Forum SUCCESS! – Dahua bridged system works!

[RickyGee 0]

First, thanks to all who guided me (a virgin) in my design for an IP camera system for my friend (see “more than 4 cameras on Dahua NVR” for description). The system ended up with 11 cameras and 3 NVRs in 3 zones connected by wireless bridges using Engenious ENH202. The first zone is his store/restaurant with cameras inside and outside, the second zone is a remote parking area and the third zone is his office separate from the other zones.

 

I had many issues getting everything to work well together, but thanks to all the help, I came up with solutions for every problem and the system is up and running and it’s REALLY COOL! Everything is recording at 1.2-2MP and 30fps continuous and VBR with highest quality setting and 8.2Mbps, only an occasional frame drop. Total equipment cost for EVERYTHING was $6k.

 

I wanted to post this because I accidently discovered something amazing and I wanted to share it with the forum; Buellwinkle you’ll love this. After a suggestion from Buellwinkle and a bunch of research, I selected the Engenious ENH202 800mw bridge devices but was warned that I needed “line-of-sight; even a tree branch will disrupt the bridge”.

 

So I was VERY careful to locate the ENH202s where I would have direct line-of-sight; one on the back side of the restaurant and the other on the outside wall of the office. Everything worked great…then the HVAC guys showed up and added a unit and a duct right in front of the antenna, with foil facing just inches from the ENH202!!!

 

I thought it might have burned out the unit with that much energy reflecting back into the unit…so I logged onto the system from my laptop to check the damage and…IT STILL WORKED!!!! Right through the friggin foil faced duct!

 

So, hat’s off to Engenious. I can definitely recommend the units for anyone needing remote access to their camera(s). But be advised that they are layer 2.5 devices by default and must be set up for transparent layer 2 only (WDS Bridge, both xmtr and rcvr). IP cameras and VOIP won’t work over normal client bridge setup. Engenious has a technical paper on the subject that explains why, but setting up the units as WDS Bridge (with MAC tables) works.

 

I did move the antenna to the other side of the new duct. Now my buddy is talking about expanding the system to several other remote areas. He’s gonna owe me a lot of steak dinners…. -Rick

[lowpro 0]

Nice Job. I would tidy up that blue ethernet cable though.

[buellwinkle 0]

Did you get a signal drop with that A/C duct in the way? Can't you just relocate it past that? The issue is you may get a connection, but the price may be much slower link.

[bigglebowski 0]

What are the radios hanging on? Looks like towel bars or some kind of handicapped railing.

 

Good job.

[vector18 1]

Everything is recording at 1.2-2MP and 30fps continuous and VBR with highest quality setting and 8.2Mbps,

 

How many cameras on each NVR? Do you mean 8.2kbps for the bit stream? The Dahua 3216 NVR maxes out at 32000kbps

with the bit rate, so if you had more than 4 cameras on one NVR, you shouldn't have been able to set them at 8.2. Are you running PSS on a server or just recording onto each NVR? Otherwise, congrats on your wireless bridge.

[RickyGee 0]

Yeah, I did move the antenna to the other side of the new duct. The sloppy wire was from the HVAC guys moving it, not my work. I didn't check how much signal loss occured from the duct. I was simply amazed that it worked at all with the foil faced duct completely blocking the view!

 

The antenna mounts are Moen Stainless Steel 18" grab bars; cheap, strong and permanent.

 

8.2mbps. I'm using 4 channel Dahua NVRs networked together with POE switches and 2TB HDs which gives about 4 days of continuous recording. Another neat feature of the Dahua NVR that is not in the manual is that if you record continuously, but also set up MD, you get markers on the tracks when the camera senses motion which can help in finding "interesting" records.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Guest

[RickyGee 0]

Everything is recording at 1.2-2MP and 30fps continuous and VBR with highest quality setting and 8.2Mbps,

 

How many cameras on each NVR? Do you mean 8.2kbps for the bit stream? The Dahua 3216 NVR maxes out at 32000kbps

with the bit rate, so if you had more than 4 cameras on one NVR, you shouldn't have been able to set them at 8.2. Are you running PSS on a server or just recording onto each NVR? Otherwise, congrats on your wireless bridge.

I'm using 3204s with 4 on two of them and 3 on the other. Using just the network jack and POE switches, they are all networked together and I can use the Webservice tool provided by Dahua to access each camera and NVR individually for adjustment. I'm using Dahua PSS on the office desktop, my laptop and an additional old XP laptop for normal access and use. By setting up the second stream from every camera to D1 and 5fps, I can load thumbnails for all 11 cameras using the second stream. When you double click on the thumbnail, it expands to single view, 2MP 30fps. Doubleclicking again will return to low res thumbnail. Neat feature which saved this project. The NVR3204 also maxes out at 32Mbps. Recording on the 2TB HD in each 4 channel NVR only, with 2TB NAS for backup in the office. The PSS makes it all seamless.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Guest

[RickyGee 0]

Did you get a signal drop with that A/C duct in the way? Can't you just relocate it past that? The issue is you may get a connection, but the price may be much slower link.

Probably a HUGE one, but it still worked! I logged in from my laptop through the Buffalo Airstation in the office and could watch all 11 cameras in real time, and view any single camera from the restaurant in 2MP 30fps. I did move the antenna to the other side of the duct after the HVAC guy finished so that he wouldn't mess up my wiring job again...

[RickyGee 0]

Here's a pic from the parking area with the other bridge antenna.

[shockwave199 0]

Another neat feature of the Dahua NVR that is not in the manual is that if you record continuously, but also set up MD, you get markers on the tracks when the camera senses motion which can help in finding "interesting" records.

You have to be careful with that one though because it can break up recordings and make critical seconds of an incident lost. Motion files break up continuous files on playback and even though it's mostly seamless, it can lose a second or two and that can make all the difference in a critical situation. With the dahua I installed for a daycare center, I have found that continuous/motion scheduling is best set for off hours when no one could easily pinpoint the time when something wrong happened. That makes it easy to find specific events the next day if needed. And even then, it's best to support that camera with another one just set to continuous, for full file continuity. But any time people are around to be able to report an approximate time an incident occurred, such as during normal business hours, it's best to keep motion detection out of the equation and just stick with continuous recording. It not only helps for complete and easy continuity for the file backup for authorities, but it can help prevent a precious second or two lost between continuous and motion file continuity. That's something I thankfully learned not from anything critical, but just by observing playback behavior. Food for thought when setting those schedules.

[RickyGee 0]

Another neat feature of the Dahua NVR that is not in the manual is that if you record continuously, but also set up MD, you get markers on the tracks when the camera senses motion which can help in finding "interesting" records.

You have to be careful with that one though because it can break up recordings and make critical seconds of an incident lost. Motion files break up continuous files on playback and even though it's mostly seamless, it can lose a second or two and that can make all the difference in a critical situation. With the dahua I installed for a daycare center, I have found that continuous/motion scheduling is best set for off hours when no one could easily pinpoint the time when something wrong happened. That makes it easy to find specific events the next day if needed. And even then, it's best to support that camera with another one just set to continuous, for full file continuity. But any time people are around to be able to report an approximate time an incident occurred, such as during normal business hours, it's best to keep motion detection out of the equation and just stick with continuous recording. It not only helps for complete and easy continuity for the file backup for authorities, but it can help prevent a precious second or two lost between continuous and motion file continuity. That's something I thankfully learned not from anything critical, but just by observing playback behavior. Food for thought when setting those schedules.

Thanks. I'll need to play more with the recordings. Since I have the NVRs set to record all cameras 7x24x365 continuous, I didn't see any anomalies in the recorded video as it transitioned from a section with no "motion" to a section where the MD was triggered and the track changed color (continuous is green and MD is orange). The only change I could detect was the actual pixel changes in the image and the color of the track; the recording was continuous and smooth otherwise, even when it transitioned back to just continuous as reflected by the color of the track. But I honestly only played with that setting for an hour or so, so thanks again for the tip and I'll go back and make sure the MD settings are not interferring with the continuous record.

[dexterash 0]

As a little info:

 

If recordings are set to normal record, schedule based and the motion detection is activated, the devices will record 24x7 and also will make a separate log with motion detection, thus not affecting all-day records.

But for this case, you have to disable all motion-based recording and just leave the motion-based detection (so logs can be made).

 

Also, depending on the firmware version on your NVRs, you can do a "smart search&playback"(motion based) by just selecting an area of interest on the general (as in all-day, continuous) recording.

 

P.S. Be advised that newer devices support different settings for encoding during motion, general or alarm stream.

[RickyGee 0]

As a little info:

 

If recordings are set to normal record, schedule based and the motion detection is activated, the devices will record 24x7 and also will make a separate log with motion detection, thus not affecting all-day records.

But for this case, you have to disable all motion-based recording and just leave the motion-based detection (so logs can be made).

 

Also, depending on the firmware version on your NVRs, you can do a "smart search&playback"(motion based) by just selecting an area of interest on the general (as in all-day, continuous) recording.

 

P.S. Be advised that newer devices support different settings for encoding during motion, general or alarm stream.

Thanks, Dex. From your comment, it looks like I have the cameras set for normal recording with motion detection activated. I'm honestly not sure if I did that directly in the camera (Webservice) or through the NVR firmware or perhaps a combination of both, since I played with both extensively. But I know I didn't set it up through the PSS since it was already working like I wanted once I got the PSS installed and accessed the NVRs over the net. We don't have a monitor connected directly to the NVR in the final installation configuration.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Satellite dish arms look better, more adjustable and don't look like they belong in your bathroom.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Guest

[ssmith10pn 0]

I'm amazed at why people think they need 30fps on fixed cameras. Total waste! 15 or 7.5fps will do just fine!

[RickyGee 0]

Satellite dish arms look better, more adjustable and don't look like they belong in your bathroom.

Certainly an option for some applications. I chose the Moen 18" Stainless Steel bars because they will never rust, can't be bumped out of alignment, came with SS hardware and only cost $20 incl shipping. I also thought they made a clean appearing installation. 12" would work as well and might be even cheaper. Neither would work on an angled mount like a roof but I only have wall mount locations.

 

So how about if I told you they were Industrial antenna mounts, built to commercial standards to withstand F5 tornadoes and Cat5 hurricanes and winds in excess of 300mph, made of solid Stainless Steel, will never rust, corrode or need paint, will last forever and come with a lifetime guarantee, and I paid $200 apiece for them? Still look like a bathroom?

Edited May 31, 2013 by Guest

[RickyGee 0]

I'm amazed at why people think they need 30fps on fixed cameras. Total waste! 15 or 7.5fps will do just fine!

Reminds me of the sign "Slow children playing"...I suppose if you are only capturing slow children 15fps or 7.5 is fine. Seriously, we are experimenting with 15fps on a couple of the cameras to see if it will be acceptable and we can gain some recording time. 30fps simply gives more images from which to capture a face, or see what someone is doing with their hands. If the equipment will do it, why not?

[MaxIcon 0]

The main drawbacks of high frame rates, which may or may not apply to your situation:

 

- More HD usage/less recorded time

- Higher bandwidth usage or lower image quality if fixed bandwidth is used

- Higher CPU usage if a PC based system is used

- Some dedicated NVRs won't support full frame rate on all channels

 

Some of these may not matter, depending on your setup.

[dexterash 0]

Or you could setup the motion encode part to 30fps and leave the general encode part to 5-10 fps.

[RickyGee 0]

The main drawbacks of high frame rates, which may or may not apply to your situation:

 

- More HD usage/less recorded time

- Higher bandwidth usage or lower image quality if fixed bandwidth is used

- Higher CPU usage if a PC based system is used

- Some dedicated NVRs won't support full frame rate on all channels

 

Some of these may not matter, depending on your setup.

 

All excellent points and true. Every one of them had to have a solution in our design. I used multiple 3204 NVRs so that I could record all cameras at 2MP resolution and 30fps and 8.2Mbps. The NVRs have single 2TB drives that provide about 4 days recording and the spec called for 3 days so that was met. The CPU usage on the remote computer running PSS was the killer and almost killed the project until I discovered that I could load second stream thumbnails at D1 and 5fps into the multipanel view and then doubleclick an image to change to single panel HD and 30fps, and back. Just 2 camera images displaying at 1080p and 30fps saturated the CPU on both laptops and nearly so on the desktop. That feature saved this project. We can display and watch all 11 cameras at once and only use 50% CPU on some pretty wimpy PCs, until the need arises to focus on one image and blow it up.

 

So, the equipment I chose is recording all cameras in HD and 30fps, highest quality setting with only an occasional frame drop, and that's acceptable. But one limitation we had to accept is that we can play back only one HD track at a time on the PCs due to the CPU limitation; 2 tracks really bogs the desktop down and the laptops gag on the load. Remember, we are accessing the system via the camera net and not direct connection to the NVRs.

 

For anyone designing an IP camera system, your points are vital to consider. Fast action needs high frame rates, even if the cameras don't move. The game changed a year ago and now we have the DISH Hopper, the DirectTV Genie and inexpensive NVRs that will record multiple HD programs simultaneously and you can play them back on your 60" HDTV.

 

Or you could just record your favorite shows on your VCR and play back the tape on your 13" crt TV. They're the same shows, right?..... Who needs 30fps? Jurys do. They've all got HDTV at home...

[shockwave199 0]

Or you could setup the motion encode part to 30fps and leave the general encode part to 5-10 fps.

I've yet to see this feature work on my dahua NVR with built in POE. It follows main stream settings only and does not change with motion detection. Not sure if it's an nvr problem or the cameras problem. Using all dahua 2mp mini domes and one 2mp auto focus dome with audio.

 

I discovered that I could load second stream thumbnails at D1 and 5fps into the multipanel view and then doubleclick an image to change to single panel HD and 30fps, and back.

I see this can be done in NVR web interface, logging on with WAN correct?

[shockwave199 0]

If recordings are set to normal record, schedule based and the motion detection is activated, the devices will record 24x7 and also will make a separate log with motion detection, thus not affecting all-day records.

But for this case, you have to disable all motion-based recording and just leave the motion-based detection (so logs can be made).

Try as I may, I cannot follow that and I've read it four times.

 

What I was referring to is searching within web service by file. It may very well behave fine if searching with PSS- which I agree is the better way to search and backup files. But searching by file, it will indeed show regular main stream recording files and have mixed in with them, motion recording files. It's all chronological, but searching this way does break up files separately. I'm sure it's fine otherwise. It's just I always search by file.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Guest

[RickyGee 0]

Or you could setup the motion encode part to 30fps and leave the general encode part to 5-10 fps.

I've yet to see this feature work on my dahua NVR with built in POE. It follows main stream settings only and does not change with motion detection. Not sure if it's an nvr problem or the cameras problem. Using all dahua 2mp mini domes and one 2mp auto focus dome with audio.

 

I discovered that I could load second stream thumbnails at D1 and 5fps into the multipanel view and then doubleclick an image to change to single panel HD and 30fps, and back.

I see this can be done in NVR web interface, logging on with WAN correct?

We only use the remote LAN access to the cameras and NVRs as we have no monitor connected directly to the NVRs in the finished installation. LAN only, no WAN no Internet.

Loading a low res second stream into the multipane view within PSS on the remote PC allowed viewing all the cameras at once without saturating the CPU, yet HD 30fps when you doubleclick an image to bring it to full view (or whatever your primary stream setting is...). PSS will remember your configuration settings when you log off, if you select that option.

I did not notice this same feature if you access the NVR via Webservice tool, but I wasn't looking so it might be there.

[RickyGee 0]

Quote - "I've yet to see this feature work on my dahua NVR with built in POE. It follows main stream settings only and does not change with motion detection. Not sure if it's an nvr problem or the cameras problem. Using all dahua 2mp mini domes and one 2mp auto focus dome with audio."

****************

 

I had to drop using the Dahua internal POE because I could not disable the fact that the NVR would override my static IP addresses I assigned the cameras and reassign class 1 IPs to all the connected cameras. I finally bought an 8 port ZyXel PoE switch and used just the LAN port on the NVR and then everything fell into place. I could load the individual cameras as well as the NVR in the PSS "Device List". Then highlight the pane you want the camera image displayed in and right-click on the camera name in the device list. A pop-up window will give the option to load the primary or seconday stream. I set up my secondary streams by direct access to the cameras via the Webservice to D1, 5fps and highest quality setting. I'm using PSS 4.06.06

 

Edit - I just reread your comment and may have misunderstood. If so please forgive me wasting your time.

[shockwave199 0]

Interesting that the only way I see this behavior is logging into web service WAN. The multi camera split is automatically at sub stream settings but any camera that you bring up single screen will automatically climb up to main stream resolution. This behavior does not work if I log in via LAN, nor does it do it in PSS. I'm running the same version PSS as you. In those instances you open cameras at sub stream and even if you call one up at full screen, it remains at sub stream resolution.