To IP or not IP..that is the question...

[robzee67 0]

All right...you are going to meet this customer and you want to bring him up to speed with technology and cameras etc...

 

This customer wants a system the will not need a security personal to monitor the system...ptz...etc

 

Do you..

 

Tell him about everything that is available...stand alone, pc base, ip camera/software?

 

If so, how to break it down...and tell him the pros and cons or do you?

 

Or just go with my experience and judgement call and sujest to him one system only leaving the others?

 

Is IP cameras much better?..if so why?..seems that every big company are pushing their ip cameras...

[rory 0]

to answer the last question, no. And who are the "big" companies, there arent many IP camera manufacturers.

[robzee67 0]

big companies as in Dedicated, Samsung, Honeywell etc you visite their websites and almost every time you will see an add about IP something...

 

is it the futur of cctv or just a trend?..

[rory 0]

just a trend since none of them make IP cameras really ..

 

Axis and Acti are the big players in IP cameras or servers ..

 

dedicated as in DM??

 

There is a future with it, well its here now, but i imagine it will be integrated with analogue ..

[VST_Man 1]

it's al about listening and then you offer the options. offering him one option/system is allowing him no options to select from but one. and be prepared to offer up detailing "yours" against "others" so that you can CLEARLY explain that yours is just as good and cheaper on the install price, ect.

 

as a salesman, you sell

[jisaac 0]

it all breaks down to does your product fit their needs? Price is always a big concern. Usually the biggest. But if you can clearly explain how what you have chosen fits their needs usually you can be higher and still get the job.

We are always the highest bid around here. And alot of people end up going with us. I am just glad i have a background in sales. Read tom hopkins series books. They are great.

[Flip-Top 0]

My take on the IP debate.

 

Old style CCTV with coax, camera and a monitor will (provided you use quality products) will produce a better image quality under all circumstances than IP. Period.

 

IP solutions offer advantages in terms of ease of install and connectability.

 

IP will get better with time, a year or so ago most IP cameras touted as security cameras were little more than re-badged webcams. There are some new lines of cameras from the major CCTV manufactures that are starting to hook up a good imaging device to a half decent video codec in a single package called an IP camera.

 

There are other issues with the IP solutions, example...

 

No standard:

I can fit a mix Panasonic, Sony, Bosch, etc CCTV cameras to a conventional system and they work happily together.

In the IP arena you have to use the same manufacturer kit through out, or mess about with trans-coding software/hardware multi format trans-coders that only work with the formats listed on the box, and not the format of the camera the client wants added in two years time.

[Cooperman 0]

Just to add a few more comments to what Flip-Top has already said.

 

Over here, IP is being touted as the future of surveillance, and many in the industry are incorrectly forecasting the imminent demise of conventional CCTV.

 

Just in passing, there is actually a very important IP Security event on this week in the U.K. (IIPSEC).

 

Anyone that I've spoken to, that have been in the industry for more than twenty years, tend to have a similar outlook. IP can undoubtedly offer more impressive technical solutions for high end users in certain applications, but the momentum that is driving the sales pitch for all things digital, tends to come down to a more fundamental issue at present.

 

Manufacturers can't make the margins on conventional gear, but they can make a few extra bucks selling IP / Digital solutions.

 

There is some very good IP gear on the market, and a lot better to come, but it's still going to be some years before we see conventional gear being replaced completely with IP systems. For the next few years, on a simple cost / technical comparison, conventional CCTV will dominate the lower end of the market, hybrid CCTV / IP systems will increase in the middle sector, and complete IP networked systems will increasingly replace top end conventional installations.

 

The general consensus is that IP isn't quite there yet, and anyone that says otherwise, is a brave person indeed.

[JMANOFNVS 0]

Its definitely part of the future, once the get all the compatibility and vulnerablities worked out of the networking world, if ever. Jisaacmagee said it best though, it all breaks down to what they need or what they want to accomplish with what they are willing to spend. I have a Sony SNCRZ30N and a Sony SNCRZ25N set up at work with an IP address I give out when a customer ask about IP cameras, I just have our tech hook which one they want to play with give them the login and 8 out of 10 think its the best thing since sliced bread. Of course these are high end but cheaper then a Spectra III and doesn't require a DVR or anything special to operate.

[WirelessEye 0]

I think hybrid systems are what's really fueling the conventional vs. IP war. Hybrid gives you all the benifits of CCTV like reliability and picture quality and all the benifits of IP like ease of management. Once someone gets the right formula (and there are a couple of companies that are REALLY close) then they won't be able to keep product on the shelves.

 

BTW- I thought the Sony SNC-RZ30N was the best thing until sliced bread too, until I saw it at night head to head against a Spectra IIIse. I haven't seen the SNC-RZ25N yet, is it any better with night visibility?

[JMANOFNVS 0]

Toshiba has a nice hybrid dvr and I have heard there hybrid cameras not to shabby. I haven't seen either of sony's ptz's at night with lighting variables but the 30n should be better if properly set up because is has an ir filter, dont think the 25 does although both can be set manually to b/w mode or even on a timer. I sell more of the 25n's because the video looks smoother over the net and its a couple hundred dollars cheaper, its only 18x optical zoom though and the 30n's has alot more features. Where did you see it against the specta ??

[rory 0]

whats the Sony's Compression and required bandwidth?

[JMANOFNVS 0]

I know the 25n is mpeg4 or jpeg selectable. Here is a link for ya. If you want to check it out let me know I will set it up for you to play with.

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplaySubCategory?m=10001&p=3&sp=147

[Thomas 0]

While I agree with Cooperman for the most part, there is a place for IP on lower end systems. But it is definitly a niche use. Wireless IP can be a much better solution for some users then standard wireless CCTV cameras. But for 95% of uses, conventional cameras will be a better, cheaper option.

[WirelessEye 0]

That's too bad. The 30n is absolutely horrible at night.

[JMANOFNVS 0]

I think the 30n you seen wasn't set up right. I spoke with a customer today about the same thing since you said that and he told me it has to be in tune...who set that 30n up?

[WirelessEye 0]

We set it up. We played with the settings for the backlight, and shutter priority. We were able to get a "decent" night image from it, but on "slow shutter" when anything would drive by, it would be horribly blurred like time lapse. Not really much you can do about it, the Lux rating is 2.5. The camera we replaced it with is 0.01-- no shutter adjustment needed.

[JMANOFNVS 0]

You should have added an IR if you wanted to see fast images. Of course images will be blurred when you slow the shutter speed way down.

[WirelessEye 0]

Yeah of course with IR it would be better. What I'm trying to say is that it shouldn't need IR. The camera I replaced it with doesn't, because it has much better light sensitivity. Although I saw the new SNC-RX550N looks to be a much more "up to par" offering. If anyone has one of these up (I don't know if they are even out yet), I'd be interested in seeing what it looked like.

[JMANOFNVS 0]

Good point, but still it was top notch for its time. Ya the new line of Sony's are supposed to be awesome. I actually want to see how good the SNC-CS50 is, it supposed to be designed for variable lighting conditions. As soon as they are released I am sure we will have one up to play with. Right now we have the SNCRZ25N, SNCRZ30N and the SNCZ20N, along with about 6 different Networkable DVRs up to play with. The only problem is the way its set up now you can only use one at a time but it should be rockin and rollin in about a month when the New Demo wall is done.

[WirelessEye 0]

We are probably going to be installing up north pretty soon, would it be cool if we stopped by your office to see your place?

[JMANOFNVS 0]

Sure thing!! DOn't mind the mess when you get here, we are starting to move all the BS unnecesary crap to our new building. Has anybody told you how your girls look yet?? Don't tell them I said anything..I will PM u the details.

[jeromephone 6]

my take on IP

 

Network load can be an issue

 

Price of cameras tend to be higher priced with lower reslutoion than standard cameras

 

Limit to a few cameras if wiring is an issue

 

network down = security system down

 

Does the IT dept want to be in the camera business

 

Storage of images on network servers can eat up a lot of usually more expensive harddrive space

 

DVR only one IP to manange and one traffic stream to control

[Thomas 0]

And that is why an IP based security system needs to be on a seperate network. They should also be on seperate hardware. Differant switches, differant wiring and the only common point between the two networks should be the DVR.

[WirelessEye 0]

Couldn't the same argument be made for using and NVR? Afterall, there'd only be 1 IP to manage there, at least in the end...