Building a new house and want to wire for CCTV...

[steveko23 0]

I'm in the process of building a new home and I'm not 100% sure I'm ready to get all my CCTV needs, but I'd like them to prewire the house so I'm ready to go in the future and just need to add the equipment (camera, dvr, anything else?) when I'm ready. I pretty much know the location I would put the cameras currently so I figured I could put in whatever I needed now. Does that seem reasonable? So basically my question is what wiring do I need? I was reading and it seems like if I had rg59-siamese wired to all the locations from a central hub location that would do the trick. Does that seem right? Or should/can I just wire cat-5e/cat-6 and use PoE cameras? When I buy my camera's do I need to look for something specific to verify that cable would work correctly with them?

 

Here is what my home AV guy wants to install and charge, I'm skeptical of this guy in general so I was wary of this system from him:

Camera System (Speco Brand)

* UL Listed RG6 coax w/ 18/ 2 power wire.w/cat5e 85.00 85.00T

* Speco--SPCD4WRS500---4 Ch Wall Mount H.264 DVR 500GB HDD 569.99 569.99

* Speco bullet camera--VL62---Color Extreme Weatherproof Camera w/Built-In IR LEDs and Sunshield 139.99 139.99

* Installation of Equipment 200.00 200.00T

 

Thanks!

Steve

[tomcctv 187]

hi.

 

Here is what my home AV guy wants to install and charge, I'm skeptical of this guy in general so I was wary of this system from him:

Camera System (Speco Brand)

can I just wire cat-5e/cat-6 and use PoE cameras?

 

 

 

you are talking of two types of systems your AV guy is quoting analog and if you are using POE then you would be looking at IP system.

 

but as far a cables i would run cat5 (which can be used for both types of systems) and while you are at this stage in your house building run cat5 everywhere (you will wish you had) not just for cctv but also home automation. (its the furure )

 

how many cameras are you looking at installing and what is your budget.

[steveko23 0]

Yeah I realized after my post I was talking about 2 types of systems. My guy quoted analog and I had mainly been researching those then I started reading about IP camera's and those seemed more the way to go so I edited my post and added the bit about the cat5e. So, question about that...if I did just use the IP camera's all I need is a cat-5 line going to the location I want the camera and that's it? And I can just plug the camera in and it works? And if I went that route could I just install the camera to that line and add no other additional equipment and view the live feed from my pc or iphone? I was reading some other site and that seemed like the case, just wanted to check.

 

As for budget...not really sure. I was thinking of 4 cameras and would like the high resolution kind. These are more for keeping an eye on my kids than for security reasons. I think I'd like 3 outside (I have a fairly large backyard which was 1 reason I thought a high resolution camera best), and probably just one other in the basement. What kind of budget do you think I need for that? Assuming I can just get the 4 cameras and don't need a dvr or any other equipment to get it working. Live viewing is all I care about.

 

I am running cat-5 around the house...I have a jack in each bedroom and a couple around main tv areas. Not really sure what else I'd need for home automation I just started looking at that as well.

 

Thanks!

[tomcctv 187]

hi there is not much between ip and analog now. with a realistic budget.

 

for a 4 way system i would look at hybrid. http://surveillance.aver.com/model/embedded-hybrid-DVR-EH1004H-4-Nano

 

 

then you have the option of both analog and MP-IP.

 

no licence costs to run ip. full monitoring from anything

[steveko23 0]

I'm still kinda confused by how the IP PoE camera's get their power? And are all IP camera's PoE? From what I read it seems like you just plug them into a cat5 cable I have prewired in my house and it just works. Is it really that simple?

 

Thanks

Steve

[SEANHAWG 1]

I'm still kinda confused by how the IP PoE camera's get their power?

 

Through a POE switch. Basically think of a POE switch as a Power Supply and Switch all in one. Its the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

And are all IP camera's PoE?

No, You have to get POE capable cameras.

[Soundy 1]

The thing with running Cat5 or Cat6 is, it can be used for analog OR IP cameras. You could start with a hybrid recorder and all analog cameras, and just replace them with IP cameras as the budget allows.

 

I'm still kinda confused by how the IP PoE camera's get their power? And are all IP camera's PoE? From what I read it seems like you just plug them into a cat5 cable I have prewired in my house and it just works. Is it really that simple?

Pretty much... the only other thing you need is a PoE-capable switch... and you need a switch anyway, for all your network stuff to plug into; PoE is just an added feature (and added cost, but then that's off-setting the cost of a separate camera power supply).

 

PoE stands for Power over Ethernet, and it's a standard (IEEE-802.3af, if you want to look it up) that defines how to run power and ethernet over the same cable. ALMOST all (probably 99.9%) IP cameras support it, as well as numerous other IP devices like wireless access points, VoIP phones, etc.

[Soundy 1]

Here is what my home AV guy wants to install and charge, I'm skeptical of this guy in general so I was wary of this system from him:

Camera System (Speco Brand)

* UL Listed RG6 coax w/ 18/ 2 power wire.w/cat5e 85.00 85.00T

$85 for what? For how much? Ten feet, 50, 500?

 

* Speco--SPCD4WRS500---4 Ch Wall Mount H.264 DVR 500GB HDD 569.99 569.99

WAY over-priced - you can get a similarly-spec'd Dahua for under $350

 

* Speco bullet camera--VL62---Color Extreme Weatherproof Camera w/Built-In IR LEDs and Sunshield 139.99 139.99

Total crap. Specs on it are terrible. This camera blows it out of the water and can be found for $165.

 

* Installation of Equipment 200.00 200.00T

So he's basically doing the job for minimum wage and making all his money on equipment markup? Or plans to just string the wires by stapling them along the walls?

[Soundy 1]

I am running cat-5 around the house...I have a jack in each bedroom and a couple around main tv areas. Not really sure what else I'd need for home automation I just started looking at that as well.

Suggestion: anywhere you think you want to pull a cable to... pull four. Cat5e is relatively cheap, especially in bulk (retail around here is about 35c/ft, or <$100 for a 1000' box, which is <10c/ft)... get it in place while it's easy, and you save a bundle on what it would cost (not to mention the headache) to add more later. Keep in mind that with the proper adapters/extenders/baluns, you can run VGA, HDMI, KVM (keyboard/video/mouse), USB, CATV (cable TV), analog phone, audio, component video, remote control, or just about any other type of signal you want, over UTP, as well as network. Drop four runs into a corner and you can have your cable, your phone, and two network jacks, if you want... most manufacturers of the wall jacks even have multiple colors available, so you can color-code things: red for phone, blue for network, yellow for cable, perhaps.

 

[steveko23 0]

Thanks for all the reply! I like this forum.

 

So it looks like I need to tell my home builder I need a PoE switch. I'm not sure if I was getting one be default for all my network lines, but I'll make sure the switch I get is capable of it. Come to think of it I have no idea where all the cable lines plug into in the basement. I have this listed on my quote "Enclosure to house all phone and cable runs located in the basement" and I assume that is that. Would I plug my PoE switch into that and all my PoE cameras into that switch?

 

Whats a reasonable price I should expect to pay for a mega-pixel IP PoE camera?

 

As for monitoring these IP camera's once they are hooked up to my network what the process involved for that? It seems like each camera get's an ip and then with some software I can find that ip on my network to see the video? I'm guessing there is something somewhere I can read about this, but it seems like most everyone has a dvr and that's not something I really need.

 

Thanks again!!!

[Soundy 1]

So it looks like I need to tell my home builder I need a PoE switch.

Is this the same guy that quoted you $135 each for $20 cameras?

 

I'm not sure if I was getting one be default for all my network lines, but I'll make sure the switch I get is capable of it. Come to think of it I have no idea where all the cable lines plug into in the basement. I have this listed on my quote "Enclosure to house all phone and cable runs located in the basement" and I assume that is that. Would I plug my PoE switch into that and all my PoE cameras into that switch?

I'd ask the builder to just terminate all the runs into a patch bay, like this:

 

Then you can provide your own switch or switches. Consider that if you prewire with lots of Cat5e, as I suggested above, not all of those are going to be network runs. Terminating into a patchbay then allows you to easy assign whatever runs you want to whatever purpose at any time. It also simplifies keeping track of connections - for example, you could label the first four spaces as "K1", "K2", "K3" and "K4" for four kitchen drops, and so on (make sure to have matching markings on the wall plates at the other end). Then, say, you add a "Smart TV" to your living room and want to plug it in - you just plug it into the nearby jack "L3" (for example), then at the other end, you just find "L3" and connect that to your switch. If you've color-coded the jacks at the other end, you can even use color-coded patch cables to match (as in the picture).

 

You could also potentially control costs by having separate PoE switch for any PoE devices... so for example, instead of paying for a 24-port PoE switch, you could have a cheaper 16-port standard switch for most things and an 8-port PoE switch for cameras or anything else that uses it.

 

As for monitoring these IP camera's once they are hooked up to my network what the process involved for that? It seems like each camera get's an ip and then with some software I can find that ip on my network to see the video?

That's generally the case. If you have a router with a DHCP server (most do), many cameras will get an IP automatically from that, so you just need their utility software to find it.

[camera-newbie 0]

A few more suggestions as someone who remodeled our entire house (or 95% of it) 5 years ago.. Consider where you want all of your telephone wires, ethernet & video connections to terminate for ALL rooms in the house and setup some dedicated space to house the relevant equipment for handling those connections. I did a ton of research on that stuff at the time and knew I was going to be running my own low-voltage wiring for everything from RG6 to CAT5e for both ethernet drops & home-run phone drops (I don't daisy chain phone wiring). I installed two 36" wall mounted (surface mounted in my case) enclosures to hold the patch blocks, termination blocks and whatnot needed. There are a ton of companies that make these enclosures -- Lutron, Channel Master, Open House to name a few. I'm using the OpenHouse brand and have had no issues with them. Please note that most of them do not allow you to mix-n-match brands as their hole layouts in the enclosures are likely different. Do a google search on "structured wiring enclosure" and you'll see what's out there..

 

I've since had to re-do part of my wiring layout twice to accommodate added growth for more TV handling (I use SageTV now owned by Google with external HD HomeRun tuners among other things) than I originally designed for and the last work I did was within the past 3 weeks to accommodate our new CCTV cameras which needed more power outlets, room for 24VAC power supply for the analog cameras and room for my Avigilon 4 channel encoder to encode my analog cameras into something a computer can use (H.264 streams).

 

In my case, for our ~2700SF house, I've got wall space taking up approx. ~6' of garage wall making the space perhaps ~50SF of space needed for all of the equipment -- I've got routers, WAPS, switches,etc..

 

I even mounted a few 1x16 pine boards I had sitting around to the wall to screw things into that did not fit into my 36" enclosures.. Also, heed Matt's advise on running extra cables -- I ran 5 RG6 cables to EVERYWHERE I thought I might want to put a TV someday -- two outlets in every room with home-runs back to the garage. I did the same for Ethernet + phone (not 5 runs but 2 per outlet) with different color CAT5e -- blue for Ethernet, white for phone. All of this is run through the attic which now looks like the wiring in the local IT shop

 

Running CAT5 is super simple when the walls are completely open.. I think I ran through about 2000' of CAT5 and several boxes of RG6 before I was done -- interestingly enough, in our area of Los Angeles, none of the inspectors gave any care about the low-voltage stuff I was wiring up -- just didn't care.. Anyway, the work was simple but time consuming -- I figured I probably saved myself more than $5k in doing the work myself although I did not get any bids since I knew exactly what I wanted.

 

In hind sight, had I known in advance I was going to install cameras down the line I would have installed boxes in the relevant places on the exterior walls that could be covered for now until needed with home-run wiring to the 'IT closet'. Hope this makes sense and sorry for the long post..

[ak357 0]

I've since had to re-do part of my wiring layout twice to accommodate added growth for more TV handling (I use SageTV now owned by Google with external HD HomeRun tuners among other things) than I originally designed for and the last work I did was within the past 3 weeks to accommodate our new CCTV cameras which needed more power outlets, room for 24VAC power supply for the analog cameras and room for my Avigilon 4 channel encoder to encode my analog cameras into something a computer can use (H.264 streams).

 

 

Is Sage TV back to life ?

I would love to talk to you about

Used to use Sage for few years before google bought them

[steveko23 0]

Also, heed Matt's advise on running extra cables -- I ran 5 RG6 cables to EVERYWHERE I thought I might want to put a TV someday -- two outlets in every room with home-runs back to the garage. I did the same for Ethernet + phone (not 5 runs but 2 per outlet) with different color CAT5e -- blue for Ethernet, white for phone. All of this is run through the attic which now looks like the wiring in the local IT shop

 

 

What do you do with 5 RG6 lines? I am trying to add as much wire as I think I may need in the future, but I'm also trying to not break the bank is doing so. I wish I had the time to devote to wiring up the house myself, unfortunately I need the contractors to do that for me. But I do think I added a fair amount of cat5 drops both inside and outside. Not too many rg6 though...which has me wondering what I might be missing out on.

[Soundy 1]

Five to EACH LOCATION, I'm guessing that would be one composite, one RF (CATV), and one component (three cables required). Again, all those signal types can be carried on UTP.

[camera-newbie 0]

At the time I was wiring for DirectTV setups which used a pair of RG6 cables for each receiver (we had a dual-LNB dish) -- one for each of the double-tuners. Once you figure in some redundant wires in the off chance a rodent does you in or you pierce a cable with a nail or something, I just figured 5 seemed like a good number.. No particular scientific reason beyond my judgment call.. Now, I would NOT put more than 5 in a single double-gang opening -- five was a PAIN to manage by itself! Those RG6 wires do not like to bend much but are there should there be a need! Unfortunately the one room that we did not destroy, the kitchen, is the place that I'd love to have more wire in -- there's currently ONE lone ethernet drop for a printer, NO RG6 and one phone cable.. It's lacking what the rest of the house is loaded with.. Oh well.. Can't do much about it without ripping out drywall since it'd be a MAJOR PITA to do since the walls are external walls meaning low-roof lines,etc.. I'll be posting some pics RSN on here so you can see my work-in-progress..

 

AK - I'll PM you about Sage..

 

P.S. I should note that since we ditched DirecTV about 6 months ago, we no longer use any of these RG6's running to the various rooms.. Everything is being streamed over gigabit ethernet.. care of our SageTV system. I

[adam316 0]

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[Soundy 1]

I've seen a few CCTV installs done by locksmiths... they were complete messes.