Multi-locale cloud-hosted NVR viable?

[Viktor 0]

We're trying to design a system for a local pizzeria chain.

 

The chairman wants to have both on-site and remote recording from a couple hundred cameras set up on 30-ish pizza joints, and remote and mobile viewing capability. They already have a system that uses a hodgepodge of IP cameras but it has been troublesome for them, especially since the DSL lines here in Mexico are somewhat unreliable. They also asked to have to buy as little hardware as possible, so a full server might be out of the question, and we'll have to stick to DSL.

 

We were thinking of setting up local systems hooking individual DVRs (embedded? PC-based?) and a set of the IP cameras they already own to a hub which in turn would connect and stream the video feed through a VPN to a cloud-hosted NVR so it can be viewed remotely in a sort of centralised off-site security room.

 

We don't have a lot of experience in the field, so we were wondering if this setup is viable, or even possible. Any input on brands, models and software that could help us achieve this will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Seedigital 0]

Geovision NVR can do it, it would be a hell of a job to setup but It can be done.

 

How many cameras do you have per site?

and whats the approx speed of the connection?

 

(we sell Geovision so i'm always going to reccomend it, but some of the guys here have some wicked software which could probably do it as well)

[Viktor 0]

I know, this job is gonna give me nightmares eventually...

 

5 cameras per site on average, 1 front access, 1 rear access/locker room, 1 counter/cashier, 1 kitchen, 1 parking spots. I still haven't got a full list of the camera brands or models. Local DSL is supposed to be 4Mbps in all restaurants, and is shared with POS and timekeeping software running on their network. I'm assuming the video feed will suck up most of the bandwidth, but I don't think the other software they run will suffer.

[tomcctv 187]

hi. with mix of analog and ip then you need a hybrid geovision will charge you for each ip camera used.

 

the small 8 way aver nano will do what you need 1 at each store and CMS at head office.

 

http://uk.surveillance.aver.com/product/embedded-hybrid-DVR-EH1008H-4-Nano

 

CMS is free

http://uk.surveillance.aver.com/product/CM3000

 

and you get all this free.

 

http://uk.surveillance.aver.com/series/software

[Viktor 0]

Compatibility with the gear they already own is a big issue, I'll have to go over GeoVision and AVer's supported hardware lists once I get the full inventory. I really don't know what to think about that local DVR, since all the cameras they own are IP, going for analog seems to complicate the matter further. Might as well go full IP, let's hope the expense for each camera's NVR license and growing cloudhosting costs doesn't scare the pizza guys too badly *dreads next meeting*.

 

Also, someone suggested Milestone's Xprotect. Choices, choices...

[tomcctv 187]

We were thinking of setting up local systems hooking individual DVRs (embedded? PC-based?)

 

 

 

this means analog .... so you just have ip at each store ??? well the aver will still do what you need

[thewireguys 3]

Your upload speed will be your problem if you want off site storage. 4Mbps is 4Mbps meaning if you have 100GB of video stored on the local NVR per day you will have to up load 100GB of video which will take 150 hours over a 1.5M T1.

[Campbell 0]

I don't recommend the offsite recording. As wireguys says above me, you'll kill any regular internet connection trying to do it. This doesn't factor in data costs etc.

 

You're best to have a local DVR/NVR which you can access with a CMS. This will enable him to live view/view recordings without the bandwidth issues.

[Soundy 1]

Don't forget that DSL is usually optimized for downstream-only, since your typical internet user only cares how fast the web pages come to him, not how fast things go out (plus, there are technical aspects that usually limit the upstream bandwidth). Their service may be 4Mbps downstream, but may not be anywhere near that upstream. POS, timesync, employee tracking, and other such office software will take very little bandwidth on their own.

[Viktor 0]

this means analog

Yeah, we were considering that because the chairman wants local recording... hybrid DVRs can mix and manage both IP and analog and then stream the data right?

 

Thanks for the advice people, you've given me a lot to chew on. Our goal was (is) to keep the system as simple and streamlined as possible running from a remote central surveillance console without having to get new server hardware. Bandwidth is indeed going to become one of the main issues.

[Soundy 1]

If they're REALLY insistent on this idea, maybe they should look at just streaming one or two cameras off-site, rather than all of them...

[Campbell 0]

this means analog

Yeah, we were considering that because the chairman wants local recording... hybrid DVRs can mix and manage both IP and analog and then stream the data right?

 

Thanks for the advice people, you've given me a lot to chew on. Our goal was (is) to keep the system as simple and streamlined as possible running from a remote central surveillance console without having to get new server hardware. Bandwidth is indeed going to become one of the main issues.

 

Doesnt have to be an analog solution. The local recorder will compress any stream.

[thewireguys 3]

if they insist on a hosted setup something like this might be your best fit. Keep in mind you will still need the upload bandwidth.

 

 

http://www.secure-i.com/

[NotoriousBRK 0]

Yup, Mike nailed it.

 

You need to do the "bandwidth math" first. Every problem is solvable for the right price, but full remote/cloud NVR is still a pipe dream.

 

You could store SOME video remotely, or you could store ALL video remotely at a really crappy resolution and quality level. You could possibly have something setup that offloads selected video from particular times or whatever.

 

But, getting decent video from 5 cameras is going to be a minimum of 6GB/day (h.264, 5fps, moderate compression, D1 resolution). There is no magic after-hours upload. To transfer 6GB of data in lets say 4.5 hours, you'd need a sustained upload speed of 3Mbps (and an ISP that didn't try to impose bandwidth caps on you, that's 186GB per month of just video uploads). Also, you'd need something in a centralized site that could handle incoming video from all these sites. That same 6GB/day is about 500Kbps of continuous streaming. 500Kbps x 30 sites = 15Mbps of raw bandwidth at the central site. Wholesale committed Ethernet handoffs in data centers in the US are averaging around $10-$12 per 1 Mb per month. So, you've got $150/mo *just* in bandwidth. Dedicated pipes not at centralized locations are averaging around $80-$150 per 1 Mb per month in most of the US. So you could get that 15Mbps pipe at your remote office for around $1500/mo.

 

Don't even think about trying to ride this on a cable modem at the main site. You're going to be moving data constantly, and exceeding their idea of what is a "fair" amount of data, so you'll end up getting throttled at unexpected times or even temporary blackouts.

 

You're probably better off keeping the main video at the stores and architecting a way for them to do live views at times and selectively export out the stuff they want to keep long-term.

[Seedigital 0]

Your not going to have high quality (high Res / high frames) camera footage with these kind of restrictions,

With 5 cams I doubt its going to be feasible

 

So think a bit outside the box, how many frames per second do you actually need? maybe 4-5 per camera.

You want to have enough to identify a threat, record general incidents you don't need a full 24fps per camera.

 

Record on motion/ Stream on motion it will reduce traffic, most DSL connections are not going to get 4mbps upload, maybe 1.5mbps upload depending so get smart with your bandwidth allocations.

 

The cameras generally have a few seconds worth of buffer / pre record so you could use detection at site linked to the IP cameras I/O (most of them have some form of single port I/O) put a beam on the door, when people enter take like a 4-8 second clip, Same as the car park get a PIR out there and record/stream on an activation.

 

You got a hell of a challenge! but you can make it work!

[thewireguys 3]

Seedigital: How many systems do you know if that can "stream on motion"

[Seedigital 0]

Geovision cameras can by default, You set them to send compressed attachments to a server on an I/O activation and I've been able to get it to work with A couple of Messoa cameras as well.

 

I don't know what he is running its all ideas at the moment

[Seedigital 0]

Oh and the geovision ones can on motion as well, but your right not a lot of brands do it.

[ak357 0]

Geovision cameras can by default, You set them to send compressed attachments to a server on an I/O activation and I've been able to get it to work with A couple of Messoa cameras as well.

 

I don't know what he is running its all ideas at the moment

I believe the ? was about VMS not about camera

[thewireguys 3]

Geovision cameras can by default, You set them to send compressed attachments to a server on an I/O activation and I've been able to get it to work with A couple of Messoa cameras as well.

 

I don't know what he is running its all ideas at the moment

 

Lots of cameras can send a file on motion. But how many do you know can stream video to a VMS only when motion is detected.

[Seedigital 0]

VMS, Like through a 3g connection? None that I know of I thought he was using ADSL

[joseph.chen0312 0]

Hello.

 

Now you are really facing nightmare and it is not esay to shoot. I agree with all opinion for take hybrid DVR if the client insist to plug IP cam (you better check the compliance brand list not all IP camera compatible even for milestone).

 

If only equipped analog camera I think 5 pices is ok though 4M bandwidth and then pitch the data to the central room but you better looking for high calibre VMS with matrix function to project all video stream to TV wall. Of course if the boss needs to live monitoring via mobile deviceI think it is indespensable for investing to build up above 100M bandwidth to gobble those data.

[Silvia20 0]

Thanks for good stuff insert well.i also talk about Cloud hosting.Cloud hosting, also called clustered hosting, is a web hosting service that is delivered from a network of connected servers. The servers are not necessarily in the same data center; in fact they are more likely located in data centers scattered around the globe.

 

Virtual Server Hosting

[SectorSecurity 0]

Your upload speed will be your problem if you want off site storage. 4Mbps is 4Mbps meaning if you have 100GB of video stored on the local NVR per day you will have to up load 100GB of video which will take 150 hours over a 1.5M T1.

 

 

Remember 4MB is most likely refering to your download speed, not your upload speed.

[Soundy 1]

My internet speed at home is supposed to be 50Mbps down, 5Mbps up... at the moment, speedtest.net is telling me I'm getting 7.55Mbps down and 2.69Mbps up (maybe the kid is downloading some torrents?). When you're on residential broadband, your speed won't always been the maximum that the "Up To" claims promise.