Horizontal Lines in Video

[baywatch 1]

Could be a power problem?

 

Sometimes you see these lines when a power unit is failing.

 

How many cameras are you powerering from the 1 power unit & how big is the power source?

 

Try powering just 1 camera to a monitor like Rory suggested.

[keefe007 0]

When terminating using F-conn is there anything to watch for before crimping?

[WildCard 0]

I did this install with Keefe007, and was onsite earlier attempting to troubleshoot this.

 

I disconnected each cam one by one. The pic quality seemed much worse when there was only 4 cams live. It appeared there was a picture of one cam overlaid onto another cam - but it was oddly sliding from left to right vs the usual horizontal lines scrolling up.

 

I then plugged in another spare cam, but instead of powering it into the main power supply, I used a power adapter. Pic is grainer than I think it should be, but it is only slightly grainy. Definately no horizontal lines or artifacts that I can notice.

 

So I am guessing that there is some form of noise/interference that is coming into the system via the power box. Either the box is defective, or more probably there is a bad crimp somewhere in the camera network.

 

Going to check out the signal using an external monitor. Will keep you posted.

 

-WC-

[WildCard 0]

How many cameras are you powerering from the 1 power unit & how big is the power source?

 

Try powering just 1 camera to a monitor like Rory suggested.

 

Powering 8 cams powered by a power supply that can manage 9 cams.

 

-WC-

[WildCard 0]

ground problems .. the correct way would just to use the BNC ...i used the fconnectors-BNC adaptors for a while in the beginning but was just too many issues of no video, grounding problems, etc.

 

We opted to use the fconnectors/bnc adapter combo due to the cost savings.

 

-WC-

[scottj 0]

cost savings? So in other words you saved about 3 bucks, and now you have to eliminate problems...hmmmmm Sounds like you get what you pay for here.

 

scottj

[rory 0]

I would have expected 2 connectors to cost more than 1, but maybe you meant you already had them? The reason I used them before was because we couldnt find any BNC connectors besides the adaptors at that time, without bringing them in, not i just bring them all in bunches.

[qman 0]

Hold on, first things first, you should have used RG59, not RG6, the F Connectors are also a bad idea. RG6 has too much brading that causes the camera, expecially if it's a cheap OEM one, to loose signal at the DVR. Another thing, is the RG6 Aluminum braided? it should be 95% copper braided, aluminum let's interferience come is like nothing.

Expecially on DVR'S, they are very very sensitive about this, and to make it worse, you used a GEO CRAP Card.

 

 

Another thing, the video lines, are they anywhere near electrical lines? or Flourencent lights? I have found that if they are less than a foot to them, interferience get's in.

 

Third, try using a regular power supply to power one camera, and see if it's ok, you might have a defective Power Box. Another thing, it does not matter if the power box is able to power 4, or 9, or 100 cameras for that matter, what matters is the AMP rating, so if the box it's only rated at 4 Apms, and the cameras pull more that that TOTAL, then you also have a problem. If using a good BOX, (ALTRONIX, P3,) then you are Ok, but if it's a cheap Taiwanesse, then you have to be more careful, as these don't usually have 4 amps like they claim, but maybe 3.1-3.8 amps, and they don't have a line conditioner also. Clean power to the cameras translate into better video and longer lasting equipment, which translated into less warranty calls.

 

One more thing, check to see that the VIDEO cable is not "nicked" somewhere, that will cause a problem too.

 

let us know how it works out.

[WildCard 0]

cost savings? So in other words you saved about 3 bucks, and now you have to eliminate problems...hmmmmm Sounds like you get what you pay for here.

 

scottj

 

Ouch, the truth does hurt. Looking back on it, I wish I had not done it this way.

 

I didn't do the buying for these items, but was told that the adapter combo was cheaper to buy than to buy bnc connectors outright. As illogical as it sounded, I was told it was the truth.

 

This isn't our first install, but it is our largest scale. We did a few things in this install that I assumed would be better, but apparently not. I am trying to fix things using research and all of your cumulative advice. I do thank you all for the info.

 

-WC-

[rory 0]

BNC Connectors are like 70 cents each.

[WildCard 0]

Hold on, first things first, you should have used RG59, not RG6, the F Connectors are also a bad idea. RG6 has too much brading that causes the camera, expecially if it's a cheap OEM one, to loose signal at the DVR. Another thing, is the RG6 Aluminum braided? it should be 95% copper braided, aluminum let's interferience come is like nothing.

Expecially on DVR'S, they are very very sensitive about this, and to make it worse, you used a GEO CRAP Card.

 

I was advised to use a RG6 siamese cable, which looked decent. It's quad shielded, which I was under the understanding that is great for this application. Given the power being siamese'd onto the cable, it's convenient for laying the cable.

 

F-connector combo, was a price & convenience call.

 

What cable & connector do you use? Mind me asking who the supplier is?

 

You don't use Geovision cards? Which do you use?

 

Another thing, the video lines, are they anywhere near electrical lines? or Flourencent lights? I have found that if they are less than a foot to them, interferience get's in.

 

We laid the cable away from the florescent lighting, but it's not to say there aren't power lines or something else interfering. I tried to lay the cable with ideal procedures in mind.

 

Third, try using a regular power supply to power one camera, and see if it's ok, you might have a defective Power Box. Another thing, it does not matter if the power box is able to power 4, or 9, or 100 cameras for that matter, what matters is the AMP rating, so if the box it's only rated at 4 Apms, and the cameras pull more that that TOTAL, then you also have a problem. If using a good BOX, (ALTRONIX, P3,) then you are Ok, but if it's a cheap Taiwanesse, then you have to be more careful, as these don't usually have 4 amps like they claim, but maybe 3.1-3.8 amps, and they don't have a line conditioner also. Clean power to the cameras translate into better video and longer lasting equipment, which translated into less warranty calls.

 

I used a simple camera power supply distribution supply. Chinese import of no brand name, 12vdc for 9 cameras. It says output is +12V 5A max.

 

What box do you use in these installs?

 

 

One more thing, check to see that the VIDEO cable is not "nicked" somewhere, that will cause a problem too.

 

let us know how it works out.

 

Video cable is fine, works bad only in Geovision cam windows.

 

-WC-

[rory 0]

Just make sure the cable is copper braided and solid copper center. RG59 is easiest to use and the most common in this form, also comes in Siamese cable with 18AWG power cable. Then just get some BNC twist ons, or crimp ons. Any distributor should carry a good grade cable and BNC. I have used Rg6 Aluminum Braid in the past where there was no other choice, and it worked but why take the chance.

 

As for the power supply, the cheap ones will work, though something like Altronix or P3, are generally better units. IF the client can afford it then its best to go with something like those.

 

If the video is good on a TV, and bad on the DVR, then you could have a bad card.

[scottj 0]

You don't use Geovision cards? Which do you use?

 

 

Herm is "slightly" biased when it comes to DVR boards and software, then again he deals that I-View stuff. Can't blame a guy for plugging his products.

 

scottj

[WildCard 0]

Just make sure the cable is copper braided and solid copper center. RG59 is easiest to use and the most common in this form, also comes in Siamese cable with 18AWG power cable. Then just get some BNC twist ons, or crimp ons. Any distributor should carry a good grade cable and BNC. I have used Rg6 Aluminum Braid in the past where there was no other choice, and it worked but why take the chance.

 

I've been using an RG6 quad shielded braided siamese cable, my supplier sells it to me for a little under $100 shipped for a spool of $500 feet.

 

As for the power supply, the cheap ones will work, though something like Altronix or P3, are generally better units. IF the client can afford it then its best to go with something like those.

 

What model Altronix or P3 power supply box do you use? I don't mind paying a little more for quality... My distributor only pointed me to the generic one I mentioned above.

 

If the video is good on a TV, and bad on the DVR, then you could have a bad card.

 

I was thinking the same thing - or maybe a mis-setting in the Geovision software. But I took a confirmed working cam, a nice Accudome and put it in the same environment using the same power, cabling, and ends. The quality camera worked beautifully. I tried it on two cables where the cams were previously receiving 'noise'. The accudome is a 1/3" 480 line Sony SuperHAD cam vs 1/4" CCD econ camera.

 

So, are cheap cameras vulnerable to noise more so than more expensive cameras? There is a Muzak amp within 3 feet of the DVR system, and a small UPS battery but other than that there aren't the usual things that would cause electrical interference.

 

-WC-

[rory 0]

I havent used the P3 yet but heard they are good. Altronix, I just basically get the fused power supplies.

 

Cheap domes just normally look like crap, bottom line. Their lighting ability is normally very bad so you can get alot of noise when it is dim, and when there is alot of light it could be too bright. One I had some good luck with though, on a somewhat cheap side, is the GE Value Line Color Dome. Its not exactly as cheap as the OEM domes, but it is still cheap compared to their other domes.

[rory 0]

Is that Musak Amp for audio? If so, audio will definatelty cause noise. I have a system in an audio store, so i went through some hell with that one!

[WildCard 0]

Cheap domes just normally look like crap, bottom line. Their lighting ability is normally very bad so you can get alot of noise when it is dim, and when there is alot of light it could be too bright. One I had some good luck with though, on a somewhat cheap side, is the GE Value Line Color Dome. Its not exactly as cheap as the OEM domes, but it is still cheap compared to their other domes.

 

Yes, I agree that the cheapos look like crap. My supplier said that this would be a great budget 1/4" dome, but I wish I had gone with the Accudomes that I have used in the past. Customer was looking for a budget solution, and it's given me just headaches.

 

-WC-

[WildCard 0]

All Broadcast quality and most CCTV cameras are correctly source terminated with 75 Ohms. However, some low-cost cameras on the market are not correctly source terminated and thus can cause a host of problems. These camera's omit the source termination and thus appear to be almost zero Ohm source impedance. Not only will these cameras cause ghosting reflections, but they will also prevent proper operation of various kinds of interfacing equipment such as Elevation-azimuth (pan and tilt) control and other systems that utilize the Vertical Interval of the video picture for control purposes. The camera's zero Ohm output impedance effectively shorts out these control signals.

 

Maybe this is the solution - would explain why my Accudome worked fine on two cables while the budget dome fails to work well in the same environment.

 

-WC-

[rory 0]

Yep .. i found a good cheap bullet that actually works and gives a good image. Beyond that the domes ive used, except the expensive brand names, just have looked bad. ..

[WildCard 0]

Yes, the performance difference between the cheap domes & the ones that are more expensive is huge.

 

-WC-

[baywatch 1]

We have had one or two situations where a very powerful ups has upset the computer monitor, moving the monitor just a few feet further away from the ups cured the problem.

These were always in local libraries where they had Internet access for the public & the IT was done by themselves.

We never bothered to investigate the problem further as it only happened in theses premises.

Can cause much head scratching tho, 1st time.

[WildCard 0]

Thanks BW:

 

The monitor is an LCD, not CRT so improbable that it would be interferring in the way you mention. I am more concerned about the muzak music amplifier 3 feet from cables & geovision system, might move that later or turn off the amp to see if there's any difference.

 

But given that the mroe expensive accudomes work in the same environment as the cheap domes don't, I am just not sure. Would like a solution that doesn't involve replacing all the cheap cams with accudomes, but we'll have to see.

 

-WC-