robzee67 0 Posted January 16, 2006 All right...you are going to meet this customer and you want to bring him up to speed with technology and cameras etc... This customer wants a system the will not need a security personal to monitor the system...ptz...etc Do you.. Tell him about everything that is available...stand alone, pc base, ip camera/software? If so, how to break it down...and tell him the pros and cons or do you? Or just go with my experience and judgement call and sujest to him one system only leaving the others? Is IP cameras much better?..if so why?..seems that every big company are pushing their ip cameras... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted January 16, 2006 to answer the last question, no. And who are the "big" companies, there arent many IP camera manufacturers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robzee67 0 Posted January 16, 2006 big companies as in Dedicated, Samsung, Honeywell etc you visite their websites and almost every time you will see an add about IP something... is it the futur of cctv or just a trend?.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted January 16, 2006 just a trend since none of them make IP cameras really .. Axis and Acti are the big players in IP cameras or servers .. dedicated as in DM?? There is a future with it, well its here now, but i imagine it will be integrated with analogue .. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VST_Man 1 Posted January 16, 2006 it's al about listening and then you offer the options. offering him one option/system is allowing him no options to select from but one. and be prepared to offer up detailing "yours" against "others" so that you can CLEARLY explain that yours is just as good and cheaper on the install price, ect. as a salesman, you sell Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jisaac 0 Posted January 16, 2006 it all breaks down to does your product fit their needs? Price is always a big concern. Usually the biggest. But if you can clearly explain how what you have chosen fits their needs usually you can be higher and still get the job. We are always the highest bid around here. And alot of people end up going with us. I am just glad i have a background in sales. Read tom hopkins series books. They are great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flip-Top 0 Posted January 23, 2006 My take on the IP debate. Old style CCTV with coax, camera and a monitor will (provided you use quality products) will produce a better image quality under all circumstances than IP. Period. IP solutions offer advantages in terms of ease of install and connectability. IP will get better with time, a year or so ago most IP cameras touted as security cameras were little more than re-badged webcams. There are some new lines of cameras from the major CCTV manufactures that are starting to hook up a good imaging device to a half decent video codec in a single package called an IP camera. There are other issues with the IP solutions, example... No standard: I can fit a mix Panasonic, Sony, Bosch, etc CCTV cameras to a conventional system and they work happily together. In the IP arena you have to use the same manufacturer kit through out, or mess about with trans-coding software/hardware multi format trans-coders that only work with the formats listed on the box, and not the format of the camera the client wants added in two years time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cooperman 0 Posted January 23, 2006 Just to add a few more comments to what Flip-Top has already said. Over here, IP is being touted as the future of surveillance, and many in the industry are incorrectly forecasting the imminent demise of conventional CCTV. Just in passing, there is actually a very important IP Security event on this week in the U.K. (IIPSEC). Anyone that I've spoken to, that have been in the industry for more than twenty years, tend to have a similar outlook. IP can undoubtedly offer more impressive technical solutions for high end users in certain applications, but the momentum that is driving the sales pitch for all things digital, tends to come down to a more fundamental issue at present. Manufacturers can't make the margins on conventional gear, but they can make a few extra bucks selling IP / Digital solutions. There is some very good IP gear on the market, and a lot better to come, but it's still going to be some years before we see conventional gear being replaced completely with IP systems. For the next few years, on a simple cost / technical comparison, conventional CCTV will dominate the lower end of the market, hybrid CCTV / IP systems will increase in the middle sector, and complete IP networked systems will increasingly replace top end conventional installations. The general consensus is that IP isn't quite there yet, and anyone that says otherwise, is a brave person indeed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JMANOFNVS 0 Posted January 24, 2006 Its definitely part of the future, once the get all the compatibility and vulnerablities worked out of the networking world, if ever. Jisaacmagee said it best though, it all breaks down to what they need or what they want to accomplish with what they are willing to spend. I have a Sony SNCRZ30N and a Sony SNCRZ25N set up at work with an IP address I give out when a customer ask about IP cameras, I just have our tech hook which one they want to play with give them the login and 8 out of 10 think its the best thing since sliced bread. Of course these are high end but cheaper then a Spectra III and doesn't require a DVR or anything special to operate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WirelessEye 0 Posted January 24, 2006 I think hybrid systems are what's really fueling the conventional vs. IP war. Hybrid gives you all the benifits of CCTV like reliability and picture quality and all the benifits of IP like ease of management. Once someone gets the right formula (and there are a couple of companies that are REALLY close) then they won't be able to keep product on the shelves. BTW- I thought the Sony SNC-RZ30N was the best thing until sliced bread too, until I saw it at night head to head against a Spectra IIIse. I haven't seen the SNC-RZ25N yet, is it any better with night visibility? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JMANOFNVS 0 Posted January 24, 2006 Toshiba has a nice hybrid dvr and I have heard there hybrid cameras not to shabby. I haven't seen either of sony's ptz's at night with lighting variables but the 30n should be better if properly set up because is has an ir filter, dont think the 25 does although both can be set manually to b/w mode or even on a timer. I sell more of the 25n's because the video looks smoother over the net and its a couple hundred dollars cheaper, its only 18x optical zoom though and the 30n's has alot more features. Where did you see it against the specta ?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted January 24, 2006 whats the Sony's Compression and required bandwidth? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JMANOFNVS 0 Posted January 24, 2006 I know the 25n is mpeg4 or jpeg selectable. Here is a link for ya. If you want to check it out let me know I will set it up for you to play with. http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplaySubCategory?m=10001&p=3&sp=147 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas 0 Posted January 24, 2006 While I agree with Cooperman for the most part, there is a place for IP on lower end systems. But it is definitly a niche use. Wireless IP can be a much better solution for some users then standard wireless CCTV cameras. But for 95% of uses, conventional cameras will be a better, cheaper option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WirelessEye 0 Posted January 24, 2006 That's too bad. The 30n is absolutely horrible at night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JMANOFNVS 0 Posted January 25, 2006 I think the 30n you seen wasn't set up right. I spoke with a customer today about the same thing since you said that and he told me it has to be in tune...who set that 30n up? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WirelessEye 0 Posted January 25, 2006 We set it up. We played with the settings for the backlight, and shutter priority. We were able to get a "decent" night image from it, but on "slow shutter" when anything would drive by, it would be horribly blurred like time lapse. Not really much you can do about it, the Lux rating is 2.5. The camera we replaced it with is 0.01-- no shutter adjustment needed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JMANOFNVS 0 Posted January 26, 2006 You should have added an IR if you wanted to see fast images. Of course images will be blurred when you slow the shutter speed way down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WirelessEye 0 Posted January 26, 2006 Yeah of course with IR it would be better. What I'm trying to say is that it shouldn't need IR. The camera I replaced it with doesn't, because it has much better light sensitivity. Although I saw the new SNC-RX550N looks to be a much more "up to par" offering. If anyone has one of these up (I don't know if they are even out yet), I'd be interested in seeing what it looked like. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JMANOFNVS 0 Posted January 26, 2006 Good point, but still it was top notch for its time. Ya the new line of Sony's are supposed to be awesome. I actually want to see how good the SNC-CS50 is, it supposed to be designed for variable lighting conditions. As soon as they are released I am sure we will have one up to play with. Right now we have the SNCRZ25N, SNCRZ30N and the SNCZ20N, along with about 6 different Networkable DVRs up to play with. The only problem is the way its set up now you can only use one at a time but it should be rockin and rollin in about a month when the New Demo wall is done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WirelessEye 0 Posted January 26, 2006 We are probably going to be installing up north pretty soon, would it be cool if we stopped by your office to see your place? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JMANOFNVS 0 Posted January 26, 2006 Sure thing!! DOn't mind the mess when you get here, we are starting to move all the BS unnecesary crap to our new building. Has anybody told you how your girls look yet?? Don't tell them I said anything..I will PM u the details. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeromephone 6 Posted January 30, 2006 my take on IP Network load can be an issue Price of cameras tend to be higher priced with lower reslutoion than standard cameras Limit to a few cameras if wiring is an issue network down = security system down Does the IT dept want to be in the camera business Storage of images on network servers can eat up a lot of usually more expensive harddrive space DVR only one IP to manange and one traffic stream to control Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas 0 Posted January 30, 2006 And that is why an IP based security system needs to be on a seperate network. They should also be on seperate hardware. Differant switches, differant wiring and the only common point between the two networks should be the DVR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WirelessEye 0 Posted January 30, 2006 Couldn't the same argument be made for using and NVR? Afterall, there'd only be 1 IP to manage there, at least in the end... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites