What's the difference between a bad camera and a good camera

[calvis 0]

 

I am new in this type of business but I am having a hard time figuring out what is the difference between a good camera and a bad camera. The prices vary so great. You have stuff made in the US and Canada that costs 5x more than overseas.

 

I am trying to find that fine line between cost and quality. Can anyone educate me?

 

calvis

[VST_Man 1]

the obvious answer is quality. money does not alway equal better, but, once you find a quality line of products you are assured that it is not cheap. if you want quality and don't want to waste time and money, paying for a professional install will;

- save you money in using professional services vice hit'n miss purchases.

- save you time you can apply elsewhere.

- worry free repairs, most covered under a warranty.

 

I'm a small business and I see lots of people trying to install professional CCTV equipment. Sooner or later they end up calling me because what they don't know and what they think they know creates a mess. And cleaning up someone elses's mess is always costlier.

 

My advice. either allow us to do it or read on, buy it yourself, and be prepared to suck it up later.

[mccrabr 0]

I agree with VST_Man that typically what you get with higher-priced systems is better quality and service.

 

Low-priced systems found at retailers are designed mainly with low cost in mind. They may have actually some very good feature sets, and it can be difficult to convince customers that what you're offering is worth $x more.

 

This could be a long discussion, but here are a few thoughts:

 

Professional products allow custom designed systems to suit the specific application.

 

You won't see interchangeable lenses on cheap retail systems. Lens quality and selection are a big deal in system design. Though the convenience store operator may put his cheap Exxis camera in his front window watching his gas pumps 'cause that's all he can afford, between the wide-angle lens that is standard with consumer systems and the poor resolution, he won't be reading any license plates.

 

Cheap systems won't last as long.

 

CMOS cameras use simpler, cheaper chips.

 

Look at the resolution numbers for cameras and monitors to see how sharp an image one system will produce vs. another.

 

Bryan

[rory 0]

you get very limited warranty and little to no support, in the way of manuals or detailed info, with the cheaper OEM products.

 

Once a company brands something with their name, then the price goes up, also generally you will find a better warranty, some actual support, and detailed manuals or info.

 

However some companies (too many of them) will just dump the product back out to the client with their name on the product but little to no support or warranty, and the price will stay very low.

 

With more well known brands, you will find the majority of their equipment will be high grade quality with decent chips, lenses, and programming, more time an effort is put into the end product, more testing is involved to make the end product up to par with their companies name. You will get a longer warranty and much more detailed manuals & info. With cameras you get features like dual voltage, reverse polarity, higher quality chips (for example there are various versions of a Sony Exview chip and the budget cameras will use the cheaper one).

 

There is definately a market for the cheaper products, DIY, Budget installs, etc, but if you want high quality you will need to spend some more dollars.

[jisaac 0]

well said

[Gesualdo 0]

[for example there are various versions of a Sony Exview chip and the budget cameras will use the cheaper one]

 

Now, How am I supposed to recognise the higher quality chipsets from the specs. I am presuming that the brand names will use the lower quality chipsets on their cheaper cameras to lower their costs as well.

Or am I wrong here?

[rory 0]

If you buy an exview camera that costs $80 then rest assured it is using the cheaper chip. The big brands typically will use the best chip for their cameras and why also their cameras cost well over $200. There is also alot more to a camera than just the chip, including power boards, and internal programming.

 

There are so many variations of SONY exview and SuperHAD chips its really impossible to go by those specs any more. Best way is to ask around and test it yourself. Most big brands have only 1 version of an Exview camera.

 

Simply, you get what you pay for when it comes to cameras.

[Gesualdo 0]

I thought so ... just trying to clearify and understand.

[MetzLyov 0]

Calvis, what is your application or the intend of use?

 

Rory did put a solid assessment.

 

Here are few questions for you to consider:

 

Do you care for a warranty of 3 years for a camera equipment?

 

Do you care that cameras perform exactly what their specs call for?

 

Do you want them to work right out of the box?

 

Do you want a help when you need it at the time of the installation?

 

How important is it for you to know that your warranty will be honored by the manufacturer without any questions?

 

If you can answer the above questions with "yes" answer, then you are looking for a quality and dependable equipment and that is not cheap to come by... However, if one of your answers is "No", then you are looking for some cheapo equipment from some unknown brand and as Rory said, "You get for what you pay for"!

 

Levon

[qman 0]

one thing to consider.

 

Maybe that you want to get good stuff, but just can't afford it. The best way to go about it is by just getting one camera at a time, but try and get the dvr first, so that you have the most expensive and most important thing out of the way.

[rory 0]

Ofcourse. I myself have some cheaper bullet cameras at my appt, cause thats all I can afford, they work though and look okay. There is not enough money in it for me to sell them down here, but I would suggest them to friends if that is all they can afford, Eclipse CCTV ECl-596 Color Bullet, and the Provideo CVC-320WP. Both have lasted through lots of bad weather and give a decent image. B/W for low light, the color one for lots of light. They are inexpensive so if they do go bad you can just chuck them and buy another, or move up to a more expensive camera. Like Herm said, at least get a decent DVR to start, or prepare your PC for one even if you start with a cheap card.

 

Main thing is get some good wiring to the camera locations, as you can change the cameras, but wire is not always as easy.

[davidlaska 0]

As VST-man mentioned, it is hit and miss. I have bought a few of these cheap (they were all made in china)camera,s and they work well in certain conditions.

The color cam I got worked only if used outside at high noon sunlight, the rest of the time it was to dark to see a image. The b/w camera I got would wash out with an all white image at certain times during the day, again useless. The IR models worked for a few feet at best. Non of this is in the specs. Overall they are bad enough where I don,t use these camera I purchased. Wasted a lot of money to.

[C7Installer 0]

I think a big problem is that unbiased reviews are seemingly few and far between for CCTV cameras. If I were looking for a camcorder or standard digital camera, I could find hundreds of reviews and sample images to base my decision on.

 

In the CCTV world, it seems that the only information you can get is the mfgr. spceifications which obviously tell you nothing. I can find simple dome cameras with the same specifications that range in price from $100 - $500+.

 

Does anyone know where someone could find such comparisons online? If not, wouldn't it be great if we could somehow create something here? For example: could someone show me an example of how much better a $500 camera is than a $100 camera? (Two images from two cameras, same position and lighting conditions...)

 

-C7

 

PS - On a side note: I respect and appreciate the fact that brand name cameras come with great warranties and support. However, if someone doesn't need the support or warranty, why can't they just buy a good quality camera at a good price? You'd think there would be at least one company out there... (If someone know's that company, please let us know!)

[rory 0]

You'd think, but all the cheap domes ive used just dont match up the more expensive ones, its more than just warranty issues, there are power boards, settings, quality lenses, chips, programming, housings, etc.

 

But ofcourse we pay for the brand name half the time, and ofcourse ive used some expensive ones that werent that great either.

[Jasper 0]

One of the most important things about buying a camera other than the quality, is it the right camera for the application? Here is just some of the general information I have picked up along the way. Color cameras are best suited for really well lit areas, inside or out. If you want to see a persons face when the sun is behind them you need back light compensation.

 

If you don’t want a camera to be overcome by light you need a camera with an auto iris. A method of reducing the amount of light coming into the camera, to prevent the camera from being overpowered by too much light. These are simple examples, as there is much more to learn to really understand the differences between cameras when reading a specification sheet. We all wish we could take them for a test spin first, I wish.

 

The point is, figure out the type of camera you need for the application, then go hunting for cameras looking for the characteristics of what you think you will need. I’m all for quality, but if you have the wrong type of camera for the application in won’t matter.

[davidlaska 0]

But of-course we pay for the brand name half the time, and ofcourse ive used some expensive ones that werent that great either.

 

I have found lately that brand names are no longer good indicator of decent electronics (I don,t know if this applies to camera's though). Maybe price is more of a indicator since what I purchased was a inexpensive good brand name item. I would say if the security system is important, one should pay a reputable expert to install and stand behind the system. That save money because the buying cheap stuff is based on a "hit and miss approach" which ends up costing more in the long run.

[Jasper 0]

Yep, if you buy a brand name you are bettering your chances of hitting than missing, trying those cheap cameras out can get real expensive. When you are reading specs on a camera, who are going to believe? The no name brand with nothing to lose, because they have no reputation anyway or a branded product that wants to keep their reputation by always trying to produce a better product then the “No namesâ€

[C7Installer 0]

I would have to agree with davidlaska. It's not very often that you can use brand names as an indicator of quality. One simple explanation for this is that many brands offer an assortment of product lines. Just because it says Sony on it, that doesn't mean that it's the best product that Sony can make.

 

Also, Sony doesn't seem to mind OEM's using their name to sell non-Sony products. How many products have we all seen that advertize "Sony CCD"? I think we've all found that this doesn't always make a good camera.

 

In regard to brand names having something to loose, I both agree and disagree. Whie I'm sure it's important to some brands to maintain a high quality image, others seem content with marginal products sitting alongside their better products. Specifications can be misleading at time, even if they are accurate. Example: Just because a camera can "see" something in low light, that doesn't mean it's a useable image.

 

What I would like to see are some real-world comparisons of thsese products and/or some genuine reviews. I completely agree with Jasper that experience is most important. The only trouble is finding someone with both experience AND the desire to share that experience.

 

-C7

[rory 0]

well would be nice to see comparisons for real. I actually posted alot of them over the past couple years, but i took most down due to bandwidth on my server ...

[SeanMort 0]

It's difficult for some of the reputable companies out there to compete with the Asian Machine, so if you can't beat 'em, join'em. Or at least part of the way, particularly at the entry level ranges. This is why these companies "badge engineer" products on OEM's. The entry level ranges account for more sales than other ranges (bread & butter sales), and if you have a competing product from Asia in this cost sector at a much better price what do you do ? Do a deal with one of the companies listed in A&S, put your badge on it (make sure it's a Sony chip) and you've got a product !! Some of them aren't bad though. I don't think any company out there worth their salt would knowingly put out any product that's dodgy, but you never know. Their sales manager (maybe being non-tech) may have done the OEM deal on a wink and nod, and their poor sales staff have to get the numbers at all costs (you know how it is). If many cams get returned they go looking elsewhere for another source. That's how it's done. As for comparisons, I agree that nothing replaces good experience and a good test. Spec sheets are great for quotes but I want to see the thing working. Would be useful to have a running "top twenty" for "badges" and "originals", or something like that.

[wetwire 0]

Thought I might try and give this post a revival. As I am to new to this forum, I have yet to go completely through all the posts. I have gone through a great deal of them. This one seems as good as any to post to, save starting a new one. So here goes.

 

The fact of the matter is I have had many problems with various camera makes and manufactures in the average install. I will try to sum up here my own experience quickly. The list below is from most to least common and problematic.

 

1) Camera MTBF or to say the lifespan. - I would have never thought failure rates would have been so high, so fast. With everything installed and tested in the most professional way I can muster, this seems to be an issue. Just exactly how long should a camera really last. Certainly beyond 50% of its rated MTBF? On an average 12-16 camera install I have seen a trend that would indicate a failure rate of 30%-40% and a lifespan of 1-3 years. Is this normal?

 

2) Camera quality - Name brands such Provideo, Panasonic, GE, Pelco, ETC. I simply do not have the capital in my small company to purchase "samples" of them. And, using a customer as a guinea pig is...well draw your own conclusions. (my thought is, that its not a great idea) So this begs the question. Where can I get said information. This forum seems to have the potential. I would post pics of different model cams here.

 

3) Troubleshooting - "What the heck happened now?" "I just lost another camera at a location." Troubleshooting has become a tiresome affair for me. The real problem is that I love to troubleshoot things, and feel as though I have an inherent gift for it. BUT, when there is no real answer to be found and the problem inadvertently gets fixed somehow, I remain clueless as to the solution and completly unsatisfied with myself.

 

These are just a few of the problems I face. I doubt I am the only one. So here is an idea I would like to propose. A more formal guide section done on some topics. I would like to offer my own experience and create some but, I would like to do so only if I thought it would be helpful to the community and a cumulative effort.

 

If this is already being done elsewhere and I have not stumbled accross it yet or is in the "dealers" section please feel free to remove or alter this post if you like. I hope this might encourage some of you to reply.

 

Thank you for reading this.

 

Wet