System Setup for Bar Cash Register (Loss Prevention)

[BrianChicago 0]

Hello,

 

I've poked around the forums quite a bit, and I'm hoping you good people can help me in a new system design for a bar. What we want to do is best described with pictures, so I have attached a imagestrip (scroll to bottom and click expand button) to this post and also uploaded a higher quality image here http://bit.ly/security_imagestrip

If you view via the link, click on the image to zoom in.. Even though the pictures are relatively bright, they are deceiving, and the room is very dim.

 

Here is what we would like to do

(This will only make sense if you look at the attachment):

A) Record the display showing the "ring total" for each transaction (See photo #2 showing what I mean by the "ring total" display)

B) Clearly see which bottle is picked up from the back rack (so we can see grey goose was poured, and match that with Camera #1.)

C) See the bartender pour the drink, and be able to count how long the pour is.

Note 1: It would be nice to see the bills going into the register, but not critical if we catch the "ring" (total) for each sale.

Note 2: We would like to be able to review camera online remotely. The recordings are for internal review to audit bartenders, not for legal evidence.

 

I've gathered that Dahua is the way to go for bang for your buck. So, to accomplish the goals listed above...

 

Here are my specific questions:

 

#1 Which DVR will sufficiently meet our needs without needless expense on the hardware?

There are other registers in the same bar that we would eventually like to expand to, so we would like a 16 channel DVR.

Is the hybrid at this link http://bit.ly/11YOqpA ideal so we can save money by having flexibility with choice of cameras?

OR is it overkill, and a less expensive choice from this link http://bit.ly/18fBbEd would suffice (which one is appropriate?):

 

#2 What type of camera will we need to catch the total "ring" as shown in photo 2 of the image strip? Let's call this camera #1.

The light is low and the number is relatively small. If possible, please suggest a specific model that would be compatible with your recommendation from question #1. We aren't afraid to spend money, but we don't want to spend money on equipment that exceeds our requirements.

 

#3 What type of lower quality camera would you recommend (remember, very low light) for the other cameras? Let's call these cameras #2-#4.

Cameras #2 & #3 (covering half of bar each) focusing on the bottle rack at the back of the bar to view exactly which bottle is picked up by bartender. Then, Camera #4 with a wider view to review how long the bartender pours (the pour count).

 

 

I've gathered that http://www.securitycameraking.com/ is a good option, so let's stick with their products if possible.

 

I'm really looking for specific recommendations for the DVR and compatible cameras with links to products.

 

I am forever grateful for your help, and I realize i'm asking for free consulting, so thank you!

 

- Brian

 

[tomcctv 187]

I've gathered that Dahua is the way to go for bang for your buck. So, to accomplish the goals listed above...

 

I've gathered that http://www.securitycameraking.com/ is a good option, so let's stick with their products if possible.

 

 

System Setup for Bar Cash Register (Loss Prevention)

 

 

if your looking for POS integration and low light then your not going to get it with dahua.

 

 

what is your budget

[BrianChicago 0]

The registers are old school mechanical registers. There is no POS. There is no hard budget. However, we would like to accomplish the task with equipment that does not exceed our requirements.

[tomcctv 187]

Re: System Setup for Bar Cash Register (Loss Prevention)

 

The registers are old school mechanical registers

 

 

 

hi. then I would start with registers first. if there that old then installing a none POS dvr like the dahua will just be a waste if you say deside to change registers in a year.

 

 

 

looking at your bar pictures ....... you can just see why that bar has losses.

[BrianChicago 0]

Can anybody offer a response to my original post? I'm not looking for somebody to explain to me how a POS works or how a bar should be setup. I'm looking for advice on what cameras and DVR are appropriate for the task. Thanks.

[tomcctv 187]

Can anybody offer a response to my original post? I'm not looking for somebody to explain to me how a POS works or how a bar should be setup. I'm looking for advice on what cameras and DVR are appropriate for the task. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

your post is lost prevention ........ what did you expect.

 

 

 

just go for the kings system ........ but don't use cameras with IR

[BrianChicago 0]

I understand if you don't have time to help, so no worries.

 

Here are the questions I have if somebody could offer some specific advice:

 

#1 Which specific model DVR would you recommend to sufficiently meet our needs without needless expense on the hardware?

 

#2 What specific model of camera compatible with answer #1 will we need to catch the total "ring" as shown in photo 2 of the image strip?

 

#3 What specific model of lower quality camera compatible with answer #1 would you recommend (remember, very low light) for the other cameras?

 

THANKS.

[tomcctv 187]

#2 What specific model of camera compatible with answer #1 will we need to catch the total "ring" as shown in photo 2 of the image strip?

 

 

 

 

ok ill try and explain.

 

 

picture 1. take a look first at your ceiling heights ........... you are going to have to use something like a box camera with 50m lens and it to be a true day night...... BUT look at your picture. the staff are always infront of register.......camera is always blocked.

 

if you have camera pointing down DIRECT over register then with that type of register (vertical display) then your not going to see the amounts on display.

 

and the amount of cameras you need to look at stock / register/ person being served.

 

 

but I would forget dahua DVR and just use one axis 5mp 360 that way you will catch most of what you need

 

 

http://www.sdmmag.com/articles/88342-180-panoramic-network-cameras-with-up-to-5mp-resolution

 

 

 

 

[BrianChicago 0]

Thank-you for the detail. That is very helpful.

 

Based on your comments in previous comment, which I agree with now that I think about it more, I'm thinking that a gooseneck camera wrapped around from behind the register and set about a foot from the numbers might do the trick for catching the ring amount. Something like this: http://bit.ly/113CHcF (I realize employees will notice this camera, but that is okay.)

 

1) How would you recommend implementing the axis 5mp 360 with a gooseneck camera like the link above? What would be the simplest monitoring client and storage solution?

 

2) What type of gooseneck camera would be compatible with a system running the axis 5mp 360?

 

3) In order to see everything we want to along the entire bar would we need two axis 5mp 360 overhead or just one?

 

 

Thanks for your help. I do appreciate it.

[joseph.chen0312 0]

All night club would be challenge for each installer and/or system integrator for myriad lighting and high activity rate.

 

I agree with Tom point out you better carry out OSD BOX camera equipped P-iris lens e.g. AXIS, Vivotek..

 

As for legacy cash register, I have some idea, one set up virtual alert line which has programmed at some IP cam, NVR, VMS even for analogue DVR or you could stick magnetic sensor to register while its opening it can triggering system to snapshot to be event for premises owner.

[SectorSecurity 0]

Sounds to me like you just need a couple cameras watching the cash drawers and a system to measure your liquor pours, sounds to me like you need more a a liquor management system to stop losses then a CCTV system.

 

Other then that I agree, you need to go digital and get an NVR not a DVR. I think several cameras mounted above your bottles would be good but that is my opinion.

 

Just remember anywhere someone can reach a camera they will reach the camera and the camera will slowly get moved or destroyed.

[blake 0]

I'm going to agree with Sector.I know you want to install cctv, but i would first try to spend that money on a liquor management system. The systems nowadays tie into your cctv/pos so it would really be an all in one system. Check out Barvision..

[BrianChicago 0]

Guys-- I'm sure it was all with good intention, but I was looking for camera advice (which a couple people did offer...). I'm not sure why people thought this business needed advice on other matters, but I can tell you that there are a lot of checks and balances in place to track inventory levels. In terms of liquor management systems that are more invasive, like one that actually measures the exact pour with a special electronic bottle cap-- many were considered, and and dismissed for one reason or another, which I won't get into here, because people come to this forum for camera advice.

 

The liquor management system that was settled upon was a camera system to do random audits, which I had hoped to receive practical advice on at this forum. Alas... for anyone who stumbles upon this thread who is attempting to put something similar in place, but do NOT want to spend big money on commercial james bond level equipment that cost way more than necessary to accomplish the task, here is what we bought:

 

+ A dahua made 16-channel DVR found at this link for $450: bit.ly/17hWwfe

+ A 2 TB internal 7200 hard drive for about $100

+ Couple thousand feet of-- SIAMESE RG59/18-2 (we found 1000 ft on ebay for around $100. Cheapest we could find online was $80 for 500 ft)

- For the cable, you also need to purchase power and BNC ends to terminate the cable (you can get these for next to nothing in bulk):

2 bcn twist on per camera like this bit.ly/17hXIzh

1 power connector per camera like these: bit.ly/17hY7BG

+ 16 camera CCTV power distribution system for $80 like this one bit.ly/17hXXdy

 

CAMERAS:

+ we mounted pinhole cameras on a rigid (but flexible if you muscle it) pole directly on the register "ring" about 2 ft slightly above the register curled from the rear of the register like a candy cane to point right at the register ring. We found this camera for $35, but are probably going to upgrade to a wider angle lens, although this one does the job: bit.ly/17hYgFn

+ To catch what was being poured and for how long, we mounted $100 dome cameras from two opposite diagonal angles so there were no blind spots with good low light responsiveness like these bit.ly/17hYDj8 . I'm sure the people who recommended the uber expensive stuff are shaking their head, but if you have worked as a bartender, you don't need a HD picture to know the shape of a Grey Goose bottle, particularly when you see the bartender pull it off the top shelf. Regardless of that, this $100 camera actually has a pretty great picture.

 

Also, I thought I might mention to those who thought a "liquor management system" was the only way to accomplish our goal-- based on the duration of the pour, I can tell you within a quarter ounce how much was poured from a bottle. Certainly within a half ounce. The art of the liquor count.

 

This system allows us to review via the internet on a laptop or smart phone, and was pretty cheap. It has been put in place, and it accomplishes the goal described in my original post. I wish all of you luck in your bar consulting endeavors. Adios, amigos.

[SectorSecurity 0]

Your post is useless without pictures, as I can tell you all day I have amazing video from a 420 TVL Camera.

 

As for the post you received we were simply offering suggestions, and showing there is more then 1 road to your solutions.

 

I hope you get a good frame rate over the internet to be able to count your liquor pour, I would be surprised if you are getting more then 7.5 FPS over the internet.