why is a $300 true day/night better then a infrared?

[Karen Love 0]

CCTV has becom a little bit of a hobby for me. I help my friends put together home surveilance (we design it and have the guys install it

 

For the main camera, I always reccommend a true day night camera such as a panosonic WV-CP474 or Sanyo VCC-4794. I always describe what I learned on this site about why you want a true day/night with a mechanical cut filter.

 

We then install cheaper bullet cameras with IR - Why does it seem that the cheaper IR cameras in the $180 range look just as good as the box cameras and always look better at night especially a dark night?

 

What is the main advantage of a $300 box camera that needs a seperate houseing and can't "see" in the dark because it has no IR over a decent bullet with IR and a 420 resolution?

 

I tell people that it's better but I can never see why?

[cachecreekcctv 0]

I agree with you. I can buy the bullet cameras from USAG, model 102-24B and install them all around a house, and have just as good video to cover a driveway, etc . The only advantage I see to using the "PRO" cameras, and I do use them, is that I can add on a large motorized lens to them. I myself, like the JVC TK-C925U, just my opinion. A few years ago, I designed a wireless remote control system, for use with the "PRO" box cameras. I do need the large housings, though, along with a P/T unit. Just can't put that sort of system on a house, though. Belongs way out in the country.

[Sawbones 0]

CCTV has becom a little bit of a hobby for me. I help my friends put together home surveilance (we design it and have the guys install it

 

For the main camera, I always reccommend a true day night camera such as a panosonic WV-CP474 or Sanyo VCC-4794. I always describe what I learned on this site about why you want a true day/night with a mechanical cut filter.

 

We then install cheaper bullet cameras with IR - Why does it seem that the cheaper IR cameras in the $180 range look just as good as the box cameras and always look better at night especially a dark night?

 

What is the main advantage of a $300 box camera that needs a seperate houseing and can't "see" in the dark because it has no IR over a decent bullet with IR and a 420 resolution?

 

I tell people that it's better but I can never see why?

 

I use domes, rather than bullet cameras, and the advantages I see are as follows:

 

Tougher... harder to vandalize

Can't see which direction the camera is pointed

easily concealed wiring

Can't be redirected easily

doesn't attract bugs

doesn't attract curious eyes at night

dome tends to stay cleaner than regular flat lens

Dome can be turned if it gets scratched.

selection of lenses (most cheap IR bullets come with one lens).

 

I've had IR-integrated bullets (still have one deployed... Acti 1.3Mp), but I've otherwise gone over entirely to domes with separate illuminators. Yes, it's more expensive, but I find the results to be much better

 

Maybe it's your DVR or wiring that's limiting you... because there is no comparison between the IR-equipped bullets I used to have, and the WV-CW484S domes I'm using now. The domes were more expensive than your average $100 IR bullet, but there's some truth to the you-get-what-you-pay-for saw.

[vtphilk 0]

Can you recommend a good dome for outdoor use? I have a 40ft outdoor pool to watch and a 25ft square outdoor fireplace area I want to cover. I was thinking about going with separate illuminators mainly because I plan on putting the cameras on the side of a deck.

 

I was thinking something like this:

 

CD33VFHR

[no link]

 

I could mount to the side of the 2x10's going around the 2nd floor deck. But I question the quality of this cam and also I was looking for something without IR so you would not see the LEDs.

[Sawbones 0]

Can you recommend a good dome for outdoor use? I have a 40ft outdoor pool to watch and a 25ft square outdoor fireplace area I want to cover. I was thinking about going with separate illuminators mainly because I plan on putting the cameras on the side of a deck.

 

I was thinking something like this:

 

CD33VFHR

[no link]

 

I could mount to the side of the 2x10's going around the 2nd floor deck. But I question the quality of this cam and also I was looking for something without IR so you would not see the LEDs.

 

I've used that particular camera, and I'd use something else... let me show you why.

 

Here is a daylight scene, from a VERY similar model camera to the one you linked (IIRC, mine is a 430TVL model). It doesn't look too bad, right?

 

 

Well... here it is at night... and imagine it without the IR that's spilling out from around that corner (that's another IR source). That's supposed to be a 100' IR camera, and it's barely making 40'. When it comes to useful IR distances, you can pretty much cut the advertised range in half.

 

[/img]

 

The IR beam from that camera is also pretty tight, so if you're thinking of simply mounting it closer in order to make the IR work better... don't. You can't really mount it closer to the object, or you get the "spotlight" effect, like so: (this is the same camera as the previous two pictures).

 

 

A whole lot of bloom in the center of the picture, and the rest of it is completely washed out.

 

If you're going to use IR, use separate illuminators, and plan to illuminate the entire area.

[zmxtech 0]

right on sawbones !

 

If you buy dome cams with IR cut filters and use separate IR illuminators

you will have a great system.

 

use IP cams and even better tho the price is x4 !

 

z

[dopalgangr 1]

my friend ,i can promise our box IR camera can achieve your request easily,e.g. one kind noted IR distance is 20M,but ,we test it ,it can see objects clearly over 35M in the darknight,it have high cost-effectivity.i will give you the screenshot if you call me later,have any problem, you can contact us through Underneath MSN and E-mails.

_______________________________________

 

I see your new here on the forums and have posted yourself in several threads referring your products. How's about some screen shots or video??

[Tailbone215 0]

hehe ,my friend,what do you need or request,if you have any questions about our products,you can e-mail to me or take msn messages to me ,i will give you the best advice

 

I think the issue here is your posting style can be confused with what spammers do. We all learn from each other and I would rather see what contributions you have to offer, other than spamming your products.

[dopalgangr 1]

hehe ,my friend,what do you need or request,if you have any questions about our products,you can e-mail to me or take msn messages to me ,i will give you the best advice

 

I think the issue here is your posting style can be confused with what spammers do. We all learn from each other and I would rather see what contributions you have to offer, other than spamming your products.

 

I concur in a positive note, I think China gets a bad rap alot and I would just like to see samples taken from the cameras if they are so great. To many people in this industry make claims with not substance to support them Providing visual proof helps out both the consumer and the seller.

[Soundy 1]

hehe ,my friend,what do you need or request,if you have any questions about our products,you can e-mail to me or take msn messages to me ,i will give you the best advice

 

I think the issue here is your posting style can be confused with what spammers do. We all learn from each other and I would rather see what contributions you have to offer, other than spamming your products.

anyway,my friend,Thanks for your remind,i will notice my action ,we think we will learn form each other in the future

 

You have to post more than just "MSN me!" for us to learn anything from you. Learning is supposed to be a two-way street here.

[Sawbones 0]

This is one of those situations where a picture is worth a thousand words... particularly for CCTV, where the picture is literally everything.

 

I'm sure China makes some good stuff... but without the pictures, you can't evaluate it against other products on the market.

[vtphilk 0]

right on sawbones !

 

If you buy dome cams with IR cut filters and use separate IR illuminators

you will have a great system.

 

use IP cams and even better tho the price is x4 !

 

z

 

Ok..enough of the advertiser . That is my plan I think after reading forums. I'm just having trouble finding a good IR cut camera that will look good in a residential application (Pool area). I was thinking about getting the 950nm or whatever the invisible spectrum illum's but just can't find a camera that will work.

 

I have both coax and Cat5 run to the locations so I can go IP or analog. Trying not to spend too much over $200-350 /camera. Under $1k for cameras (3-4).

[Sawbones 0]

Supercircuits has some day/night domes in the $250-300 range. I haven't used any of them (my experience is most with the Panasonic and Honeywell domes), but they might work for your application.

 

You may want to consider subtracting a camera and going heavier on the IR lighting in your budget. I've found that lack of illumination is more the limiting factor at night than number of cameras. If you don't have enough IR, all the cameras in the world won't help you.

[Sawbones 0]

Let me give another example to further illustrate the point that separate-IR-Illuminator=better.

 

This is a Honeywell day/night dome mounted with a separate illuminator (an Ebay special that happens to work pretty well).

 

 

The illuminator is mounted about three feet away from the dome itself (A Honeywell HD4x vandal-resistant dome), and runs off of the same 12V power supply. This provides IR illumination, and the bugs that are attracted to the IR aren't flying right into the lens of the camera. This has the benefit of not tripping your motion detection. Also, if your IR burns out, or you don't like the pattern/spread provided by that specific illuminator, you don't have to trash the camera... you simply replace the illuminator.

 

Here is what the view looks like through that setup:

 

 

 

Now compare that to the IR-integrated dome that is the subject of this thread... remember the "spotlight" effect?

 

 

No comparison... I know which view I'd rather have on my DVR. Adequate illumination that's even and not overly bright is very important when it comes to getting the most out of your day/night cameras. Integrated IR by itself is rarely adequate in my experience

[bigbrother2 0]

It is one thing to debate if the technology in camera A is better than the technology in Camera B, but when I deal with customers, it boils down to what will get the job done at the most reasonable cost.

 

For most applications, residential and small business customers have been very satisfied with the results they get from CCTV cameras with IR illumination. I have yet come across an application which required anything more substantial - I am sure those applications exists, but they may be a niche need.

 

Andy

[HeadsUp 0]

the cameras listed in the thread starter only have 0.03 - 0.05 lux minimum light levels during night use

 

I have tried them , dont waste your time

 

there are cameras , both Dome , Box and module board cams which go down to light levels of 0.00001 lux and 0.00004 lux

 

you dont even need an IR illuminator to get brilliant night vision in pitch black with no moonlight.

 

i wish i could post the model numbers here for you but i dont have 5 posts yet

Edited June 5, 2009 by Guest

[HeadsUp 0]

ps if you use IR illuminators , it is useful to mount them seperately from the camera because spiders like to spin webs in front of the IR heat source

 

by mounting IR and camera seperately , you dont end up with spider webs in front of your camera.

[AZRob 0]

I agree with Sawbones, you can cut the advertised IR illumination distance in half. It seems alot of vendors 'exaggerate' the distance that the IR illuminators will provide EFFECTIVE illumination.

[HeadsUp 0]

yes AZROB . many do exaggerate IR distance specifications , but of course it depends what kind of camera you use , and what the IR manufacturer used when making their tests.

 

dont expect good results in range if you are only using a camera with 0.5 lux or 1 lux minimum light level.

you might get only 5 metres of night vision.

 

use the same IR panel on a good quality day/night camera that has minimum light of 0.03 - 0.07 and you could have 15 metres night vision.

 

or a camera that is rated at 0.001 - 0.01 lux minimum and with the right lens to match you could be smiling with 35 metres of night time clarity as you watch an intruder stumble and bungle their way through the darkness.

 

 

next level up ... i have cameras that dont need IR at all due to light sensitivity compensation technology which can turn night into day , even on a pitch black night away from the city , with no moon , no starlight , no street lighting reflecting off the clouds from suburbs 5 miles away...

[Sawbones 0]

You theoretically could put up an IR-integrated dome, AND add additional illuminators to it.

 

Here is the picture with only the camera-integrated IR:

 

 

 

Here is the picture with two of the super-circuits puck illuminators.

 

 

They are soffit-mounted to the upper-right of the picture, just out of view. With the additional IR light, the picture improves.

 

More IR is clearly better in this instance. The downside is that bugs will still be attracted to the IR being emitted from the camera, and it will still draw the eye of anybody creeping around.