IP cameras and market pricing

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

I am interested to find out what is the current pricing and who is providing the best value for IP cameras... My personal focus is on minidomes rather than brick version cameras.

 

1. What is hot and what is not for regular IP cameras no less than 480TVL and preferably H.264 stream? We are seeing many newer companies offering more and more solutions at this level. Lets have three different categories for this option from sub-$200, sub-$300 and less than $500 level solutions available.

 

2. Megapixel minidome cameras - will be very interesting to find out what is really out there for up to 2MP level. Most customers do not see the benefit (or better yet, can not afford the cost) of higher MP cameras out there... thus, for the purpose of this thread, I am interested what is out there that is up and coming and could potentially make a dent on this market.

 

For the sake of discussion, I'd like to keep the major manufacturers out, including Axis, Arecont, Bosch and others..

 

Thanks in advance!

[buellwinkle 0]

Coming back from CES, I've noticed some interesting companies I've never heard of before.

 

A good alternative to Arecont in L.A. would be Startdot 40 miles south in the O.C.. About the same price point, makes a very traditional looking box camera, includes the software and lens in their price from what I've seen. The 5 MP runs about $800 retail, the 3 MP runs about $700. The picture quality is up there with Mobotix, meaning it's way better than Axis or Arecont for example not even counting the fact that Axis doesn't even make a 3 or 5 MP camera. Like Arecont, they can't write directly to a NAS, but they are close to coming out with that. I would notconsider a camera that can not write directly to NAS. Also, they include software for free, another reason I stay away from Arecont.

 

On the low end, I came across a company based in LA, but makes their cameras in Taiwan, TSM (or netzeye.com). They make up to a 1.3 MP camera but for an Asian made camera, it was way better than anything I've seen from Shenzhen for example. Their VGA camera dome camera was for sale at the show for $159. I may use them in a project that does not require high resolution. Don't know anything about their built in software, but the PC software is completely free.

 

I did run into a company making their IP cameras in Shenzhen that were in the $400 price range for 3.1 MP. I have their brochure somewhere but I was dissapointed in the image quality. It was like having a Foscam VGA camera but with 3.1 MP. I like Foscam for what it is, but not for $400. I would rather kick in some extra coin at this point and get a Mobotix dome.

 

There were other companies with cameras there, but nothing that stood out. Most of the booth babes knew nothing about the cameras and there were no techs in the booth. A lot of money to pay for a booth at CES to blow it.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

Thanks for the response...

 

I also had some opportunities to view certain models from other manufacturers that have not made any serious splash as of yet...

 

Hikvision is one that looks very good thus far... and the make both lower res and high res boxed and minidomes cameras... impressive thus far, but not sure how their customer service or support is. Pricing is decent comparatively with most - their hi res IP cameras are around $350 range, where as the 2MP cameras could be around $500... These are average street pricing that we found online and I am sure these number could be higher or lower depends where you buy them.

 

Another up and coming company is Grandstream.. they have only three IP boxed cameras and few encoders... not many flavors as of yet, but very promising. We tested their mid-range performer and it looks very good.. I only wish that they start to make some minidomes and according to the company, they are planning to do it... Some of the street pricing varies between $250.00 to as high as $450.00 dependent which model and the most expensive one of course is their 2MP camera...

 

Not much of anything else that we tested recently that the forum members have not seen or used.

 

Anyway, thanks for your input. I will check with Startdot and netzeye..

[buellwinkle 0]

Sorry, my spelling error, but it's Stardot, and their website is www.stardot.com

[cctv_down_under 0]

It is pretty interesting to note that Sanyo are now ONLY producing HD cams - all new models will be High Def - they have released 9x new HD cameras all at full frame rate - thats a big commitment and IMHO a risk but if it leads them to having the most experience then good on them

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

Sorry, my spelling error, but it's Stardot, and their website is http://www.stardot.com

 

No problems bud... I already confirmed it... and thanks.

[cglaeser 0]

Coming back from CES, I've noticed some interesting companies

 

Any advances in low light performance to report?

 

Best,

Christopher

[koolmer 0]

Low light is also my main concern. I have a site with a hybrid system, but no IP cam yet. The idea was to put a 2MP cam at the reception, but the light at night is pretty low. It's only street lights coming through the (big) windows.

 

The analog Day/Night camera has no problem making a clear B/W image at night, but I wonder how a 2MP camera would do. Any input on this?

[cglaeser 0]

The analog Day/Night camera has no problem making a clear B/W image at night, but I wonder how a 2MP camera would do. Any input on this?

 

Everything else being equal, bigger pixels will have better low light performance over smaller pixels. Everything else equal, an increase in pixel count means smaller pixels. So, if you are looking for a megapixel camera in the sub $1000 that performs on par in low light with the better sub $500 analog cameras, you probably won't find one.

 

Best,

Christopher

[yair4 0]

The analog Day/Night camera has no problem making a clear B/W image at night, but I wonder how a 2MP camera would do. Any input on this?

 

Everything else being equal, bigger pixels will have better low light performance over smaller pixels. Everything else equal, an increase in pixel count means smaller pixels. So, if you are looking for a megapixel camera in the sub $1000 that performs on par in low light with the better sub $500 analog cameras, you probably won't find one.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

Well, Do you know any good MP camera that works in night ? Doesnt metter what the cost.

I have noticed for instance, Arconet 3MP gives you 3mp in day, but only 1.2 in night.

[cglaeser 0]

Well, Do you know any good MP camera that works in night ? Doesnt metter what the cost.

I have noticed for instance, Arconet 3MP gives you 3mp in day, but only 1.2 in night.

 

That's typically the way the better MP cameras achieve improved low light performance ... either combine pixels in post processing (e.g. Panasonic 502) or use a separate BW night sensor with larger pixels (e.g. Arecont, Mobotix).

 

If cost does not matter, then the best option for a single camera is probably to use a quality MP camera that is IR sensitive and add a quality IR flood. If multiple cameras is an option, then multiple Samsung SHC-745 analog cameras might be a better solution.

 

Or better yet, you could make one hell-of-a low light PTZ with a Samsung SHC-745 and zoom lens, Pelco PT mount, and IOImage video analytic. Yes, the 745 is analog, but if the IOImage PTZ works as well as advertised, you could potentially get more relevant detail than a fixed 3MP camera, and, ... at night! I've been thinking seriously about building one of these myself.

 

Best,

Christopher

[thewireguys 3]

Well, Do you know any good MP camera that works in night ? Doesnt metter what the cost.

I have noticed for instance, Arconet 3MP gives you 3mp in day, but only 1.2 in night.

 

That's typically the way the better MP cameras achieve improved low light performance ... either combine pixels in post processing (e.g. Panasonic 502) or use a separate BW night sensor with larger pixels (e.g. Arecont, Mobotix).

 

If cost does not matter, then the best option for a single camera is probably to use a quality MP camera that is IR sensitive and add a quality IR flood. If multiple cameras is an option, then multiple Samsung SHC-745 analog cameras might be a better solution.

 

Or better yet, you could make one hell-of-a low light PTZ with a Samsung SHC-745 and zoom lens, Pelco PT mount, and IOImage video analytic. Yes, the 745 is analog, but if the IOImage PTZ works as well as advertised, you could potentially get more relevant detail than a fixed 3MP camera, and, ... at night! I've been thinking seriously about building one of these myself.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

Make sure you check the IoImage PTZ compatibility list. I didn't see any PT mounts on the list but I could be wrong.

[cglaeser 0]

Make sure you check the IoImage PTZ compatibility list. I didn't see any PT mounts on the list but I could be wrong.

 

Good point. Might require access to an ioimage SDK to make it work.

 

Best,

Christopher

[buellwinkle 0]

To do good low light, I feel you need a dedicated b&w sensor like on the Mobotix M12-SEC Day/Night. There are some cameras like Arecont that boast their Moonlight mode, but really, it's just an extended exposure per frame, so what you end up with is a fantastic sharp night shot as long as nobody is moving. Stardot claims they can maintain a color image in less light than Arecont or Mobotix, but of course, that's the point, color, you really need to go b&w to get true low lux.

 

From what I can see, from red light cameras and toll road evasion cameras and my vacation point & shoot camera, they all have one thing in common, a flash. If you need to capture a nice crisp color shot that's sharp even with motion, you need a flash or a powerful light. The red light cameras by me use 2 lights per camera that are huge, about 2' long and 10" diameter and they blind you when you drive through, but they work. Alternatley you can get some IR panels that are invisible or near invisible light, but that's for IR, which is b&w anyway.

 

This is what I get from our Mobotix on a none moonlight night, just with some fluorescent ligths in the pool area which are terrible for IR.

 

[Guest]

Hikvision will be launching a 5Megapix camera soon, I have 1 unit for testing but since it is a test unit, and I know they will modify it before release I will not make any screenshots available, but wait for the official released unit later.

 

I am not 100% satisfied, but as I said it is one unit out of five total, so I guess later this month or in february there will be more information.

 

 

JD

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

Hikvision will be launching a 5Megapix camera soon, I have 1 unit for testing but since it is a test unit, and I know they will modify it before release I will not make any screenshots available, but wait for the official released unit later.

 

I am not 100% satisfied, but as I said it is one unit out of five total, so I guess later this month or in february there will be more information.

 

 

JD

 

JD, do you have an average price points at this time for this 5MP camera?

 

I tell you, very impressed with Hikvision cameras... they keep very minimal stock and most of the time, you should plan ahead if you intend to purchase large quantity - anything more than 10 units... otherwise you have to wait for at least 2 weeks for product arrival from China... Can not say much about the warranty response nor how they handle it, but from as little as we know, it could take 2 weeks or more to get replacement available...

 

We tested their cameras with several software packages... it works and does fairly good job. The price points are very favorable... I just wish that they get on the gear and bring in more product for stock.

[Guest]

Hikvision will be launching a 5Megapix camera soon, I have 1 unit for testing but since it is a test unit, and I know they will modify it before release I will not make any screenshots available, but wait for the official released unit later.

 

I am not 100% satisfied, but as I said it is one unit out of five total, so I guess later this month or in february there will be more information.

 

 

JD

 

JD, do you have an average price points at this time for this 5MP camera?

 

I tell you, very impressed with Hikvision cameras... they keep very minimal stock and most of the time, you should plan ahead if you intend to purchase large quantity - anything more than 10 units... otherwise you have to wait for at least 2 weeks for product arrival from China... Can not say much about the warranty response nor how they handle it, but from as little as we know, it could take 2 weeks or more to get replacement available...

 

We tested their cameras with several software packages... it works and does fairly good job. The price points are very favorable... I just wish that they get on the gear and bring in more product for stock.

 

 

Hi!

 

Far as I know there are no offical pricing yet. sorry!

 

 

Best Regards

 

 

JD

[koolmer 0]

Hikvision will be launching a 5Megapix camera soon, I have 1 unit for testing but since it is a test unit, and I know they will modify it before release I will not make any screenshots available, but wait for the official released unit later.

 

I am not 100% satisfied, but as I said it is one unit out of five total, so I guess later this month or in february there will be more information.

 

 

JD

 

I am looking for a D/N cam with 2MP. Hikvision doesn't have D/N cams on their Website and all MP cams they have are 1/3" and I guess thats a disadvantage in low light. How about the new ones?

 

btw. 500 posts! Congratulations!

[StevenTung 0]

We are getting into the IP cameras more and more in some project, where the ethernet cable is ready.

We found that the deployment of IP camera is much faster than the coxial one. and most important is that

it is high scalable.

Would the IP cam replace the traditional one in the future ?

 

www.cyber-sys.com.hk

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

I am looking for a D/N cam with 2MP. Hikvision doesn't have D/N cams on their Website and all MP cams they have are 1/3" and I guess thats a disadvantage in low light. How about the new ones?

 

btw. 500 posts! Congratulations!

 

We tested Hikvision 2MP camera outdoors.. it is not a good performer unless you have a lot of night lights. But then again even Arecont, Bosch, AD and others (coincidence is that most of such manufacturers cameras use the same chipset from Arecont) higher MP cameras are under performers during the night anyway...

 

One of the posts in this thread shows night picture using Mobotix camera - it looks good as long as the area is very well lighted... I wander what the picture will look like if they turn of half of the light or more...

 

There is one box camera from Grandstream - http://www.grandstream.com/products/gxv_series_surveillance/gxv3601/gxv3601.html - that we will test soon. According to its specs, it is a low light camera and ability to stream H.264 video... I guess we will see how it performs soon enough.

[cglaeser 0]

There is one box camera from Grandstream - http://www.grandstream.com/products/gxv_series_surveillance/gxv3601/gxv3601.html - that we will test soon. According to its specs, it is a low light camera and ability to stream H.264 video... I guess we will see how it performs soon enough.

 

That's a 1/3" Super HAD CCD with D1 resolution. It had better beat the pants off any multi-megapixel in low light. If CCTV resolution is OK and you want low light and H.264, attach a 1/2" Exview CCTV (e.g. Samsung SHC-745) to an Axis H.264 video encoder. That combination would be tough to beat in low light. Again, assuming CCTV resolution is acceptable.

 

Best,

Christopher

[hardwired 0]

I am looking for a D/N cam with 2MP. Hikvision doesn't have D/N cams on their Website and all MP cams they have are 1/3" and I guess thats a disadvantage in low light. How about the new ones?

 

btw. 500 posts! Congratulations!

 

We tested Hikvision 2MP camera outdoors.. it is not a good performer unless you have a lot of night lights. But then again even Arecont, Bosch, AD and others (coincidence is that most of such manufacturers cameras use the same chipset from Arecont) higher MP cameras are under performers during the night anyway...

 

One of the posts in this thread shows night picture using Mobotix camera - it looks good as long as the area is very well lighted... I wander what the picture will look like if they turn of half of the light or more...

 

There is one box camera from Grandstream - http://www.grandstream.com/products/gxv_series_surveillance/gxv3601/gxv3601.html - that we will test soon. According to its specs, it is a low light camera and ability to stream H.264 video... I guess we will see how it performs soon enough.

 

The imagers are not Arecont... Arecont, Acti, and almost all other manufacturers using CMOS imagers, are using imagers from Aptina Imaging http://www.aptina.com (previously Micron).

[Biphase 0]

Alot of megapixels are OEMed for other manufacturers....expecially arecont cameras.

[thewireguys 3]

Alot of megapixels are OEMed for other manufacturers....expecially arecont cameras.

 

I only know of one manufacture that Arecont OEMs for.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

I know of at least three...