Mobotix discussion

[robert 0]

Watched all of the ipacademy youtube videos. Yes, Mobotix is good, but IMO there is a lot of bluff.

 

1. Decentralised system, so you don't need powerful PC/server which is costly. There is not much cost difference IMO between buying expensive cameras and cheap PC VS buying cheap cameras and expensive PC. Decentralised Mobotix approach might be cost effective only on big systems with many cameras. PC cost is moved to expensive camera itself.

2. You don't need PC with NVR. Imagine retail shop with 8 cameras and NAS for recording. How are you going to watch live or recorded footage? You still need PC for it.

3. Stand alone recording and self contained DVR on microSD card. Come on guys, how much 3mpix video you can record on 4GB card? Not a lot. Yes, you can buy 32GB card, but price All cost effectiveness goes down the drain.

4. Software is NOT free, its included in camera`s price and cameras are expensive.

5. Cant really understand idea of dual sensor camera where one is 3mpix and other 1.3mpix for night view. If you can see number plates with 3mpix, then you wont see them with 1.3mpix. So, whats the point of having second sensor if its useless?

 

I would like Mobotix installers comment on this. I might be wrong on my points

[tomcctv 187]

Watched all of the ipacademy youtube videos. Yes, Mobotix is good, but IMO there is a lot of bluff.

 

1. Decentralised system, so you don't need powerful PC/server which is costly. There is not much cost difference IMO between buying expensive cameras and cheap PC VS buying cheap cameras and expensive PC. Decentralised Mobotix approach might be cost effective only on big systems with many cameras. PC cost is moved to expensive camera itself.

2. You don't need PC with NVR. Imagine retail shop with 8 cameras and NAS for recording. How are you going to watch live or recorded footage? You still need PC for it.

3. Stand alone recording and self contained DVR on microSD card. Come on guys, how much 3mpix video you can record on 4GB card? Not a lot. Yes, you can buy 32GB card, but price All cost effectiveness goes down the drain.

4. Software is NOT free, its included in camera`s price and cameras are expensive.

5. Cant really understand idea of dual sensor camera where one is 3mpix and other 1.3mpix for night view. If you can see number plates with 3mpix, then you wont see them with 1.3mpix. So, whats the point of having second sensor if its useless?

 

I would like Mobotix installers comment on this. I might be wrong on my points

 

 

Hi Robert. you are wrong on all your comments. the youtube video only shows the camera (Q24) and not all it can do. as far as 3mp and 1.3mp the images are the same when the 1.3mp is b/w. i would go back onto the mobotix site and read about storage. you can store more on a mobotix than any other nvr/dvr. there is so much to learn about the mobotix

[thewireguys 3]

Take a Mobotix training course and you will understand.

[robert 0]

Tom,

 

I believe I might be wrong, thats why I want to find out Can you comment with some facts, numbers?

 

At day time with 3mpix you get for example 200pix/m, then at night with 1.3mpix sensor you would get lets say 100pix/m, which is not enough any more for some object recognition. Whats the point of having second smaller size sensor?

[robert 0]

Take a Mobotix training course and you will understand.

 

Manufacturers training courses are often full of marketing gurus who will wash your brain with overhyped statements abour their products talking bad things about other manufacturers. I dont need that

[robert 0]

Take a Mobotix training course and you will understand.

 

After taking Mobotix training course, do I become Certified Partner? Or to become Certified Partner there is some kind of special course for it ?

[tomcctv 187]

Take a Mobotix training course and you will understand.

 

After taking Mobotix training course, do I become Certified Partner? Or to become Certified Partner there is some kind of special course for it ?

 

 

you will need more than 1 training couse for that. call mobotix and go on a couse for the Q24 to start. and i bet you will come back on the forum giving people advice on mobotix. until you have used one you will never know. you have things like video/ sound both ways down 1 pair of phone lines or 1 Q24 will give you 4 ip cameras on a dvr/nvr (can you buy 4 good ip cameras for the cost of the Q24) no.

[robert 0]

How many courses there are to attend to become Certified Partner? How much each of them cost?

[Voipmodo 0]

I am not sure how much it costs in your country but the basic course is $600 here in the US and they usually have a promotion where you get a free Q24 for attending.

 

The prices and info for courses is on their site.

[robert 0]

But I would want to discuss all my points with those who got Mobotix experience. Telling "Go for course" makes me think that I was right about overhyped statements

[Voipmodo 0]

1.

 

The benefit is you can have the camera record directly to an internal card or directly to a network hard drive. once you start adding a few cameras to a traditional camera setup you not only need to deal with a fast computer to record multiple megapixel h.263 streams but have to have the bandwidth available to do so. If you have remote cameras via wireless or 3G this becomes an issue. In most cases you can use a companies existing IT infrastructure for the cameras, where for a standard h.264 based camera system you may have to have a dedicated network to prevent QOS issues. Price out a system to record 10-20 Megapixel IP cameras with h.263 and you will see the benefit

 

 

 

 

2. Actually you don';t need a PC, with the built in SIP functionality you could just use a low cost video IP phone(under $250) or Iphone to view the cameras. How many people sit and watch footage non stop in most installations unless its retail shrink protection or high risk areas.

 

3. If the internal sd card is not enough, then use a low cost NAS device or attach a usb memory stick or hard drive directly to the camera for more storage.

 

4. Software is free with no licenses. you can even add third party cameras to the system. Price out a M24 at market pricing and compare it to a standard 3 megapixel IP camera price and you can see how its pretty close in price. Factor in weather sealing and the advanced features then you start seeing the value.

 

 

5. Having 2 sensors falls inline with having no moving parts in the camera. Most cameras that have day color and night IR have a filter that gets moved in front of the lens. this can wear out or malfunction. The reason is Color megapixel sensors have really poor night performance. Adding a night sensor gives you a megapixel night sensor that performs great at night since its what its designed for. So two sensors gives you great day footage, good night footage in b/w and has the added benefit of a super rugged design that works in harsh conditions. How often would you want to climb a pole to replace a camera with a bad IR filter or heater (which Mobotix doesnt need) in -20 degree weather in a blizzard? or just have it work when it has too.

[robert 0]

Josh,

 

How many cameras at what resolution, framerate live view this PC would be able to handle?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/asus-eeebox-eb1501u-packs-ion-and-usb-3-0-need-we-say-more/

[amirm 0]

On recording to internal SD card, keep in mind that (NAND) flash memory in general hates writes. It is the slowest mode of operation and degrades the cells as you use it. Multi-level cells, the cheaper and higher density type, is much worse in this regard. And there will be serious card to card variations as far as how long they last as some have smarter logic than others to reallocate near failing cells.

 

So while SD card storage in camera is a very convenient mode of operation, unfortunately NAND flash memory is rather poorly matched to CCTV applications. Mobotix itself makes a strong point of this.

 

If it were me, I would make sure the recording is infrequent and triggered by image changing (mistakenly called motion sensing). Setting it to loop all the time means you will be changing cards every few months.

[Soundy 1]

2. Actually you don';t need a PC, with the built in SIP functionality you could just use a low cost video IP phone(under $250) or Iphone to view the cameras. How many people sit and watch footage non stop in most installations unless its retail shrink protection or high risk areas.

 

Plus, how many stores these days DON'T already have at least one PC? Throw the client software (or use the browser) on your paypoint or back-office system - no additional hardware needed.

 

5. Having 2 sensors falls inline with having no moving parts in the camera. Most cameras that have day color and night IR have a filter that gets moved in front of the lens. this can wear out or malfunction.

 

The lower-resolution "night" sensor also aids in low-light performance - as has been discussed here many times, the more pixels you put on a given chip size, the smaller those pixels get, and the lower their light-collecting ability. A 1.3MP sensor will give you better low-light capability than an otherwise-equivalent 3MP sensor.

[amirm 0]

Plus, how many stores these days DON'T already have at least one PC? Throw the client software (or use the browser) on your paypoint or back-office system - no additional hardware needed.

I think it can be argued that a NAS stays reliable longer and better than a PC, especially one that is shared for some other use (i.e. open to anyone installing anything they want including a media player which may install its own codecs, stomping on the ones you need for the DVR).

 

The lower-resolution "night" sensor also aids in low-light performance - as has been discussed here many times, the more pixels you put on a given chip size, the smaller those pixels get, and the lower their light-collecting ability. A 1.3MP sensor will give you better low-light capability than an otherwise-equivalent 3MP sensor.

He is not arguing that sensitivity is increased. He is saying that you either plan the resolution for color or black and white.

 

I think a better answer might be that you get to have more zooming ability during daytime. Whether that is useful or not, is rather subjective and depends on when the possible threats might be.

[cglaeser 0]

Whats the point of having second smaller size sensor?

 

For a given sensor size, fewer pixels means larger pixels. Larger pixels collect more photons, which means better low-light performance. You can see more detail in a properly exposed 1.3 mp image than a black underexposed 3 mp image.

 

In addition, Mobotix uses a color sensor for day and b/w sensor for night, which further enhances the low-light performance at night.

 

Best,

Christopher

[robert 0]

The lower-resolution "night" sensor also aids in low-light performance - as has been discussed here many times, the more pixels you put on a given chip size, the smaller those pixels get, and the lower their light-collecting ability. A 1.3MP sensor will give you better low-light capability than an otherwise-equivalent 3MP sensor.

 

Oh, my bad English skills I will try to explain once more what I meant. Lets say you calculated that you need 3mpix camera to see number plates of cars entering gates. When it switches to 1.3mpix at nigth, you wont have enough resolution to see number plates. Whats the point of that 1.3mpix if its no good? There should be two sensors, both 3mpix.

[cglaeser 0]

Oh, my bad English skills I will try to explain once more what I meant. Lets say you calculated that you need 3mpix camera to see number plates of cars entering gates. When it switches to 1.3mpix at nigth, you wont have enough resolution to see number plates. Whats the point of that 1.3mpix if its no good? There should be two sensors, both 3mpix.

 

There are other considerations for detail in addition to mp. A black underexposed image will never have sufficient detail, no matter how many mp. You also need to consider the low-light lux performance. More pixels do not come for free. Everything else equal, more pixels means smaller pixels, and smaller pixels means fewer photons are collected. Camera design has many trade-offs.

 

Best,

Christopher

[tomcctv 187]

The lower-resolution "night" sensor also aids in low-light performance - as has been discussed here many times, the more pixels you put on a given chip size, the smaller those pixels get, and the lower their light-collecting ability. A 1.3MP sensor will give you better low-light capability than an otherwise-equivalent 3MP sensor.

 

Oh, my bad English skills I will try to explain once more what I meant. Lets say you calculated that you need 3mpix camera to see number plates of cars entering gates. When it switches to 1.3mpix at nigth, you wont have enough resolution to see number plates. Whats the point of that 1.3mpix if its no good? There should be two sensors, both 3mpix.

 

 

1.3 is better than 3mp at night. and recording at 1.3 still has a very good res than any analog camera. meaning you can zoom in from footage. have a look at this live camera 3mp day 1.3 at night. this is a mobotix M12

http://www.mobotix.ro/ro/index.php?id=10055&lang=en&camid=1521

[robert 0]

Cant even read that small black cars number plate

[robert 0]

I sent an email to Mobotix days ago, still no reply. What a rubbish customer support/service... Another Arecont Vision

[tomcctv 187]

Cant even read that small black cars number plate

 

 

its not on the number plate. but zooming in from the camera it has no problem day or night. robert have you used ip cameras. dont forget the res on ip 1000 times better than analog . were are you based ???

[robert 0]

Cant even read that small black cars number plate

 

 

its not on the number plate. but zooming in from the camera it has no problem day or night. robert have you used ip cameras. dont forget the res on ip 1000 times better than analog . were are you based ???

 

London/Latvia

[thewireguys 3]

Cant even read that small black cars number plate

 

 

They are streaming at a lower resolution and recording at 3mp. No problem reading that plate at full res. Mobotix's support sucks but there product is very good. You need to order one of them and you will understand. Attend a class for $600 and get a Q24 and you will see the light. No problems with Areconts support very easy to get in contact with them.

[robert 0]

Attend a class for $600 and get a Q24 and you will see the light.

 

After taking Mobotix training course, do I become Certified Partner? Or to become Certified Partner there is some kind of special course for it ?