jbaird 0 Posted June 27, 2011 I have used these cameras in the past, but have been out of the game for a while. Is there a newer model with similar/better features in this same price range that anyone would suggest that I take a look at? Thanks, Josh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted June 27, 2011 We're still using them regularly (well, the VCM version). Still solidly among the best performers in their class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liveinxs 0 Posted June 28, 2011 We're still using them regularly (well, the VCM version). Still solidly among the best performers in their class. the VCM-24Vf are sick cameras, you can't beat them for the price...xxx.00, how can you go wrong... i am ordering two more friday.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted June 28, 2011 the VCM-24Vf are sick cameras, you can't beat them for the price... Thats dealer pricing though (actually below it) so retail it is much more. We arent allowed to discuss dealer prices on the public forum .. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liveinxs 0 Posted June 28, 2011 the VCM-24Vf are sick cameras, you can't beat them for the price... Thats dealer pricing though (actually below it) so retail it is much more. We arent allowed to discuss dealer prices on the public forum .. yes i understand , thats why i didn't mention from where the camera is being sold for that price...i just meant to say that what i paid, delivered to my door... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted June 30, 2011 We're still using them regularly (well, the VCM version). Still solidly among the best performers in their class. I dont agree .. I just spent a few hours on one here ... tried everything .. Basically the Monalisa has way too much noise outside at night with or without light, DNR on high, or in color or BW (and it has to be very dark to switch to BW). Ive noticed this at a few different locations where they were installed. This noise makes it particularly awful over the network after compression. Anyway they are still good for some applications but IMO they just arent worth the savings for outside, I wont be using them again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Angus 0 Posted June 30, 2011 Hi Rory, Just wondering what you are replacing them with or will be using instead? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 187 Posted June 30, 2011 we did have problems also with the CNB VBM-24VF which we used to buy from a supplier. then we started buying direct. the CNB VBM-24VF was no longer made by CNB since 3 months ago. but USA still have stocks and can only be bought from the USA. the new CNB VBM are now out but i will say the new samsung WV DSP is a much better camera and alot cheaper than CNB. the samsung is sold in America under the name of Qvis ( they joined the forum 3 weeks ago) so i hope they can give us some footage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bricor 0 Posted June 30, 2011 Tom, Which model from Qvis? I buy from them but thought they all used a sony chipset. (never mind, i think I figured out which model you are talking about) I've used CNB as well and haven't had any issues. Trying to download a night time pic now of one to post (that has plenty of light). The night time image with a flood light is very good. I have another on the side of my house with very little light and the image varies a bit depending on the settings. I've had it adjusted where the image was very clean but changed some settings and now I do have some noise, just haven't got back out to mess with it. I also just received some IR illuminators off ebay and plan on adding a couple of those. (puck type that have been posted about before on here) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cglaeser 0 Posted June 30, 2011 the new CNB VBM are now out but i will say the new samsung WV DSP is a much better camera and alot cheaper than CNB. Which model are you using? I have a Samsung SVD-4400 and it's a good performer, but there is no excuse for the difficulty of the install. There is no notch or anything to help with alignment when attaching the camera to the base, so you have to line up four tiny screw holes that you can't see, and while trying to keep that in alignment, screw in four tiny screws that are determined to fall to the ground and hide in the bushes. In the end, I decided to mount the camera to the base near the ground, and then take that assembly with up the ladder attach the wall mount last, feeding the extra cable back through the hole just before attaching it to the wall. The install design is a disaster. Best, Christopher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birdman Adam 0 Posted June 30, 2011 Tom what do you mean the VBM-24VF is no longer made by CNB??? Also, where is the new model? I'd like to see what they've added/improved. Here is a screencap from a recording back-up from a Samsung SRD-870 of a VCM-24VF: IMO a beautiful picture. In testing, faces can be seen easily. At night this cabin has motion lights, and dim lights that stay on all night. The picture is great 24/7. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted June 30, 2011 Here is a screencap from a recording back-up from a Samsung SRD-870 of a VCM-24VF: IMO a beautiful picture. In testing, faces can be seen easily. At night this cabin has motion lights, and dim lights that stay on all night. The picture is great 24/7. Yeah but thats a tiny little area to cover, a camera a 1/4 the price of the VBM would look good there also My biggest problem with them as mentioned is the noise, and the lack of switching over to BW unless it is near pitch dark. But they arent alone, every true day night I tested over the last year had noise issues older cameras never had in the same lighting conditions. I have them at several locations and noise has always been an issue - even if it is bearable on the DVR end (one can simply turn down the monitor's contrast also), over the network is where it really becomes annoying. I got a $50 bullet that has no noise, if there is light, it sees and its clear, while the VBM in the same exact car park is full of noise in color OR bw with the same amount of light, a powerful dusk to dawn. It works great with Infrared, but for a regular day night app its the most annoying day night camera Ive ever worked with, and Day night apps have been 99% of my work over the past 10 years. What I also notice is the lack of consistency, where a couple would be good but most are not. Seems like QC is out the window these days. Eg. VCM-24VF - even in this low light it still wont switch to BW VBM-24VF - with a TON of lighting Now if i was just trying to sell it I could do this VCM-24VF vs KT&C Mini Bullet (obviously there is loss from compression in both of them but its just to compare) KT&C Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cglaeser 0 Posted June 30, 2011 every true day night I tested over the last year had noise issues older cameras never had in the same lighting conditions. My guess is manufacturers are cranking up the gain in a competition for the best low light specifications. Best, Christopher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted June 30, 2011 every true day night I tested over the last year had noise issues older cameras never had in the same lighting conditions. My guess is manufacturers are cranking up the gain in a competition for the best low light specifications. Best, Christopher And whats even more frustrating is I used some CNB monalisa box cameras side by side on a warehouse job with some really old existing samsung box cameras and the samsungs, even though many were bad and lenses dirty, blow away the CNB monalisas for quality. Plus the CNB Box cameras didnt even have a proper backfocus adjustment. Bottom line is, Im done with cheap as its not worth it, only cheap ones I will use now are maybe something like the CNB indoor domes or KT&C bullet cameras or perhaps the really cheap $30 Turret IR domes for small areas and poor people. Other than that its going to be samsung or panasonic, maybe even IP - or maybe I will just do something else, cant take the stress of a poor image anymore, Im half blind as it is already. BTW I have an EX30 here to install for a client .. that should be "fun"! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cglaeser 0 Posted June 30, 2011 Bottom line is, Im done with cheap as its not worth it, Me too, only I'm headed towards a different destination of MP IP. Best, Christopher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birdman Adam 0 Posted July 1, 2011 I have not experienced the huge amount of noise you are getting. Have experimented with a little 5w bulb with the same camera I posted above... Also, there is an option to set the day/night switching sensitivity. I think its like 'day/night sensitivity'. I found it works, but not super-great. EDIT...Photos: ~8:30PM, sunset ending. Camera is still in color, just barely... ~8:40PM, sun has set, camera switches to BW. Just remaining 'sky light' ~9:30PM. No light, except for dim moon. Too dark! This is the same for the other 8 cameras, except the 2 indoors switch over faster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted July 2, 2011 2 top cameras, cheapest on the market, bottom is the VBM at either 4mm approx or 2.8mm, managed to get it to switch to BW somehow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted July 2, 2011 Yes I always max out the DN switch over, seems to make no difference. The noise you get and whether it switches seems to depend on the camera placement. In general though as a DN camera coming from the perspective of having done 99.9% DN apps for 10 years, the camera is a PITA. It doesnt use a photocell to switch, thats the greatest issue. Also it is an AGC Day Night camera, thats the 2nd greatest issue. lots of light low light, lots of noise, wont switch to BW - on the rare occasion it switches Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEANHAWG 1 Posted July 3, 2011 CNB cams are good but as I said before, they got way overrated on this forum. I still recommend them every now and then though because they are solid cameras and got a good warranty, but to me they just aint all that plus a bag of chips. I have been testing some cameras with the Effio chip in them that I actually like better than the Monalisa, the particular one that I am testing sees alot better in low light than any other camera I have seen. I am curious to see if anyone else that has tested a camera with the sony effio has the same opinion as mine about their superb low light performance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted July 3, 2011 Im going to give the Samsung a try now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted July 11, 2011 BTW a tip for focusing these CNBs in the day time - set it to EI (you may now see it out of focus in part of the image), focus, then set it back to DC. It should now stay in focus at night across the whole view. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bantham1 0 Posted July 12, 2011 Rory, These Sammy's? SCO-2120R 1/4" 12x Zoom, IR LED, High Resolution Camera The SCO-2120R from Samsung features the W-V DSP chipset to deliver dvanced functionality such as 600TVL resolution, coaxial control compatibility, Samsung Super Dynamic Range (SSDR) and third generation Samsung Super Noise Reduction (SSNRIII), which eliminates image noise in low light conditions without creating motion blur or ghosting. The SCO-2120R is housed in a full weatherproof casing rated to IP66 with integrated sunshield and supplied with a mounting bracket that allows the camera to be installed either wall, surface or ceiling mount to ensure the required field of view can be obtained every time. Key Features: • 12x optical zoom (3.9 ~ 46mm) • Equipped with high performance Adaptive Illumination IR LEDs • 70m monitoring range • Integrated camera housing rated to IP66 SCO-2370 1/4" 37x Zoom, High Resolution Camera Key Features: • 1/4" Super HAD color CCD • W-V, latest generation of Winner DSP engine • Powerful 37x optical zoom (3.5 ~ 129.5mm) • 16x digital zoom • SSNRIII, Upgraded 2D+3D noise reduction technology • True Day & Night (ICR) • VPS (Virtual Progressive Scan) • High resolution: 600TV lines (Clr), 700TV lines (B/W) • Min. illum: 0.2Lux@F1.67 (Clr), 0.02Lux@F1.67 (B/W) • Privacy masking with 12 user programmable zones • Protection against water & dust (IP66), Sunshield • SSDR (Samsung Super Dynamic Range) • HLC (Highlight Compensation) • DIS (Digital Image Stabilization) • Motion detection • Coaxial & RS-485 control • 512x sens-up support • Multi-language OSD • S/N ratio of 52dB • Dual voltage: 24VAC / 12VDC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted July 12, 2011 http://www.samsungcctvusa.com/products/Products.aspx?CategoryID=1&SubCategoryID=2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bantham1 0 Posted July 12, 2011 I like the zoom range on the bullets. Wonder how the image compares to the domes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liveinxs 0 Posted July 12, 2011 BTW a tip for focusing these CNBs in the day time - set it to EI (you may now see it out of focus in part of the image), focus, then set it back to DC. It should now stay in focus at night across the whole view. what are the two settings, you are referring too, i guess you meant ESC and DC, i looked at the manuals that came with my VCMs, but it doesn't explain what the two settings are or what they do... i normally focus my VCMs, cameras, at dusk, just when the sun starts to set... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
