jhonovich 0 Posted May 3, 2008 What do you guys think about IT guys coming into security and all this talk about IT transforming security? I keep hearing that IT is wiping out the security integrators and IT is going to run security management. I think it's absurd: http://ipvideomarket.info/review/show/13 What do you guys think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted May 3, 2008 Either / or! With the coming convergence of CCTV and IP, if installer/integrators don't learn IT pretty soon, they will become dinosaurs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jhonovich 0 Posted May 3, 2008 Most integrators I know are learning IT and are picking up 1 or 2 guys with IT experience. I think this is enough for existing integrators to win. Security and electronic skills will remain the majority of the work for as long as I can see so as long as they improve a moderate amount, they should be fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted May 3, 2008 As far as IT people taking over CCTV, they too will have to learn different skills or they will fail. Most have no clue how to set up. aim and focus cameras and there are still a lot of mechanical skills needed. Many IT people lack those skills. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted May 3, 2008 Most IT guys I know are very smart with computers but have know clue how to install anything but a computer. I think installers have the edge because it takes experience to fish wires and install products in the correct applications. Stuff you can't learn from reading a book. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jhonovich 0 Posted May 3, 2008 also, my experience is that IT guys 1. expect to make a lot more money than security guys 2. don't like to do the hands-on physical work required for security Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted May 4, 2008 Well said from everyone!! It guys will only do a lick, and stick system!! You are right there is no way they are going to learn how to fish, and get sweaty up in a false ceiling!! Every system that they install will be the "everything in a box" solution from some website, and it will automatocally come with wide angle cameras, and some IT guy's butt is going to be in a sling when they cannot get the facial recognition after an event!! They will come to this forum about: ground loop problems power problems lens failures cat 5 video install problems Hey anybody can install cat 5 right??? Hell then an IT guy can run cameras!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebco 0 Posted May 4, 2008 I was buying some last minute supplies at a distributor of mine and there are 2 IT guys asking them how to do this and that, i just listened and thought exactly what Scorpion just wrote . You are scaring me man.... . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted May 4, 2008 It will only get worse!! First: To be a really good IT "guy" you have to hoard all of the information. This is called job security. Second: Supervisors, and Managers do not understand IT, (or CCTV for that matter), and they automatically delegate IT stuff to the IT guy. This is great for job security as well. Third: Supervisors, and Managers know that there are standards, and that there are certifications. As long as IT people have the certifications then that is the end of discussion. There is no testing to see if the IT people meet the standard of the certification. Fourth: If the IT section can take over Physical Security then this will enhance said job security. This will also add to the IT budget. Will PHY SEC suffer dollar loss if the money is transferred to IT projects from PS projects?? Fifth: What will happen to the "traditonal Physical Security" if it migrates to one "office" with IT? _____________________________________________________________ IT guys are in for a rude awakening!! You do not need to know piston travel distance verses cylinder size verses compression ratio to know how to drive a car. IT guys have to know a lot of "things", and it changes quickly, and rapidly. Even "old world" IT guys get left in the dirt, as each "generation" of product is issued, or a standard is updated, or a new standard is added. There is a day coming real soon where IT guys will go the way of elevator operators, switchboard (phone) operators, gas pump attendants with a pump key! (Did I just age myself)??? IT will become plug, and play, and simple to understand, and a system can be reconfigured via VNC from some large conglomerate security company. In house IT offices will be gone!! Yes there will always be an IT guy, but in the future he will be ranked on the chart next to the janitor staff! Do you want to challenge that thought? Help Desk: Skilled, highly trained, certified, and lots of "OJT", and an understanding of various programs, and program languages. NOT ANYMORE!! $8.00 AN HOUR, AND YOU DO NOT EVEN NEED A COLLEGE DEGREE!! Am I wrong?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted May 4, 2008 (edited) CCTV guys are in for a rude awakening! When ever they invent an $80.00 IP camera then most CCTV "mom n pop" shops will close down, (or migrate to another similiar device/system). It is bad enough that people can go to a website, and buy at dealer cost, and lick n stick, and then thumb their noses at us as they saved a "ton of money", or at least until the black hum bars show up, ground loops, loss of video, or lack of transmission over IP, then the CCTV crowd wants these same people to come to them on hands, and knees, begging for a "god" to save them from their misery. My observations are local, and not meant at those on the forum. Those on the forum, are savy, and professional. Come to Melbourne, and let me take you for a tour of every spy shop, CCTV shop that will be closed in a year or two if they do not wake up soon! I can take you in to a spy shop right now that does not have any spy gear on it shelf other then "quick sale", and they have to CCTV equipment. They have an outdated DVR on display, and it is no longer sold by the distributor that they use. There are no displays where you can compare camera types (bullet/box/dome) verses lens type (wide/vari/zoom). This company is hanging in by the hair of its chiny chin chin. It is a real shame! They do not do any commercial, or "high end" installs. They would not know what to do if a casino moved in, and called them for 100 cameras!! I am not joking! This saddens me every time I drive by this place. All I can do is shake my head! I look forward to IT, and Physical Security when they come together with a mutual understanding that enhances each other, and can take each other to a higher ground! Watch out when locksmiths can figure out that they can lick and stick CCTV along with locks, and access!! Edited May 4, 2008 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeromephone 6 Posted May 4, 2008 I think that it just means that the cctv guys are going to have to get more education on networking vlans routers etc. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on the It stuff but I also know that if the customer wants some fancy intergeration etc I can hire people for the project if necessary. there are a lot of IT folks on the street right now with a lot of the big businesses outsourcing and downsizing. the other thing is ten years ago PCs were somewhat of mystery to many poeple today a lot more people have at least the ability to run basic office apps and use the internet. the resident geek is not particulary necessary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted May 4, 2008 True True! I think CCTV is becoming the same way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jhonovich 0 Posted May 4, 2008 "There is a day coming real soon where IT guys will go the way of elevator operators, switchboard (phone) operators, gas pump attendants with a pump key! (Did I just age myself)??? " I think this is a great point. Product companies have huge motivation to make their products simple and not require advanced IT expertise or lots of difficult on site optimizations. Just like with DVRs, IP cameras and analytics are getting simpler and simpler. The tough elements that will remain are camera selection, positioning, system design to meet security goals, etc. These are all within the domain of the security integrator and manager, not the IT guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scorpion 0 Posted May 4, 2008 I loved all of the articles that you posted on http://ipvideomarket.info/ Do you own that website?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jhonovich 0 Posted May 4, 2008 Hi Scorpion, Thanks for the compliment. I do own the website. It started off as project to learn a new programming language. The articles are my way of thinking through issues I am seeing in the industry. The main goal of the site was to make it easy to find up to date industry information. It was just too hard to physically check each trade mag, company website, etc. I learn a lot just be seeing what comes in new each day. By the way, CCTVforum is great. Most of my friends don't seem to know about and that's too bad. I am certainly trying to spread the word. Best, John Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebco 0 Posted May 5, 2008 I am certainly trying to spread the word. No No, We can't have more guys at our yearly vegas trips It's bad enough Kidding Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonnybb1 0 Posted May 26, 2008 We have similar logistical issues with installing VOIP phone systems... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
