoa.com/global/product/index.aspx?id=215

[ssmith10pn 0]

We were approached by this companies rep about 2 years ago. He claimed they did a lot of OEM stuff for several of the big name brands.

[cglaeser 0]

I've been testing the Messoa SCR510 and it does an exceptional job of capturing plates at 75' to 100'. If my site was 100', I would purchase two right now. Unfortunately, my site is 145', so I need to do a little more testing and investigation.

 

The SCR510 comes with a 75mm Tamron lens on a 1/2" Exview sensor. One option is to replace with lens with a slightly longer lens and add an external IR source. The manufacturer will not include another lens, but I'm assuming this can be done by the installer and it will work.

 

Another option is to test the SCR515Pro, which is available in the US with a 10-120 varifocal lens. This model uses a 1/3" Super HAD II sensor. I'm guessing this sensor is not as sensitive as the 1/2" Exview, in part because it has half the area, and in part because it is HAD and not Exview. On the other hand, there have been significant improvements in HAD, and some HAD II sensors are more sensitive than previous generation Exview. So, I would actually have to test this unit to be certain, but I'm guessing I may have to add even more IR for the SCR515Pro to reach 145', but won't know for certain unless I actually test it.

 

In summary, I think the SCR150 will work with a longer lens and more IR, and the SCR515Pro will work with more IR.

 

Best,

Christopher

[cglaeser 0]

I just had another phone conversation with Messoa pre-sales tech support (he's quite helpful). He says the SCR515Pro is more advanced than the SCR510, and that's the unit to select with the optional 10-120 lens for 145'. He is confident there is sufficient IR to capture plates at 145'. The 50 degree IR on the SCR515Pro seems like a bit of a waste when the lens is at a long setting, and I will need to test this to make certain it will work, but he says it will. Even if I have to add a $500 10 degree IR, this seems like a nice option. Add an Avigilon NVR with JPEG2000 encoder and a couple SCR515Pro cameras, and possibly an external IR, and we should be good. I'll continue to report progress.

 

Best,

Christopher

[ssmith10pn 0]

How wide is your lane of traffic?

[cglaeser 0]

How wide is your lane of traffic?

 

The entrance and exit are about 400' long and are separated by an island. Although the entrance and exit are about two lanes in width, drivers tend to drive more or less in the middle. In addition, as drivers make the 90 degree turn to enter/exit, they tend to go a little wide, so the plate tends to cross the center of the image as they make that turn.

 

Best,

Christopher

[ssmith10pn 0]

Just be aware with that much width you will miss some. If you make your shot wide enough to cover the whole width the pixel count will be too low.

[cglaeser 0]

Just be aware with that much width you will miss some. If you make your shot wide enough to cover the whole width the pixel count will be too low.

 

Yep, understood. One thing that will help a little is that the cameras are 145' from the start of the lanes, and they look straight down the 400' length of the lanes. The cameras line up right down the middle of each lane, which means if the plate is slightly to the left or right of the frame at 145', the plate will come into frame a few feet later. You are right, the number of pixels could begin to get low at that point, but the plate will then stay in view for multiple frames, increasing the odds of adding forensic information. We also get two chances, one on entry and one on exit, and while not all vehicles have front and rear plates in CA, most do, and that's one more chance to grab something. In the end, it's far better than what we have now, which is nothing.

 

Best,

Christopher

[joseph.chen0312 0]

Messoa's stuff is great as for you questioned ,which have many way to reduce mostlt is the characterisc fetured in DSP which should default HSBLC for highlight cover and WDR to devide the light and LP. And the ICR just let color temperature pass or cut to the sensor.

[cglaeser 0]

have many way to reduce most it is the characteristic featured in DSP which should default HSBLC for highlight cover and WDR to divide the light and LP.

 

Thanks for the info. I suspected it was done in DSP. Regarding the extremely wide dynamic range, do you know if they scan the CCD more than once to produce a single frame?

 

Also, the manual makes reference to another model, the SCR516Pro, that is 1/2" ExView (the SCR515Pro is 1/3" Super HAD II). I called tech support at Messoa USA and he had never heard of this model, and said it was not available.

 

I also saw a reference to a 50 degree and 6 degree IR. Does the IR source have both? Is this an option?

 

I am very interested in these cameras. Is there someone I can contact to discuss these issues in more detail?

 

Best,

Christopher

[joseph.chen0312 0]

I am not sure does SONY has 1/2" ex-view CCD sensor, I have to do home work check the datasheets. WDR has two way to do all is same to DSP and CCD sensor. one is make two times scan to devide the brightness contradistinction. It is default rate in parameter but you know some time is average rat for all characterisc to gain perfect synergy.

 

The angle for IR Led is depend s one how long distance you paln to project i.g. more longer distance the all LED angle need lower for focus straigt, and there are many angle for different distance 10, 20, 30.. and/or mix up.

 

But not only for distance sometimes you need estimate best length otherwise IR bounce to the sensor it effects bad picture. Maybe you could try when you toward to an red wall you will finding some thing is interesting .

 

Too much to talk.

[cglaeser 0]

I am not sure does SONY has 1/2" ex-view CCD sensor, I have to do home work check the datasheets.

 

I have a SCR510 in my possession for testing. The website, datasheet, and manual all say 1/2" Exview.

 

The angle for IR Led is depend s one how long distance you paln to project i.g. more longer distance the all LED angle need lower for focus straigt, and there are many angle for different distance 10, 20, 30.. and/or mix up.

 

The SCR510 is 10 degree. Since my application is 145', I'd like to get the narrowest possible. However, the SCR515Pro has a varifocal lens, so I'm guessing most of the IR would be wasted at the long end of a 10-120 lens. Would be nice to replace the ring-of-fire LED with a narrow beam, but I'm guessing that is not an option. I will probably have to add a narrow beam external to illuminate to 145'. Not a big problem, if the camera works as well as I think it will.

 

Best,

Christopher

[joseph.chen0312 0]

Sorry could I know why you ask so deeply and in detail are you an engineer or you want to create you won business in the security poor.

[cglaeser 0]

Sorry could I know why you ask so deeply and in detail are you an engineer or you want to create you won business in the security poor.

 

Sure, good question. I am not an installer and I am not creating a business. Our homeowner association wants to install two license plate cameras and an overview camera at the entrance and exit. So, why am I asking all these detailed questions. The problem is I know far more than the vast majority of installers (I designed and installed my own custom surveillance system in my home, and it is more sophisticated than the typical home install). First, most installers have never heard of Avigilon, and the NVR will certainly be Avigilon, and the IP overview camera will likely be Avigilon. Second, most installers have never done a license plate install, and this license plate application is 145', which is beyond the limits of most LPR cameras. This install will likely be in the $10K range, and it's very important that we select the right equipment for best performance. That is why I am doing all the homework, and then when I know the equipment to use, I will give this information to a licensed installer and let them do the install.

 

And yes, I am an engineer, and also a photographer, so I understand some of these issues relating to software, electronics, light, lenses, and related technologies. As an engineer, I'm also very curious as to how systems work.

 

All that said, I think the Messoa SCR515Pro may be the best solution for this application. I'm hopeful I can get a demo unit to test. Any additional information you can provide would be much appreciated. Feel free to ask me any questions; I'll be happy to answer them.

 

Best,

Christopher

[mike_va 0]

I've been playing around with this the last few months. Best results was with fast shutter (depends how fast you are trying to capture), 87C filter on the lens from B&H ~$60, and IR. Obviously the more IR you have will give you the faster shutter speed, and helps overcome headlights. The beauty though is the plates are retro reflective which sends the light back to where it came from. I've had just a little IR and I can light up the stop sign, where other things are not that well lit. Also positioning helps so that it is above the headlights (10 ft worked well for me) so the camera is not looking directly into them. IP cams work good, but if you have tight area it's hard to beat the additional contrast of analog (Bosch day-night and CNB both work well). It can also help to back the AGC down sometimes. Hope this helps.

 

Attached is a shot of a P1344 at 80 yards (with IR), about 1/8th of the FOV behind perspex (which does not block light as well as the filter I mentioned). You should be able to do better than this though.

[cglaeser 0]

I've been playing around with this the last few months. Best results was with fast shutter (depends how fast you are trying to capture), 87C filter on the lens from B&H ~$60, and IR.

 

I did similar experiments last year with similar results. I picked up a name brand IR bandpass filter on eBay for cheap and combined it with a RayMax. I live in CA, which uses retro-reflective plates, and with sufficient IR, you can get decent results. However, my tests with Messoa were in a totally different league. I don't know if they are using an IR bandpass filter as part of the solution (I'm guessing no, but am not certain). In any case, their DSP is making significant contributions to final image quality. I'm guessing they double scan the CCD, and then use DSP techniques to combine and further enhance the image. I'll post some examples when I get a chance.

 

Best,

Christopher

[cglaeser 0]

Messoa SCR510 Day 100 feet

 

Messoa SCR510 Day 145 feet

 

Messoa SCR510 Night 50 feet (tail light with lighted plate)

 

Messoa SCR510 Night 70 feet (headlight with non-lighted plate)

 

Messoa SCR510 Night 130 feet (headlight with non-lighted plate and tail light with lighted plate)

 

Messoa SCR510 Night 145 feet (no lights, and beyond the specification of the IR)

[mike_va 0]

Looks like it does a good job, within the limits of its range. Of course one might hope so given the price...thanks for posting the pics

[joseph.chen0312 0]

Sir

 

It is good test chart. And you are right now almost CMOS megapixel camera have facing one problem to capture the LP while in the night the light is draging.

 

By teh way, could I know which is best way to reach you.

 

B/rs

 

Joseph Chen

[cglaeser 0]

By teh way, could I know which is best way to reach you.

 

Sent via PM.