TVL Measuring

[Soundy 1]

The OP's question was, "I need to know if there is any CCTV testing device that can measure the resolution or TVL of the camera, due to some exageration from some suppliers about their cameras' resolution and picture quality. "

 

This arises from the fact that cheaper cameras' sensors have a lower resolution than is claimed by their vendors.

 

You claimed this information can be obtained by viewing the camera via VLC. I state unequivocally that it cannot.

 

VLC will show you the digitizing resolution of your capture device. It won't even tell you the TVL output of the camera itself (which, BTW, is *always* 525 lines for NTSC color, per NTSC spec), let alone the physical resolution of the sensor.

 

Whether the sensor is 520TVL or 280TVL, the camera will still output 525 lines, and the capture device will still digitize that signal at its intended resolution.

 

Until you're prepared to PROVE otherwise, with a video rather than nonsensical rambling, the debate is over.

[Scott Broscious 0]

The OP's question was, "I need to know if there is any CCTV testing device that can measure the resolution or TVL of the camera, due to some exageration from some suppliers about their cameras' resolution and picture quality. "

 

This arises from the fact that cheaper cameras' sensors have a lower resolution than is claimed by their vendors.

Yes we agree on all this information....except for the fact that you keep saying an image sensor has anything to do with resolution or tvl...but again I know what you mean.

 

You claimed this information can be obtained by viewing the camera via VLC. I state unequivocally that it cannot.P

Your telling me the resolution produced by a camera cannot be be viewed by VLC? Hook up a camera with 320TVL in the same process you did here, if VLC doesn't display an equivalent resolution I'll eat my words.

 

Whether the sensor is 520TVL or 280TVL, the camera will still output 525 lines, and the capture device will still digitize that signal at its intended resolution.

A sensor has nothing to do with TVL or resolution. Besides that though, your exactly right. Regardless if the camera is capable of this or that TVL, the output is 525 lines intended for an analog receiver.

 

That ntsc formated image is carried on a carrier wave (this is why bandwidth is important) that also has information about everything else...from what color was the sky to what tvl resolution was decided by the circuits in the camera. When the analog signal is translated into a digital format that analog signal becomes a digital signal. (Which is why computers dont care if your camera is transmitting a pal or ntsc format...by the time the signal is utilized by the computer its already digital)

 

The digital signal has all the same information as that original analog signal, it's just...digital. And that image, instead of being displayed at 520 or 280 tvl, is displayed in its digital equivalent. Again, they're not the same so equivelant isnt the best word to use, they're only relative.

 

 

 

I think I know what the problem is. You keep getting hung up on the sensor. Take the sensor out of the circuit and the tvl the image should be formated into can still be determined....if the image sensor were there to catch the light to generate the needed voltage that is. All the sensor does is change light to voltage which is then stored in capacitors so it can be used to start the "image recreation". (This explaination is simplified) Without film to chemically record the light, the image a camara produces is actually created digitally (with 1's and 0's) regardless of the signal output.

[crirvine 0]

Scott I see you are new here how long you been in busness.

I see your site you advertise has proline cameras I do not see any Pelco, JVC, SONY, AXIS, just cheap no name caneras also do you pay for adds and support this site I support or sponsers and I visit them at the big security shows and thank them for their support.

If you can not dazzle them with brilliance baffull them with bull.

[Scott Broscious 0]

In business as what, a supplier of surveillance equipment? About 3 months. If you want to know how long I've been paying bills with electronics then that would be 10 years professionally, with about 20 years of experience.

 

How does how long I've been selling the equipment mean anything in this discussion. How long have you been working with electronic circuits? Not to be confused with how long you've been working with surveillance equipment. Surveillance equipment is a small classification of electronic equipment. A camera is a camera no matter how its used. The same as when Soundy tried to educate me concerning the game adapter, the "surveillance" part of the name surveillance equipment is a marketing ploy.

 

 

The thing I find funny is how a bunch of "surveillance equipment experts" find the discussion of how that equipment actually functions bull****, or can even consider labelling it "babbeling". Perhaps I was looking for more out of the community in such a tech savvy industry, hopefully you guys are the exception and not the rule.

 

 

Also I'm glad you had a chance to look at my site. What I sell doesn't indicate anything when concerning my electronics experience. What I sell is only a product of how long I've had the connections to get the equipment at wholesale prices I can afford...again 3 months. Unitl I can find a way to get big names to deal directly with me I'm stuck selling no names.

 

The only other part of your post I understood was in regards to paying for adds...do you see any adds on my site other than the safesurf logo? At this point I'm still the local guy with a website. The rest I dont even understand what your trying to say with...so I can't respond.

[ak357 0]

 

Hook up a camera with 320TVL in the same process you did here, if VLC doesn't display an equivalent resolution I'll eat my words.

 

The digital signal has all the same information as that original analog signal, it's just...digital. And that image, instead of being displayed at 520 or 280 tvl, is displayed in its digital equivalent. Again, they're not the same so equivelant isnt the best word to use, they're only relative.

quote]

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

What VLC will show if I connect Standard NTSC color generator

instead camera ?

[Scott Broscious 0]

 

Hook up a camera with 320TVL in the same process you did here, if VLC doesn't display an equivalent resolution I'll eat my words.

 

The digital signal has all the same information as that original analog signal, it's just...digital. And that image, instead of being displayed at 520 or 280 tvl, is displayed in its digital equivalent. Again, they're not the same so equivelant isnt the best word to use, they're only relative.

What VLC will show if I connect Standard NTSC color generator

instead camera ?

Lol my guess is nothing but a 640*480-720*486 window of pixelated garbage, if it works at all, but who knows you just may be treated to the same exact test pattern signal you put in. I've never hooked one up to a computer to see what VLC would show, matter of fact I've never hooked a color generator up to a computer....maybe the monitor, but not the computer. A color generater was designed to test video equipment (cameras, monitors, video recorders etc...understand?) Not media player software or a computer.

 

Again I find it important for you to understand that a computer doesn't care if your signal is pal standard format or ntsc standard format. So it doesn't matter if you use an NTSC standard generator or a PAL standard generator.

 

Hopefully this was a question of curiosity and not one where you were trying to prove something. If you were trying to prove something with that question...stick to what you guys are good at. You might be great with names and model numbers, and you can obviously run some tests on the equipment (hopefully you understand what your reading from these test or you may end up thinking the reduced tvl is due to a bad sensor and not the capictor/resistor/ic/circuit design that may actually be causing the issue) but when it comes to the electronics behind those names and model numbers....you hold no water and have to resort to argueing things you obviously only understand slightly calling it bull**** or babble when someone tries to 'break it down' for you.

 

 

I suggest you 3 start with this link http://www.electronics-tutorials.com/ when you're done with those tutorials find more, go to the library and take out some books on electronics, build some simple circuits to get your feet wet, or better yet take an electronics class at your local community college. Then come back and post to this thread. It would do you a world of good, not only in this thread, but with you choice of profession as well.

[Soundy 1]

Hey Scott, I think everyone else is still waiting for you to show proof of your claims that it's possible to determine the actual TVL resolution on a CCTV camera using VLC, per the original post.

 

Until then, I don't think anyone here will believe that you actually know what you're talking about.

[Scott Broscious 0]

Hey Scott, I think everyone else is still waiting for you to show proof of your claims that it's possible to determine the actual TVL resolution on a CCTV camera using VLC, per the original post. Except you keep dancing around that question because the answer can't be found in this thread.

 

Until then, I don't think anyone here will believe that you actually know what you're talking about.

Well soundy, I'm still waiting for you to answer my question where I asked you to show me where I said actual tvl could be measured with VLC. I said the only accurate way to do this was with an oscilliscope. I suggested VLC would get you a known resolution to base your answer off of. (TVL and pixel resolution are not the same...they are relative).

 

In my third post

An oscilliscope is the end all be all of finding out what is actually happening when your talking about any type of signal. But vlc (and other similar programs) is a less technical, less accurate, means of verifying that your image is as you were told it would be. You were told the camera is capable of 720*480? Well vlc, and programs like it, will verify this....is it accurate? No! But is it better than guessing and hoping that your system is pushing out what you think it is? Yes!

 

I said this was inaccurate, later on in the discussion I even explained why this was inaccurate. But the fact that it was better than just hoping/guessing has already been proven by you, only you failed to see the relation...or maybe you didnt, which could be a reason as to why you danced around my question regarding the tvl of your camera.

 

At this point I'm also not concerned with if you believe what I'm saying is true or not (googling any of the "babble" or "bs" I've presented here will find you a wealth of info regarding what I've said), because you're not what I originally thought you were. At this point I must amend my original ideas and assume only that you guys have a better understanding of the equipment than a typical user would. Which is great, I just didnt expect it. Which is why you guys are quick to dismiss any talk of why/how the equipment does what it does as gibberish and bs which is also why you've been able to get away with statements like "the tvl capabilities of the sensor" or trying to define demaximize like thats really what it was called...and screaming that alt + f4 CLOSES THE PROGRAM". Which in my eyes are all the epitome of babble and bs, but people have probably eaten that up here huh? What is it you keep saying? dazzle with bs or something like that?

 

Hoepfully you guys are the exception and not the rule.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Guest

[crirvine 0]

Scott Broscious Sir as far as me I was in a 2 year electronics school in 1979 that I finished I have worked in this industry for 25 years. You advertise your website on your post and that takes away from the sellers that pay the admins here for advertising. I on otherhand do not sell over the internet or do work outside of my state but I do offer free help to people because I am a nice person and the proline equipment you sell tells me all I need to know about you.

[Scott Broscious 0]

Scott Broscious Sir as far as me I was in a 2 year electronics school in 1979 that I finished I have worked in this industry for 25 years. You advertise your website on your post and that takes away from the sellers that pay the admins here for advertising. I on otherhand do not sell over the internet or do work outside of my state but I do offer free help to people because I am a nice person and the proline equipment you sell tells me all I need to know about you.

 

I think its great you started out your career with some formal education. I don't think its great you thought 2 years was enough. I've been taking radios/tvs/computers apart and putting them back together since the age of 6. Ive had formal education in electronics, electronic equipment service and repair, computerized electrical technology, UHF, VHF, SHF, and satellite communications (all of my formal education is easily verifiable via a background check as is my training...you already have my name just remember im a jr)....and the education continues.

 

Electronics evolve every day, (only the theory stays the same), so i dont suggest believing 2 years back in 79 helps you out that much. All it does is give you an upper hand when you go to get caught back up to the times and, what I would have thought to be, a better understanding of what i was saying than the rest of these guys.. If you're saying anything I've said (all of which can be googled) is incorrect...you may want to head back to school to brush up.

 

I did not know people paid for anything more than the ad space here on the forums. I thought my signature was my signature to do with as I pleased. If its a rule I can change it....no worries. But if you're trying to tell me you're not doing what I am...who's site is that in your sig? You dont sell online? If that webage says anything about the ability to contact someone to pay money for anything...you sell online. Just because you might not get any calls from anyone outside of your state doesnt mean noones looking. I have people from every where looking at my site and I wont even ship out of the US. Do you use a tool like google analytics to analyze the traffic your getting?

 

You're helping people for the same reason I do (well actually i found this site because i broke my hand and cant hold my tools and was bored one day). I'm not here to sell, or I'd advertise in every post like some of the other people, or buy adspace at the top and sides of this forum. As it stands I don't because noone here would want what I can presently offer. But if someones looking for a cheap alternative I'll definitely offer what I have. If they dont want it I can offer my recomendations based on what they want do want.

 

I may be a salesman because I own my own business, but I have no issues with sending someone elsewhere, I'm an electronics technician before Im a salesman. My business is my 'secondary' income. But if I can make a bit of extra money doing/talking about things i love to do/talk about...why not make a bit of extra money? Especially with times as they are now.

 

 

My link in my sig is more for SEO than for you to buy something from me (Much the same reason yours is in your sig I bet...especially if you're still going to claim that your not selling something online). The fact that you "don't sell" online speaks wonders for why you dont know why I'd label a link "Professional Cameras"...again seo. I know the gear is no name...which is why my bounce rate is so bad. But with 25 unique visitors a week as of right now and only being online 3 months once I get the gear, I'll be fine.

 

Again what I sell is only indicative of what I have available to me. I can't go sign a contract with Bosch to buy 10,000 units at a discounted price, I can't afford to do that (if thats even the way its done). So I sell a lot of these and get better equipment with the profit. It's how some business' start if they're not funded or backed by the company they sell/install for.

 

 

I can tell alot about you by your site as well, I suggest rethinking the design as the present design is... Why not just provide one link for people to send you an email? Damn near every link on your site is to send an email (or call) for further information. Continue to bring the pain in the form of your insults. Its going to take a bit more than that to get under my skin. I'm a prior Marine...all you're going to get is return fire.

 

Now I can say I'm done with this thing. This is now a measurement of skill and product and not a measurement of the resolution or TVL of the camera or the electronics behind it.

[ak357 0]

the only accurate way to measure this

(that i know of) would be with an oscilliscope sometimes called a spectrum analyzer

 

quote]

------------------------------------------------------

 

I really like this wording

never heard from any techs in my life

but both have CRT and that how u compare them hmm

and u call your self tech ?

I don't think so

by the way I have 2 scopes at home

I can sell one cheap

I don't mind to help beginners

Edited June 19, 2009 by Guest

[crirvine 0]

Scott we can do this for ever I started my education in 1979 I still go to schools to this day I live in a state that requires by law to be state licenesseed and to display that thats why I link our web site I build all of our DVRs NVRs desktops from scratch and no this this not the only thing I do I chose not to own a busness for presonal reasons but thats not up for discussion as for the forum rules I had to be cleared to use the tag for the website and we have yet to sell any items. And if you want to test systems FM SYSTEMS sells nice test tools that are made for the job not the noname ebay equipment you sell good luck I have no more time to waste on you. Pay for a banner add here become a respected member and good luck.

[Soundy 1]

the only accurate way to measure this

(that i know of) would be with an oscilliscope sometimes called a spectrum analyzer

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

I really like this wording

never heard from any techs in my life

but both have CRT and that how u compare them hmm

and u call your self tech ?

I don't think so

by the way I have 2 scopes at home

I can sell one cheap

I don't mind to help beginners

 

Hmmm.... ya know, I've been in electronics for a good 30+ years, I've never heard of a 'scope "sometimes called a spectrum analyzer" either.

 

Some 'scopes CAN BE USED as a spectrum analyzer, as one of their many functions... but the two are NOT the same thing.

 

Scott we can do this for ever I started my education in 1979 I still go to schools to this day I live in a state that requires by law to be state licenesseed and to display that thats why I link our web site I build all of our DVRs NVRs desktops from scratch and no this this not the only thing I do I chose not to own a busness for presonal reasons but thats not up for discussion as for the forum rules I had to be cleared to use the tag for the website and we have yet to sell any items. And if you want to test systems FM SYSTEMS sells nice test tools that are made for the job not the noname ebay equipment you sell good luck I have no more time to waste on you. Pay for a banner add here become a respected member and good luck.

 

Scott's taken every opportunity here to 'whip it out' and offer himself for measurement... no need to stoop to his level, I think he's proven himself relatively deficient. He'll argue around and around forever without ever backing up his claim that VLC is of ANY use in determining a CCTV camera's TVL.

 

In short, methinks he doth protest too much.

[Scott Broscious 0]

the only accurate way to measure this

(that i know of) would be with an oscilliscope sometimes called a spectrum analyzer

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

I really like this wording

never heard from any techs in my life

but both have CRT and that how u compare them hmm

and u call your self tech ?

I don't think so

by the way I have 2 scopes at home

I can sell one cheap

I don't mind to help beginners

 

Hmmm.... ya know, I've been in electronics for a good 30+ years, I've never heard of a 'scope "sometimes called a spectrum analyzer" either.

 

Some 'scopes CAN BE USED as a spectrum analyzer, as one of their many functions... but the two are NOT the same thing.

 

Scott we can do this for ever I started my education in 1979 I still go to schools to this day I live in a state that requires by law to be state licenesseed and to display that thats why I link our web site I build all of our DVRs NVRs desktops from scratch and no this this not the only thing I do I chose not to own a busness for presonal reasons but thats not up for discussion as for the forum rules I had to be cleared to use the tag for the website and we have yet to sell any items. And if you want to test systems FM SYSTEMS sells nice test tools that are made for the job not the noname ebay equipment you sell good luck I have no more time to waste on you. Pay for a banner add here become a respected member and good luck.

 

Scott's taken every opportunity here to 'whip it out' and offer himself for measurement... no need to stoop to his level, I think he's proven himself relatively deficient. He'll argue around and around forever without ever backing up his claim that VLC is of ANY use in determining a CCTV camera's TVL.

 

In short, methinks he doth protest too much.

 

This is funny. I was going to stay away because its no longer about electronics or the measurement of resolution or tvl, but I figured I'd share with you:

 

 

Some 'scopes CAN BE USED as a spectrum analyzer, as one of their many functions... but the two are NOT the same thing.

Remember what happened last time you were so confident about something??? (alt + f4 WILL CLOSE THE PROGRAM....does that ring any bells?)

 

Soundy you're right, an ordinary oscilliscope is not a spectrum analyzer however a spectrum analyzer IS an oscilliscope, one that's capable of distinguishing spectrums in the GHz frequency range. The only other difference lies in the fact that spectrum analyzers are usually used to measure strenght of a signal againts its frequency and a normal oscilliscope is used to measure strenght of a signal against time.

 

Soundy 30 years in electronics and you don't know a spectrum analyzer is an oscilliscope? That doesn't suprise me considering you say things like "the tvl capabilities of the sensor", but it does make me question the 30 years in electronics. Maybe 30 years in this small niche of electronics, that I can see and would be willing to believe, but 30 years in electronics.....saying the crap you've said in this thread alone? I don't buy. Also, for like the third time in this thread, you've already proven that vlc will give you the output pixel resolution which can be used to determine the tvl...is it accurate? Nope...and I've said so from the beginning.

 

Ak, yes I call myself a tech, so does my current employer and so did the united states marine corps....who calls you a tech? Stick to being a pushy salesman. You've tried selling me cameras and now an oscilliscope...whats next?

 

Once again, though, you guys are stuck argueing semantics. Why didnt you pick up on this obviously "discrediting" issue earlier when this thread is 3 pages long with nothing but you trying to discredit me with any information you could? Because its not an issue. The salesmen says something he thinks is clever and you jump in as well? Would you have rather I said "the only accurate method is with an oscilliscope called a spectrum analyzer"...or maybe "with a spectrum analyzer that is also called an oscilliscope? Continue argueing semantics, its starting to prove you all know what you're talking about

 

 

crirvine- You're required to have a license, from my understanding of it, because you're held to a standard. It says nothing about your work/skill other than that if you go against the ethical guidelines needed to keep that license....you lose it. Other than that you just apear to be a 25 year installation tech, which is great, but with the 2 years of elctronics you've already studied you have the foundation to be capable of so much more.

 

Again join me in continued education. That 2 years of electronics qualifies you as someone who should understand theory and someone that should be able to work with/repair simple circuits. I doubt your building anything from scratch, unless you've left something out of your "resume", unless you define building from scratch as "putting together the prebuilt parts". If you are building these from scratch then the company you work for needs a better manufacturing process as building an entire dvr system from scratch (when someone says "from scratch" in the electronics field I think of taking a clean bread board or layout and soldering in each and every component by hand) would be time consuming to say the least. So unless you're going to tell me you do this for a hobby I throw up the bull**** flag right now.

 

I've also removed the link in my sig. Now I'm not advertising my "no name" gear. Regardless of what I sell I'd still like to know how you use that as a measure skill? If I was selling cocaine instead of selling cameras I would still have been formally educated as an electronics technician. Product is a measure of what you have available...not your expertise with the electronics that make that product.

 

You can continue to make fun of the equipment I sell. Again, I'm only selling it until I can afford to buy better. Also I've yet to sell on ebay as I don't think the fees are fair for small merchants like they were back when ebay started. Are you an example of the "respected" member you'd like me to become?

 

 

 

Again, all I've said here regarding electronics is all over the internet. My schooling and military records are public access as well. So I've no need to lie, or exagerate, as I'm not hiding behind a screen name and the lie/exageration could be easily shown for what it was.

 

 

 

Alex, I think I've come up with my own reason behind why most don't stay here very long. Personally I dont think it has anything to do with not getting paid to do it. But don't worry guys, once I can get the use of my hand back to what it was prior to getting stuck in this brace I'll have no reason to waste my time here, and can continue on with my normal routine. Which means you can go along misinforming people by acting like you understand the electronics behind the equipment when you don't, hell you don't even fully understand the test equipment you claim is at your disposal. I was looking for a more.....knowledgeable community anyway. Again, hopefully I'm wrong and you guys are just the exception and not the rule.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Guest

[crirvine 0]

SCOTT YOU ARE NOT WORTH MY TIME BOY.

[Scott Broscious 0]

SCOTT YOU ARE NOT WORTH MY TIME BOY.

Apparently neither is your website. I suggest spending more time on it then you have on me.

[hardwired 0]

Good lord, I can smell the smoke from here.... Is anybody besides me concerned about the fact that after you factor in losses from cabling, connectors, interference, and compression artifacts, you are lucky to get a (perceived) 250 TVL at your monitor? I agree that starting with a good, high resolution camera is important, but that picture quality can have more to do with S/N ratio, WDR, lens selection, camera placement, and low light capability more than raw TVL capability.

Somewhere along the line, we have to remember that our customers are looking at a picture on a screen. If that picture gives them useful information to work with, then we've done our job. If it does not, we haven't. Let's focus on factors associated with that, and maybe this will be a little nicer place.

[Zaher 0]

I really want to thank all the members that have replied to my subject.

 

Back to the subject, it is well known that oscilloscopes and spectrum analysers will depict any analog signal covered by their measuring range, and will give much more information than the TVL.

 

I heard about a device that is handy and portable that can give direct readings of TVL, but the side that provided me with this info is unreachable.

 

It seems that it is a self designed circuit.

Many thanks.

[Soundy 1]

Soundy 30 years in electronics and you don't know a spectrum analyzer is an oscilliscope?

 

I know that a collie is a dog, but a dog isn't necessarily a collie.

 

And by the way, I've dealt with plenty of spectrum analyzers in the audio world that were NOT oscilloscopes, but little more than a series of filters and LED drivers.

 

Oh... and yes, alt-F4 still CLOSES a window. Shuts down the application, takes it out of the task list. Just the same as it always has in Windows.

 

Ready for that Listerine enema yet?

[nadort 0]

I am a newie here from the netherlands but we use here a test chart from a british firm CCTVLABS . Its a nice chart and measuring the tvl, bandwitdh, gamma and resolution is very easy and you do not need a lot of equipment on site. I do not know if there is somthing like that in the USA.

[dopalgangr 0]

I am a newie here from the netherlands but we use here a test chart from a british firm CCTVLABS . Its a nice chart and measuring the tvl, bandwitdh, gamma and resolution is very easy and you do not need a lot of equipment on site. I do not know if there is somthing like that in the USA.

 

You mean this http://www.cctvlabs.com/cctv_test_chart_instructions_latest.pdf

[nadort 0]

Sorry for my late reply on the test chart but Yes thats the one and its very handy for a quick check. The other equipment of that firm (cctvlabs) is also very good but also expensive.

To test a camera on site we also use what we call a "Rotakin" test Doll

[Scott Broscious 0]

Soundy 30 years in electronics and you don't know a spectrum analyzer is an oscilliscope?

 

I know that a collie is a dog, but a dog isn't necessarily a collie.

Is this you argreeing with me or are you just playing more word games?

Soundy you're right, an ordinary oscilliscope is not a spectrum analyzer however a spectrum analyzer IS an oscilliscope

 

And by the way, I've dealt with plenty of spectrum analyzers in the audio world that were NOT oscilloscopes, but little more than a series of filters and LED drivers.

Lets tie this in with this statement you made a bit further back in the thread:

Some 'scopes CAN BE USED as a spectrum analyzer, as one of their many functions... but the two are NOT the same thing

Ok now that we have them both here...neither you nor anyone else has ever used a spectrum analyzer that isn't an oscilloscope.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscilloscope

Special-purpose oscilloscopes, called spectrum analyzers, have sensitive inputs and can display spectra well into the GHz range. A few oscilloscopes that accept plug-ins can display spectra in the audio range.

Notice how it said "oscilloscopes called spectrum analyzers" and not "oscilloscopes that can be used as spectrum analyzers".

 

the only accurate way to measure this

(that i know of) would be with an oscilliscope sometimes called a spectrum analyzer

I really like this wording

never heard from any techs in my life

but both have CRT and that how u compare them hmm

and u call your self tech ?

I don't think so

by the way I have 2 scopes at home

I can sell one cheap

I don't mind to help beginners

I hope he still likes my wording. I'd also like to met someone he'd refer to as a tech...one that doesn't know a spec anni is an oscilloscope. I never call a car a vehicle but does that mean its not a vehicle? Good reason behind why a spec anni isn't an oscope ak...good reason! lol. Also, no I don't think they're related because they both have a crt. Why?

 

The form or intended function of an oscilloscope is not what makes it an oscilloscope. Oscilloscopes can take on many forms and use displays ranging from paper to crts to leds to lcd and anything else you can make work effectively and can be used to measure anything that can be converted into a voltage....which is damn near anything. I suggest you read that entire wiki, and then do a bit of further study, so that you can understand what it is you're talking about.

 

I'd actually like to know what you think a typical oscilloscope is made up of since your spec anni isn't an oscilloscope just because it has little more than filters and a display driver. Here's a hint for you - just about any electronic device can be simplified and still retain its basic functionality.

 

For the sake of further arguement, lets assume you have a special spec anni that isn't an oscilloscope. Why bring it up in this conversation? It's very obvious I'm talking about a spec anni that is an oscilloscope. Was this an attempt to 1-up me or just some unrelated information you decided to share for the hell of fit or did you actually think that there were no spectrum analyzers that are oscilloscopes? Nevermind...I've already quoted an answer for that question. You thought:

Some 'scopes CAN BE USED as a spectrum analyzer, as one of their many functions... but the two are NOT the same thing

To bad the wiki has proven this statement incorrect.

 

Oh... and yes, alt-F4 still CLOSES a window.

Finally you get it right, but why say alt f4 still closes a window like that's what you've been saying the entire time:

Umm... alt-f4 will CLOSE THE PROGRAM

Oh... and yes, alt-F4 still CLOSES a window. Shuts down the application, takes it out of the task list. Just the same as it always has in Windows.

You're finally 100% correct! An application is an executable file (.exe) not a program. A program is what makes that application work and can contain more than one application along with many other files. Without a program to run it any application, by itself, is useless. Hopefully you now know the difference between a program and an application and can see why I argued against your statement that:

Umm... alt-f4 will CLOSE THE PROGRAM

 

Ready for that Listerine enema yet?

Is that some sort of cctv/audio field only enema? Maybe we can go together and you can show me how you've been taking it like a man for the last 30 years. Edited July 5, 2009 by Guest

[Soundy 1]

Hey Scott, the whole group is still waiting for you to show us how you can use VLC to determine the TVL resolution of a camera. Quit blowing smoke out your arse and either make with the proof, or admit you were wrong.

 

Just a refresher for you:

I need to know if there is any CCTV testing device that can measure the resolution or TVL of the camera, due to some exageration from some suppliers about their cameras' resolution and picture quality.

 

A less technical, less accurate way, would be to take the recording from your video cameras, get it onto your computer and use a program like vlc (or maybe windows media player...i dont really use it though so im not sure) to view the video.

[Scott Broscious 0]

LOL The whole group? Since when does just you, or givingin the benifit of the doubt the 3 of you, constitute everyone? 5 or 6 have posted, that I can count so at best your whole group is little more than half. I'm the one blowing smoke? lol

 

Everything you've used to try and prove me wrong has been proven incorrect so you revert back to argueing against my after thought. Here's an idea, since you've got such a big issue with the after thought. Forget it was ever said.

 

Funny how with that thought removed from the thread EVERYTHING else I've said, from measuring it with an oscope to how the cameras/adapters/oscilloscopes function and what they are is 100% accurate yet you've still gotten away with saying things that are not correct no matter how you look at them.

 

"tvl capabilities of an image sensor" What image sensor has tvl capabilities?

 

"a spec anni isn't an oscilloscope" what spec anni isn't an oscope

 

"demaximise the window" where's this demaximize function located...all I see is minimize, restore down and close

 

"alt f4 closes a program" nope it closes a window

 

Now once again you've resorted to saying I'm blowing smoke out of my ass, showing just how much you actually do know about electronics, yet through this entire conversation the only one blowing any kind of smoke was you.

 

You're right though...I should just take a loss because you obviously know SOOOO much about electronics and you can't get it to work so it must not.

 

Once again I'll pose the challange I did earlier in this thread - try it with a camera with less tvl. If it doesn't display something other than a 720*480 resolution I'll eat my words. Again, dont confuse yourself, pixel resolution and tvl are not the same...they are only relative.

 

What I find funny is that you've been harping on my words being incorrect and argueing against them for 4 pages now yet when I point something out that you've incorrectly said you either change it up or you ignore it like it was never said.

 

Either way it matters little to me. You're attempts to prove me wrong, and my attempts to ensure you were knowledgable about what you were argueing, is what pulled this thread so far. Had you not said anything the first post would have been my last, but then you had to argue an after thought like I said it was the word of god and then continued to argue, unsuccessfully, anything else I said in response to your arguements because you invisioned yourself as being more knowledgeable.