Questions about ADT's DVR

I am considering having ADT install a DVR and 2 camera system. I've been reading the threads on this site and wonder how the ADT DVRs ( http://www.matrixnetworkinc.com/ViewPro/Products/dvrs.html ) stack up against the GE, Sanyo, Nuvico units. I am looking at their A-SDR400LTE and A-SDR410E.

I am interest in external sensor triggering and internal motion sensing. I want remote internet access and the ability to add an additional DVR yet have the pictures intergrated into one interface. Some kind of backup like USB or CD-RW would be nice, as would paging or email notification of a trigger. Most important is that the DVR and cams run uattended for 1-2 months at a time.

Being able to view a clip on my Verizon Treo would be great, but that seems higly unlikely.

The application is a residence in Massachusetts with intially one external day/night camera pointed across a 30'x30' parking area and a 100-150' driveway beyond. The other camera aimed at the house from a distance of 100'. Agian external with day/night capability. ADT suggests teh SDN600 http://www.matrixnetworkinc.com/ViewPro/Products/i1504/i1504.html. Any comments on the cameras would be appreciated.

I have been experimenting with Linksys IP cameras that have no ir ability and their motion sensing is triggered by pixels at night and very slight movement of trees etc during the day. Resolution shooting thru a window is poor.

TIA

Never seen or even heard of those dvr's but the specs look so-so. That ir bullet camera I doubt will give you the results you want. First question you say 1-2 months unattended..so do you want that much video stored? If so what frame rate and resolution are you wanting? For the first outdoor camera do you want to see a parking lot or the drive way? You could get one camera to see all that but it wouldn't look pretty. Second question if only one camera for first senario, what do you want to be able to make out or identify with the outside cameras with the distances you gave? With my experience that camera will not be able to make out much past 50 feet if that. Maybe some of these guys on here no about that dvr..I would recommend the GE out of the names you listed and for the cameras Extreme.

ADT cameras and DVRS suck. One would think that they would use American Dynamics stuff, but they don't.

Regarding the 1-2mo when the units would be unattended, I want a system that does not require constant maintenance not 1-2mo recording time. I envision the dvr will over write on a first-in first-out basis. Recordings will only occur when triggered by motion detected by the camera or some external sensor like an IR driveway monitor etc.

If a break in should occur the buildings' alarm system will be triggered, we would stop the dvr and backup the previuos two or three weeks of video as possible evidence.

In a residential setting I actually think a video system is more helpful in terms of 1) seeing (ie remotely) when contractors, gardeners and other workers are on the property doing their jobs, 2) scaring off professional thieves who will look for an easier target, and 3) perhaps catching the dumb family member who thinks he can steal something and get away with it.

The cameras should be able to clearly identify faces at a distance of 10-40 ft, make and color of vehicles 40-125 ft (at night I would expect less).

The first few cameras are really to test the concept of using video monitoring. The next step would be to add cameras at the entry points and outside walks. Then perhaps in one or two rooms.

I'd like to get 2 cams and a dvr for around $1500 and then add what I need from there. Are there any GE DVR models or specific cameras that you recommend?

Wait, You want all this for that price??? Sorry to break it to you, but you might spend just that on one Exterior Camera, you should be looking at around $4500-$6000 Depending on the DVR that you choose.

Hey I have 2 ADT DVR's that I have traded for (needed boat ancors) they are made by GE , Bosch , Panasonic. As some would say YOU GET WHAY YOU PAY FOR and that is what I would call LOW END I am sorry but you are not going to find anything you want in that price range as stated before that price might get you a cam that you are looking for but nothing else.

Sorry

Buddy

Even on a low end DVR, you will be hard pressed finding something with motion and a big enough hard drive to record for that long, mostly due to low end DVR's recording using MJPEG compression.

Expect to spend at least $1,500 for the recording piece of equipment and figure $400-$600 per camera.

Monster you should know better to read the whole thread first. He is looking to spend up $3000 if necessary..which it will be.. and he doesn't want 2 months of storage just a dependable system. For a GE DVR your budget might be to tight depending on the features you want. If you want a decent mid range 4 camera system $3000 should be ok for the equipment end but if you want professional installation better be ready to spend a little more.

JMAN, I was referring to his second post......

If a break in should occur the buildings' alarm system will be triggered, we would stop the dvr and backup the previuos two or three weeks of video as possible evidence.

You would ideally want MPEG4 compression if your going to want to record the most video with the least amount of hard drive requirements.

I'd like to get 2 cams and a dvr for around $1500 and then add what I need from there. Are there any GE DVR models or specific cameras that you recommend?

Again, I think you will need to save up some money from your next paycheck to cover the costs associated with a "decent" DVR and some "decent" cameras. You will be pressed finding an 8 Channel DVR with room to expand capable of MPEG4 compression and networking features that you want for less than $1500, not to mention hard drive space!

Ya he either needs to go with a good 4ch with some nice features with some storage(what I would recommend) or a so-so 8 or 9ch with some features and maybe a week of storage. Do you have any idea of the frame rate or resolution you want?

The GE will cost much more than $1500 unfortunately, Im not sure about the Sanyo or the Nuvico, but from what you say you want it sounds like you will need a PC based system.

My suggestion would be to start off with a GeoVision GV250 which is their budget entry card (i have one myself) and uses the same software as the other cards. You would more than likely be able to get it working in your current PC running in the Background, though cant say that 100% for everyone as depends on how stable their PC is to start with - runs fine in my Via Chipset, though if I play a Movie I close the DVR server.

Anyway, this will get you used to the software without spending a fortune. Once you are are happy you could build a seperate PC or buy a ready built one, then install the card in that one. Optionally you could then upgrade yourself to a faster Geo card such as the GV650 or GV800. If you will have 2 cameras or less you could start off with the GV25-2 channel card, they are very inexpensive but a solid product.

As for the cameras, I do really doubt those will barely even make a spot IR beam out to 50', perhaps 30-40' if lucky, and even that depends on what is in the location as a source of reflecton, as IR needs something to reflect off. If its a small area it wont be a problem but still only expect perhaps a small spot beam.

Beyond 10' from the camera's FOV you will more than likely not pick up a clear image of the persons face, unless you use a MegaPixel camera, and then those are expensive, plus the DVRs of today only go as high as 720x480. You should see it pretty okay out to maybe 20' but not beyond that, and then even so it depends on the camera's quality, lens, and lighting conditions, not to mention the DVR recording quality.

A camera with a Telephoto Varifocal lens could achieve it set to a fixed distance, but then unless you know the area you want to capture it wont do what you want. A PTZ will accomplish this but then you manually have to move the zoom and pan. A cheap PTZ would cost over $1000 easy, so I dont think that is an option in your application.

First you need to decide what lens options you require/want.

Then look at the type of camera such as lighting conditions, where it will be color, BW, Day Night, or Day Night with Infrared.

Basically I wouldnt waste the money on a big name brand Color IR bullet camera, as they are pretty much budget cameras so you can find the same quality out of an OEM cheaper model. In the camera forum here there are many suggestions and examples of Color IR bullets (which are not considered Day Night cameras to professionals), or you can do a search for "Bullet IR" and see what it turns up. There are too many manufacturers and OEM resellers to name, most of them sell the same products when it comes to bullet cameras, as opposed to Box or Dome cameras. For serious Infrared you would need an Extreme CCTV product and they are expensive, something like the UF100 would give you 30 degrees of Infrared Beyond 100'. 30 degrees is generally just a tad more than 1/2 the width of a 4mm lens.

Back to the DVR, the features you mentioned wont be a problem even for the GV250.

Rory

Thanks for all the input. I can see this is going to take a little more time and research (and money).

I have seen a Sanyo 3709H 80gig and GE SDVR-4-80 for $1500ea and a GE DVMRe-4CT-80 for $2000. Any particular model units I should look at (4-8ch, 80-200meg, 2 hd bays, network, USB or CF, motion detection, maybe email on alarm).

Rory, I like the GeoVision idea and have two surplus computers that might work. Need to look at the minimum specs required. Is software included with the GeoVision? If not, what would you recommend? Also can I have external triggers with the PC card?

Regarding cameras, I want good outdoor cameras but going over $500/cam is not going to happen. ptz would be fun to use but really doesn't make sense because 1) the system will be unattended most of the time and 2) cost considerations. I've been looking at outdoor IR bullet cams. They claim 80'-130' in zero light conditions using 30-70 LEDs. Pricing is between $200-500/cam. What can I expect with a 45deg FOV at 30' and 30deg at 60'+? Any suggestions for specific units or specs?

Regarding FPS and disk size, I'm just guessing because I do not know all the variables. If a dvr is recording 100% and I want decent FPS with a 4ch dvr for 1 week how many gig is enough? Do some units only record or increase FPS on trigger events that would enable using a smaller disk?

Sorry for all the questions, just want to make a good decision. Thanks.

For hard drive space it depends on(assuming you are recording 24/7 and not on motion) a)the camera resolution wether its color, B/W or DN if its got DSS(digital slow shutter) or any other special features that effect imaging b) the video its recording like a 10 minute clip of a dead hall way is going to be much smaller then a 10 minute clip from the Supebowl half time show. c) the compression the dvr records at and d) the frame rate you are recording at. I think I got most of them. Motion triggered recording will definitly save you some HD if there is dead time periods. For instance 4 hi res cameras running 24/7 in a busy environment at 15fps each 720x480 res could eat up 500 gigs in less then 48 hours.

I have a linksys web cam. It was triggered 25 times today with 5 sec clips. I’d like more record time so lets assume 1 minute per event.

Lets assume your rough numbers of 4 cams using 500 gigs in 48 hours. I estimate that one camera will use 1 gig to record 25 minutes; 4 camera, 4 gigs/day. To record 30 days I would need 120 gigs. Is that about right?

Do dvrs record continuously and only marking the time of events or do they start recording when triggered and stop after a preset time? Or do they have the capability to record at a super low speed, like 1 fps, until motion is sensed and then record at a higher speed such as 30 fps?

You answer for the DVR's is all the above!!! Depending on the dvr it can record on motion, just stamp when theres motion, record slow when no motion and speed up when there is motion, with certain ptz's the camera will zoom in on motion and even track it, some dvr's have time lapse functions that can do 1 fpm and more or less. Do you know the file size of your 1minute clip? How about the frame rate, resolution, and compression its recording at? I usually recommend 250gb for 30 days on a 4ch in a residential area if cameras are outside and mom is home with kids soemtimes. A good buddy and local cust of mine got 3 months on an 160gb 4ch mpeg4 with one cam 520lor covering 3car drive way and street in front of house in a track community 480 ir bullet in back yard with bull dog, and one in the den pointing towards the front door all were rec. at 620x480 7.5 fps on motion plus his wife is stay at home mom with 1 1/2 year old girl.

with a GE StoreSafe on motion, 4 cameras, 40GB, set to max pps and motion detection (thats 30pps or 7.5pps per camera when all 4 are recording, or 30pps when only 1 is recording) set to HIGH recording quality, in a busy Mon-Fri Office building 2 indoor 2 outdoor cameras. ... they get just over 1 month recording ...

To keep a long story short stay away from ADT. I just had a very bad experience with ADT. I decided to install a system on my own and I am much more happy now.