Need advice on a new system. Our current method won't work..

[tomcctv 187]

Home monitor plus is a chargeable service to use it. And you opt into it.

This allows the HD app and the roku service .... You need to stop using those apps and go for there standard one or use the eye spy one.

Then stream to TVs via another option

 

If your not happy using the y-cam and waste 2k then change everything to another camera system ...... But you are still going to have the SAME problem the tv stream

 

 

How many cameras do you have. .? At each location

[dmills913 0]

You got this problem since 2014 ?

 

Yes, between Early June and late October 2014, I was in regular contact with their tech support.

 

At the time, they were planning on expanding their pay portion of the cameras (where you pay $4.99 per camera per month) and they would remove the 15 minute time limit and also give a URL where you could share the camera without requiring the end viewer to have a log/pw (it would be a url controlled through their login panel) they updated me on progress several times and ultimately said that they were scrapping the idea. Unfortunately, this was around the time our window to return the cameras would end.

[tomcctv 187]

What I know is only through their website and what dmills913 described.

 

And coming from a software development perspective, there are systems designed in such a way. And those are the limitation imposed deliberately for some reason.

 

As mentioned in their website, they don't support > 15 mins of viewing at a time.

http://support.y-cam.com/customer/en/po ... amera-live

 

And like I keep on saying home monitoring is a add on service at $45. And is not needed which will end the problem of 15-20 minutes

 

On there standard app you can watch till the cows come home ... Watch 365 days a year

 

And it can all be done local

[dmills913 0]

We have 5 cameras in each location (1 died in one of the schools just after the warranty period ended) so we have a total of 9 active cameras. I had long discussions with Y cam about their plus package. Ultimately, it didn't add anything that we were interested in. It was primarily a "we'll hold on to your footage longer" thing.

 

The email I received said that their Roku service was ending completely, so I doubt they're holding onto it for their plus package. They are always a little slow to update their website I've noticed.

 

I think I understand the confusion. Y-cam has a line of IP cameras (I believe they are called cube). Those work exactly as you're describing, and have no limitations, and work locally. They are unrelated to any subscription service.

 

Unfortunately, those aren't the cameras I have. Their home monitor line gives 7 days free recording on their servers for free. There is no way at all to use the cameras locally, nor even view them locally. The only way I can view footage on my cameras is camera->y-cam servers->me. The pay service is an add on to this. I am not paying for it. It adds 30 days free recording rather than 7, and probably a few other minor features.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Guest

[dmills913 0]

Another one of Y-Cam's big issues, unfortunately, is their marketing speak. They claim that you can watch as much as you want, 365 days a year. Technically... this is true. BUT, you are limited to watching for 15 minutes maximum at a time. At that point, the system cuts out, and you're more than welcome to start it right back up. I had a long discussion with Chris at Y-Cam about this exact point. At the time, they actually only had 2-3 employees working there, and I was on a first name basis with them through tech support.

 

There is, unfortunately, no way to view the Y-cam cameras that I have for more than 15 minutes at a time. Y-Cam does make other cameras in their ip line that don't have this limitation, and aren't a part of their cloud service.

 

Edit:

This article on their support page (poorly) describes what I'm talking about:

http://support.y-cam.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1661650-can-i-use-a-y-cam-ip-camera-with-homemonitor-

[tomcctv 187]

I can't seem to get the point across ... We are all talking about different methods

 

You are using there apps for remote viewing over WAN .

 

You still have LAN and this method does not restrict you at all.

 

 

I think I'll back out from giving advice over this problem .. It's being made difficult but others who have openly said they have never been involved with y-cam

[dmills913 0]

I'd be happy to admit if I'm wrong. If you could tell me what I can try, I'll try it out first thing tomorrow morning. What should I try?

[Daryl733 0]

I can't seem to get the point across ... We are all talking about different methods

 

You are using there apps for remote viewing over WAN .

 

You still have LAN and this method does not restrict you at all.

 

I think I'll back out from giving advice over this problem .. It's being made difficult but others who have openly said they have never been involved with y-cam

 

I think you are referring to Y-Cam IP Cameras.

dmills913 is referring to Y-Cam Home Monitor Cameras.

They are entirely 2 different range of cameras sold by Y-Cam from what I gathered.

http://support.y-cam.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1661650-can-i-use-a-y-cam-ip-camera-with-homemonitor-

 

Y-Cam IP Cameras may function like a normal IP camera where you can access through direct IP (LAN), etc.

Y-Cam Home Monitor Cameras can only be access through their cloud services and not through direct connection like what you keep repeating.

 

It'll be something like assuming Analog Cameras from Dahua can be access through internet without the network DVR when the Dahua have IP Cameras that could.

 

I can't find any info regarding the Y-Cam IP Cameras on their website. Following the link from the previous page (https://www.y-cam.com/internet-services) reaches a page not found message. I would gather that Y-Cam IP Cameras are prob an early version of the products sold by Y-Cam that they had since discontinued at least since 2014. You prob encountered those earlier version which can be connected like normal IP Camera, which their later version can't. dmills913 got his in 2014, and it's those Home Monitor version, not those earlier IP Version.

 

Then again, I don't have 33 years of experience to back me up.

All I can do is browse the product website and actually read the FAQ of what they said the product could/could not do.

[tomcctv 187]

For someone who has never seen or touched one I don't see how you can say am wrong .

 

Again y-cam home monitor is a add on it costs $45 a year THAT IS A FACT.

BEING PART OF THAT ADD ON op gets home monitor apps one for pad one for tv box both linking to roku tv.and DOES NOT DO LOCAL only wan

 

Now there are other apps for y-cam for use on local (that op needs because cameras and tv are local) and there is also another app that does the same as roku and with no charge . There are other options like putting a y-can comparable NVR on his network

 

But being allowed to give this free advice on the forum is proving hard when someone is saying it can't be done

 

Y- cam have been around for years if you think y-cam moving from roku home monitoring makes them fail to use y-cams own apps and render all there cameras useless then I don't agree

But if that's the advice you want us all to agree with then there is no help for the op

[dmills913 0]

Hi Tom, I appreciate your answers on this forum. I came here asking for help, and I apologize if I'm coming across as argumentative.

 

I don't know how to view the cameras locally. If you know of a way to do this, please let me know. I would strongly prefer to keep the cameras we have if it is possible. Thanks in advance!

[dmills913 0]

I actually did look into an NVR option related to Y-Cam cameras after you mentioned it was possible. Unfortunately, the only ones I could find are compatible solely with Y-Cams IP camera line (the Bullet Line or the Cube line). Do you know of an NVR I can look at that would support the Home Monitor line of cameras?

 

If it helps, I'll attach photos of the front and back of one of the cameras. I appreciate the assistance!

 

Pictures of the Camera with model number:

http://imgur.com/XTYfbNu

http://imgur.com/6s5CKZN

 

Thanks!

[Daryl733 0]

Perhaps then I understand what y-cam had on their website wrongly.

http://support.y-cam.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1661650-can-i-use-a-y-cam-ip-camera-with-homemonitor-

 

It is not possible to combine HomeMonitor cameras with Y-Cam IP Cameras.

HomeMonitor cameras are designed to send videos to the cloud and also work with the HomeMonitor WebPortal and our app which is available for Android and iOS devices.

If you would like to use an internet-based service with your Y-cam IP camera there are a number of great ones available. We have listed some of them on the Y-cam website at http://www.y-cam.com/internet-services and all of those work with Y-cam IP cameras.

 

I probably misunderstaood that HomeMonitor cameras with Y-Cam IP Cameras. means 2 different range of Equipement Y Cam sold.

The link http://www.y-cam.com/internet-services doesn't work as well.

Maybe from your experience Home Monitor Cameras and Y-Cam IP Cameras means the same thing.

 

That probably arises from my lack of experiences. I admit I don't have 33 years of experience under my belt. " title="Applause" />

Only 10+ years and another ard 10 years in software development & design and data analytic.

 

My opinion are from what I know and what I read. It's never a definite one only solution and it's always open for discussion for a solution.

I've also no commercial interest in any of the brand and that's why I don't really recommend any brand/model over another nowadays.

 

I would be interested to see a workable solution for dmills913 to resolve his current issues using his current camera and setup with minimum additional cost. We could all learn something from this.

[tomcctv 187]

Maybe from your experience Home Monitor Cameras and Y-Cam IP Cameras means the same thing.

 

No I don't think they are the same at all. If you read from my first post and the rest .... DONT USE home monitor option. That means get the cameras off roku apps

 

Use the standard apps .... Use local. Use that or eyespy app.

 

From my first post I have been trying to get the op off the home monitor and get him to go local. That is how simple it is

 

But here I am trying to get the OP back up and running yet I have you in the middle blocking the threads progress.... It's pointless having to explain to the op and you coming in and blocking what is an easy solution.

 

But again am not going to waste my free time on this it's pointless

 

THERE IS NO MORE TECHNICAL HELP ANYMORE ON THIS FORUM ITS ALL TELLING PEOPLE TO BUY NEW

the op has over 2k tied up in cameras with an easy solution which is what the forum is all about.

 

Home monitor is an option. Don't use that option and use IP address local or use RSTP URL. IT IS THAT SIMPLE

[tomcctv 187]

It's an option

[dmills913 0]

Do you mean this app?

http://www.overpass.co.uk/app/eye-spy/

 

I'll try it when I get back o the office. I downloaded a trial of Blue Iris to see if it could see the cameras on th network, but it doesn't find any cameras. I checked the IP address of one of the cameras on the network (192.168.1.90) and tried to connect, but it said "no camera found". I'll try that app and post back.

[dmills913 0]

Yes, Home Monitor plus is an option that you can pay for and add to th HomeMonitor line of cameras. I don't have it and am not paying for it.

[tomcctv 187]

Yes, Home Monitor plus is an option that you can pay for and add to th HomeMonitor line of cameras. I don't have it and am not paying for it.

 

 

Home monitor was free and worked with roku tv box and again was option

And had a short time login.

 

It changed Jan 2016 with a cost

 

Now you have the camera IP you need to login to each of the cameras IP and change ports ... Then you add each camera to the app

[dmills913 0]

The App is the "Eyespy" app that you talked about?

 

I can put the URL of the camera into a browser, and it says "Click to Update the cameras firmware". There's no login or anything. I don't mind trying to update it, but it asks me to upload the file to upgrade the firmware, and I don't have an upgrade file.

 

When searching for the firmware, I found this forum post with someone asking about compatibility with (what I believe is) another NVR software package:

https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic.php?t=108559

 

The reason I keep saying "Home Monitor" is because that's actually the name of the camera.

[dmills913 0]

I downloaded the Eyespy app, but when I enter the URL for the camera, it just says "Unable to connect." There's no login or password for the cameras that I have (or if there is, I don't know what it is). The only way I've ever managed the cameras were logging into their web interface and changing settings there (it has all the cameras that are on my account together).

[dmills913 0]

It occurs to me that you might have been referring to this software? https://www.ispyconnect.com/

 

I downloaded it and tried it out, but it wants a login/password for each camera. As far as I know, the HomeMonitor line doesn't have a login/password for the camera. I looked through the original documentation, and it says to add them through the web interface to your account. I looked for default login/pw and it says admin/1234, but it also says that that is for their bullet line. This blog entry (http://ycamoldblog.wpengine.com/homemonitor-answer-to-ip-camera-hacking/) for the Home Monitor line says that there isn't a default login and password, but that you create the password for your account, and then your individual cameras are inside that. Just for kicks, I tried the login/pw to the account, but it didn't work.

 

The ispyconnect software does see the cameras on the network, but when it scans for valid urls, it finds zero.

 

Edit:

I found this page on the ispyconnect site:

https://www.ispyconnect.com/man.aspx?n=Y-cam#

 

I tried all the URLs, but the part holding me back is the login/password.

[Daryl733 0]

It is not possible to combine HomeMonitor cameras with Y-Cam IP Cameras.

HomeMonitor cameras are designed to send videos to the cloud and also work with the HomeMonitor WebPortal and our app which is available for Android and iOS devices.

If you would like to use an internet-based service with your Y-cam IP camera there are a number of great ones available. We have listed some of them on the Y-cam website at http://www.y-cam.com/internet-services and all of those work with Y-cam IP cameras.

 

Then it's probably me that's mistaken.

HomeMonitor Camera as mentioned in y-cam website doesn't mean an equipment or a range of their equipment. but rather a services as you highlighted.

All their IP Cameras are called Y-Cam IP Cameras .

 

Could be clearer if they called it HomeMonitor Services.

 

My mistake then.

[Daryl733 0]

Here's a list of the app by Y-Cam, is the standard app any of these apps you are referring to ?

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/developer/y-cam-solutions-ltd/id366454061

 

Or something else by another developer ?

[dmills913 0]

After spending the last couple days trying everything I could find, and several different software ideas, I have to conclude that it is impossible to use the cameras in any local manner. I'd love to be proven wrong, but since no one seems to be able to offer a working solution, I need to move in another direction.

 

That being said, I'm considering these as an option:

 

Office Camera (One per school): Dahua IPC-EB5400 Fisheye 4mp (Link)

Classroom Cameras (5 per school): Dahua IPC-HDBW4421F-AS 4mp (Link)

 

As an NVR, I'm considering the following:

A) Dahua NVR4208 (8 Channel 4k Recorder) (One per school): (Link)

or

B) Blue Iris or some other software based NVR system.

 

I have a few questions related to the options I'm considering and wondered if anyone has any thoughts.

 

1) Does it make sense to get 4k cameras and a 4k NVR? The price was hardly any higher and seemed more future-proof, also allowing us to zoom in on recorded footage if we ever needed to.

 

2) Is it possible to save the 4k footage to the hard drive while sending 720 or 1080 signal to the TVs?

 

3) I called BHPhoto and Video and they said that the NVR4208 recorder can send a different cameras signal to two different TVs. It has an HDMI and a VGA out. Does this seem wrong? In order for it to be able to send to two different TVs, it would need more than outputs, but also some software side method of sending a certain signal to a certain TV, right?

 

4) Do NVRs such as this one typically come with a remote control? Are they administered through a 3rd party computer? When we send the signal to the TVs, as much as possible, I'd like to do it quickly and without too much fiddling around in front of the parents. The staff that will be using the system will be very unfamiliar with technology in general, and I need something simple.

 

5) The classroom cameras are called "Wedge Dome" on the Dahua website, and I'm guessing this means they are made to be put in between wall and ceiling? Would these work wall mounted at about 7 feet up? Would they look weird?

 

6) Though the Dahua NVR seems fairly cheap, a software package like Blue Iris is still cheaper since we have extra computers at our schools that could run it. What advantages and disadvantages are there with a dedicated NVR box vs a computer running a software NVR? I have some guesses, but wondered if someone could confirm.

 

Dahua NVR:

Pros:

Would definitely work with Dahua cameras

If it needed to be near the TVs, the NVR box would have a smaller footprint vs a normal computer.

Less fan noise?

Wouldn't have to worry about specs not being enough to run the cameras/handle the signal.

 

Software NVR:

Seems to have more features?

More upgradeable due to the larger case (more hard drives, etc)

Would be more likely to work with various cameras if we later decided to use mixed brand cameras, or a camera broke and we needed to replace it with a cheaper off-brand etc.

Seems to be more designed for running on one computer, but administering from other computers. Would this mean I could tuck the computer with the software NVR in a closet somewhere, and administer it from other computers? That seems nice.

 

For a software NVR, would a computer running a total of 6 cameras be under a very heavy load? Even if they were 4k cameras, I wouldn't honestly ever need to view more than 2 at a time on any given screen, and probably never more than 2 screens at once.

 

Any other thoughts? Any pros I missed? The advice I had received up to now said to use "Blue Iris" or "Milestone", and no one had mentioned an NVR box. On this forum though, I was told to just buy an NVR.

 

I'll be happy to post this in a new thread if this has become a bit off-topic.

 

Thanks!

[Daryl733 0]

After spending the last couple days trying everything I could find, and several different software ideas, I have to conclude that it is impossible to use the cameras in any local manner. I'd love to be proven wrong, but since no one seems to be able to offer a working solution, I need to move in another direction.

That's best left to people with more than 30 years of experience to prove what the manufacturer posted on their website is wrong. I am not sufficiently experienced or qualified to comment on this.

 

1) Does it make sense to get 4k cameras and a 4k NVR? The price was hardly any higher and seemed more future-proof, also allowing us to zoom in on recorded footage if we ever needed to.

Are you connecting the 4K camera to the 4K NVR through local network or through internet ?

If it's through internet, you'll have to see how much bandwidth you have and if it support recording at that kinda resolution.

4K Video Streaming will require around 12Mbps per camera. Do you have that kind of bandwidth ?

Otherwise, you'll not be able to record at those resolution. But as you said, price's not much of a different, and if you are willing to pay for future proof, why not.

But most of the time, future proving isn't necessary unless you have immediate/midterm plans to upgrade your broadband connection plan to support the multiple 4K camera streaming. Otherwise 4 years later, you'll still not be tapping the full potential of the system, and by that time, prob new standard will be up and running and prob can stream 4k with much better compression.

 

2) Is it possible to save the 4k footage to the hard drive while sending 720 or 1080 signal to the TVs?

"Sending" i assume you mean through HDMI/VGA Connection. Yes, it should be able to.

 

3) I called BHPhoto and Video and they said that the NVR4208 recorder can send a different cameras signal to two different TVs. It has an HDMI and a VGA out. Does this seem wrong? In order for it to be able to send to two different TVs, it would need more than outputs, but also some software side method of sending a certain signal to a certain TV, right?

What it mean is you can configure the display differently on the HDMI and VGA Out.

e.g. HDMI Out shows Camera 1,2, 3, 4 while VGA Out only show camera 2.

This will be the default camera display, so whenever the system is off and on, it'll default to these camera display order.

 

4) Do NVRs such as this one typically come with a remote control? Are they administered through a 3rd party computer? When we send the signal to the TVs, as much as possible, I'd like to do it quickly and without too much fiddling around in front of the parents. The staff that will be using the system will be very unfamiliar with technology in general, and I need something simple.

Packaging remote controller together with DVR/NVR seems to be getting rarer from manufacturer. Most system support mouse control, and they don't come with remote controller anymore nor suppor them. You can however use wireless mouse.

If you configured the system correctly, you don't actually need to fiddle on anything on the NVR except to power it on. The predefined channel would come on the TV.

 

5) The classroom cameras are called "Wedge Dome" on the Dahua website, and I'm guessing this means they are made to be put in between wall and ceiling? Would these work wall mounted at about 7 feet up? Would they look weird?

They are quite normal nowadays. Lower profile.

 

6) Though the Dahua NVR seems fairly cheap, a software package like Blue Iris is still cheaper since we have extra computers at our schools that could run it. What advantages and disadvantages are there with a dedicated NVR box vs a computer running a software NVR? I have some guesses, but wondered if someone could confirm.

For me, I'll go with NVR. Less problem. No OS layer to take care of, e.g. Window Updates, antivirus , etc.

Then again, that's just me. I don't have over 30 years of experience to back me up.

[dmills913 0]

Hi Daryl,

Thanks for the help. I don't think we would ever need to view 4k over the internet, as long as we could view at least a 720 stream from the 4k cameras. The cameras don't actually do 30fps at 4mp anyway, so we'll almost certainly be running them at 3mp or lower. Honestly, for our parents (who would all be viewing locally anyway), we won't need to be running anything more than 720. Anything higher than that would just be for managers and teachers to do training with.

 

3) Ok, great. The only sticky point to it is that 90% of the time, we want to use our 'main' tv. We only really use the second tv when we have two classes at the same time. So, for example, today being Wednesday, we had a 2:00pm class in Room 1, a 3:00 class in Room 3, a 4:40 in Room 2 and another 4:40 in Room 1. In this example, we would want to show the classes at 2:00, and 3:00, as well as the 4:40 class in Room 2 on our main TV, while showing the other 4:40 class in Room 1 on our second TV. I don't know if that makes sense, but we would want to regularly be changing (as in several times a day) which TV is showing which camera. It'd be WONDERFUL if there was a script we could just have run on a weekday that would just change things automatically. It looked like Blue Iris might support some things like that with scheduling and settings. Would a normal NVR be able to change which camera the TV was showing quickly?

 

6) Thanks for your advice. The NVR does seem more simple in terms of a box that would be easier to keep out of view, and less 'moving parts', as long as it was simple enough to use. I have a lot more experience with keeping computers up to date, so I'm not particularly worried on that front, though simple is nice. One thing we do have extras of is computer systems, so we would be able to have a computer that was dedicated to just being an software NVR box. I'm starting to lean more towards just getting an NVR though.

 

I really appreciate the help and well update if I have any more questions!