Balun haters gonna hate...

[Secerator 0]

I'm wondering the same. I have seen two version of the cheaper ones.

One says clearly that it doesn't have the video balun function. (the black one).

 

Have you used any of these? Planning to run 1-2 cameras less than 150' with these, will they work good or should I buy the $19 ones?.

 

 

 

 

 

Also found these:

1. Full-motion CCTV video at distances up to 330m when used with any passive transceiver

2. Up to 330m (1089feet)with any active UTP video receiver

3. Tool-less,installs in seconds,no need to strip the wires

4. NTSC,PAL,and SECAM video formats

5. No power required

6. 60 dB crosstalk and noise immunity

7. Compact size and easy installation

[rory 0]

[edit: personal insults removed. rory will be back after taking a few days to chill out]

[rory 0]

[tomcctv 187]

1. Full-motion CCTV video at distances up to 330m when used with any passive transceiver

2. Up to 330m (1089feet)with any active UTP video receiver

3. Tool-less,installs in seconds,no need to strip the wires

4. NTSC,PAL,and SECAM video formats

5. No power required

6. 60 dB crosstalk and noise immunity

7. Compact size and easy installation

 

 

 

 

we have these in stock very good baluns. very good at protecting the outter cover of the cat5 better than just the pair.

 

 

but just looking at your advert listings. its just a company that sells and know nothing PART 4 4. NTSC,PAL,and SECAM video formats

 

nothing to do with using baluns

[rory 0]

Here is the perfect DVR to go along with those cheap baluns

[store link removed - you know the rules, big guy]

 

and here is the perfect camera suited for those cheap baluns

[for real]

 

Got get it guys, now you can sell your clients a real system

[tomcctv 187]

Sorry homeboy, but you and Soundboy posting rubbish is not my problem.

 

 

 

rory the name is TOM. listen it all started as a good thead infact its a good thread all about why baluns are used and why.

 

to be honest the post needs editing and going back to original no price talk no coax talk its a thead about baluns.

 

infact its more than just about baluns its what you can do with them not just video so yes it should be put back to its original content all the crap taken out and just let the post be here to educate everyone

[Secerator 0]

1. Full-motion CCTV video at distances up to 330m when used with any passive transceiver

2. Up to 330m (1089feet)with any active UTP video receiver

3. Tool-less,installs in seconds,no need to strip the wires

4. NTSC,PAL,and SECAM video formats

5. No power required

6. 60 dB crosstalk and noise immunity

7. Compact size and easy installation

 

 

 

 

we have these in stock very good baluns. very good at protecting the outter cover of the cat5 better than just the pair.

 

 

but just looking at your advert listings. its just a company that sells and know nothing PART 4 4. NTSC,PAL,and SECAM video formats

 

nothing to do with using baluns

 

I found that on ebay from Hong Kong or China, can't remember exactly. I ordered a pair for $6 just to see what they are about. I know that it will take about 2 weeks to get them.

 

I don't really understand why you guys think that it makes sense to not show the prices to the public on this forum.

I would say this: if someone would hire you to do a cctv install, then they are not the type of person to search forums for information, the ones that read this forum are either installers or DIY'rs like me who would not hire a pro to do the install.

You can find low prices with a simple google search. And this forum is much more valuable with price info than without.

Just get past this "hide price info". it won't help your business, free talk about prices may actually help it. It may damage it if you actually sell these to other forum members.

 

I'm an IT guy, so this diy cctv stuff for my personal use is not that hard to understand. I was just surprised to see how many of you "the cctv pros" think that not talking about the prices will detter "your customers" from finding the prices on the internet. You may still get better discounts if buying in bulk, but amazon, ebay, 123.. anyone can buy..

 

Excuse my English and let's go back to baluns .

[Seedigital 0]

Baluns are awesome, After reading the forum nobody has actually explained what they do and why they are important.

 

They essentially match impedance on pairs (Cat 5,6 speaker wire whatever) to that of coax.

You can even get ground loop isolating baluns (my personal fav), Low Loss Baluns and other flavours as well.

 

Advantages! you can run 4 cameras over Cat5/e/6 because it has 4 pairs, really good for long runs with an active receiver.

 

You can power the cameras locally, run the cat back to the DVR and hey presto! no need to run 4 long coax cables.

 

I personally don't recommend power over Cat, the wires are not really thick enough to supply cameras which are going to drain a lot of juice (IR or PTZ),

I'd find yourself a cheap supplier of 12v dc or 24AC power supplies and run with those over separate cables to the camera.

 

 

In terms of price standard baluns are cheap, $2-4 us each depending on supplier, Low loss are a lot more expensive at the $10 to 15 us each.

Good Cat5e/6 is pretty reasonable (at least in NZ), Truth be Told DIY CCTV around the house is reasonably cheap and easy the net provides all the info you need.

 

That said, at the end of the day DIY's sometimes hit a wall whether its poor equipment, lack of knowledge or lack of skill. When you pay an installer you pay for service.

You normally get a year or two guarantee/warranty and you have a single point of contact for any issues that you may get.

Over and above that (as long as you get a good installer) you can rest in the piece of mind that its going to work when an event happens, and your not going to have some half assed fire risk of wiring.

 

DIYer's go for it, give it a shot its a good hobby and you can get decent results for inexpensive equipment.

 

Only a fool sells on price, and you know what there is always somebody who can do it cheaper.

I'm all about finding bang for your bucks, you don't always need high end, or mid range in some places, but in others you do.

Don't buy cheap knock off exterior housings with next too no seals in them, they kill cameras! (and cameras are expensive)

Don't buy cheap cabling (or coax and BNC's), or you'll end up with a crap picture.

 

Ok rant has gone a bit off topic now.

 

Baluns are cool, active receivers are cool.

[rory 0]

cameras over Cat5/e/6 because it has 4 pairs, really good for long runs with an active receiver.

And when that feeble little cat5 cable gets knicked, you loose 4 cameras.

Great

[rory 0]

rory the name is TOM. listen it all started as a good thead infact its a good thread all about why baluns are used and why.

 

to be honest the post needs editing and going back to original no price talk no coax talk its a thead about baluns.

 

infact its more than just about baluns its what you can do with them not just video so yes it should be put back to its original content all the crap taken out and just let the post be here to educate everyone

Actually dawg the thread was about the differences between cat5 cabling and coax, in fact it was never about baluns.

 

But you know, whateva.

[Soundy 1]

About 50 posts ago, there was a mention of some connectors that looked to be just adapters and not Baluns. Isnt that what a passive balun really is? Just a glorified adapter? Or is there something else that makes it a "real" Balun.

The name itself - "BALanced/UNbalanced" indicates there's more to it than that. In its simplest form, it uses a matching transformer to match impedences. I posted a link a page or two back to one design: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6917255.html

 

Here's another design - active and amplified:

 

 

This one actually shows the schematic on the housing:

 

 

Another basic passive design:

 

[SEANHAWG 1]

Well I'll be dog-gonned. I learn something new every day.

[Soundy 1]

Those little devices you use (or used, if you're old enough to remember) to connect CATV cable to twinlead antenna wire... those are baluns too, of a very similar design (just matching 300 ohm twinlead to 50 ohm RG-58).

 

 

(Edit: see here for a picture of the innards: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=885475&postcount=146)

 

So "balun" technology is nothing new... just its implementation for baseband video that's a more recent development.

 

Balanced lines aren't new either - as I noted in the original thread, professional audio has used balanced signals for decades, especially for low-voltage sources like microphones, where noise rejection is crucial.

[Seedigital 0]

cameras over Cat5/e/6 because it has 4 pairs, really good for long runs with an active receiver.

And when that feeble little cat5 cable gets knicked, you loose 4 cameras.

Great

 

You don't use conduit?

[Seedigital 0]

Also a little off topic,

But much like any cabling, you use the right cable for the job, and if its in an area which damage is probable you put it through something to protect it.

 

We have sites which forklifts operate all the time, so if we can't get concrete cut to lay the cable (generally entrances to warehouses or what not) then we lay down protective rubber/Polyethylene strips to protect the cabling.

 

Don't get me wrong Rory you seem really defensive about Coax, and that's fine it has its place.

If your trying to run 20 or so cameras back to a DVR between buildings, A concrete cut with a conduit and a draw wire, with 5 CAT6 cables is a hell of a lot cleaner than trying to run 20 Coax cables.

 

Its more economical, It has an upgrade path to IP if the customer wants to upgrade later on, you can run POS data or rs485 to PTZ's Run and I/O for detection for Alarms or I/O on the DVR's.

 

Yes Coax has its place if your running purely cameras, and you can get some cool adaptors which allow for a lot of different applications, You can run 10mbps data down coax as well with not to much equipment.

 

In a CAT5e/6 vs Coax argument, It depends on the job as to what is best.

 

For our applications CAT6 all the way we need the versatility

[jeromephone 6]

Is that cat 5e solid copper and is the coating the type of PVC.. Is it UL rated? It seems hard for me to believe it would pass speck for data at that price. We have seen a lot of alumin clad copper which in some areas will get you in trouble with local building codes.

[Secerator 0]

Wire Construction: CCA - Copper Clad Aluminum.

Looks like it's not solid cooper... didn't pay attention to that..

 

Here is info from the listing:

This Compact Pull Box of 1000FT UTP CAT5E Cable is ideal for both network installers

and computer enthusiast alike.

This 1000FT roll of cable is made from four 24 AWG twisted pair conductors

to support 1Gbps transfer rates and has durable PVC jacket.

Features:

Cat5e - 4 Solid UTP Unshielded Twisted Pair.

Meets or exceeds Category 5e specifications.

Conductor: 24AWG - 0.5mm in diameter.

Wire Construction: CCA - Copper Clad Aluminum.

Gigabit Network Ready.

Voice and Data communications.

Certified Transfer Rate: 10/100/1000 mbps (1000Base-T Gigabit).

Auction Included:

1 x CAT5E Cable.

Length: 1000 feet / 305m.

Pull Box.

Lifetime Warranty.

 

 

I hope it will work good. Tested the whole roll with a UTP tester and everything seems fine for the entire 1000ft.. not sure if I will run into problems with it not being entirely made of cooper (just cooper coated). Probably the longest cable that I will need will be around 120ft... I said in a previously post that ebay is good as long as you know what you're buying. I must admit that this time I didn't know exactly what I'm buying. Just went with sellers feedback on a few thousands of the same product sold..

Like someone else said: everyday learning something new.

 

Edit: Will return it and buy some cat6 (good one).

[SectorSecurity 0]

I thought the whole purpose of using cat5 and baluns was to push past the distance limitation of coax? I thought coax was good out to about 450ft while cat5 can surpass that?

[Soundy 1]

I thought the whole purpose of using cat5 and baluns was to push past the distance limitation of coax? I thought coax was good out to about 450ft while cat5 can surpass that?

That's *A* reason... certainly not the only one.

[koolmer 0]

1.

There is NO quality difference between cat5 with baluns and RG59 in regards to image quality. Everybody saying otherwise must have done something wrong on the installation or is not using real baluns. I have an install where cameras close to the DVR use RG59 and others (up to 250m away) use baluns. The greatest distance that I managed with a passive balun is about 220 meters. There is NO quality difference visible between the ones that are close (RG59) and the ones that are far away (cat5).

 

2.

Baluns are cheaper as the distance of the camera increases. This is simply for the reason that cat5 is cheaper than RG59 (at least in Europe). Additionally when distances are great, it doesn't make sense to transmit power along the video signal and I in several occasions I actually used all 4 pairs of the cat5 for cameras over larger distance.

 

3.

Active baluns can extent the distance further than possible with RG59. Actually I only used an active receiver once. The camera is about 250 m away from the DVR. Passive balun signal was poor with lines and a washed out picture. The cat5 runs along some 230VAC cable for 10m (no other way). Maybe without that high voltage cable the picture would be better. Anyhow, the active receiver improved the picture, but it is not perfect.

 

 

Baluns definately have uses and I use them frequently. On small installs they don't always make sense. On large scale installs I would always recommend them. The additional benefit of cat5 is of course the possibility to upgrade to IP cameras. One downside of baluns is the ground loop problem. This happens on many poorly planned installs that use baluns. The simplest way to avoid that is to use separate power supplies for each camera.

[rory 0]

I thought coax was good out to about 450ft while cat5 can surpass that?

1200-1500 feet (color-bw).

[rory 0]

You don't use conduit?

Hardly any clients would pay for conduit in a drop ceiling.

Outdoors though, certainly.

[rory 0]

Don't get me wrong Rory you seem really defensive about Coax

Far from it, this was never my thread.

I just replied with facts.

[koolmer 0]

I thought coax was good out to about 450ft while cat5 can surpass that?

1200-1500 feet (color-bw).

 

I this actually realistic or theoretical? I never used RG-59 for such distances.

[rory 0]

I thought coax was good out to about 450ft while cat5 can surpass that?

1200-1500 feet (color-bw).

 

I this actually realistic or theoretical? I never used RG-59 for such distances.

realistic and proven.