mikeek3 0 Posted February 24, 2013 ok guys sorry for not posting I'm loving the ideas but not the hate, here is the thing i got a quote from avigilon for 20 ip 2mp camera NVR server etc. it's costing me alot 55000US.. My other main issue is that my technicians aren't really that good with IP systems that's why i am trying to learn about it. what will be my best option if i want to do it in parts maybe all tables first then cage and slots. Which software can i use that doesn't require me to buy Licenses for cameras. Our setup right now is 10 dvr's recording at D1 resolution each having 16 ch cards in them and it is viewed on 11 32inch flat screen TV. I was thinking of using a similar layout. what you guys think.. Two screens 50inch maybe For just the 8 tables, 8,, 2mp camera each and do 1 server for recording those 8 cameras. but can i get to view the cameras and still do a playback from this setup.HOW? for slots i'll use 2 servers each for recording 32 cameras each, cashiers cage on another server maybe 32 cameras also that will also cover soft count areas etc. and 1 for the outside of the casino, parking lots etc. WHAT IS MY BEST OPTION FOR CAMERAS AND SOFTWARE THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE THIS. I COULD DO THIS AND AS THE TECHNOLOGY IMPROVES IN TRINIDAD WE CAN THEN UPGRADE TO BETTER MANAGEMENT SOFTWARE AS WE ONLY DO REPLAYS AND ANYTHING NEEDED IS SAVED AND EXPORTED ONTO MY INCIDENT'S SYSTEM. I HAVE TRIED THE ONLY IP THAT I CAN BUY LOCALLY IT'S A BOX CAMERA FRO IVEIWTECH AND IT SHOWS GOOD COMPARED TO D1 ITS A 2 MP AND THE SOFTWARE CAME WITH IT AND WORKS GREAT. IPROTECT IS THE NAME OF IT. I CAN VIEW 25 AT A TIME SO WILL I BE ABLE TO USE THE SOFWARE THAT COMES WITH THE CAMERA FOR THIS SETUP OR NOT? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 24, 2013 Wow for the record I didn't bring up Avigilon but I would be more then happy to help you with the system design. Please PM me if you are interested. Yes with Avigilon it is very easy to view live and recorded video on the same monitor. You can even view live and recorded of the same camera at the same time. Did you ever see a demo of the Avigilon solution? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 24, 2013 Did you ever see a demo of the Avigilon solution?I have. Not to my liking but I will admit it is easy to learn and use and would probably be suitable as an entry-level casino VMS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 24, 2013 mikeek3, Table games and cash handling/counting are the two or three most critical areas and the ones where problems are most likely to occur. That's where your first priorities should be. Slots would be second; back-of-house third and any outdoor cameras could be last priority. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeek3 0 Posted February 25, 2013 If im going with the avigilon 2mp for tables and cage, please tell me which server/ software should i use,and which switch..etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 25, 2013 If you are going to use the Avigilon 2MP camera it makes sense to use Avigilon's VMS. This will make setting up your system much faster and basically plug and play. Also if you have a support issue there is only one manufacture contact and they have 24/7 free phone support if you need them. Server wise you can go with anyone you want as long it meets Avigilon software requirements. Most of the time we are using Avgilon servers which come rack ready again reducing our time working configuring servers. If this is your first time with IP, Avigilon is very easy to work with so you can spend more time using the system and less time install it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 25, 2013 If im going with the avigilon 2mp for tables and cage, please tell me which server/ software should i use,and which switch..etcYou don't need 2MP for standard half-moon-shaped 6 foot diameter gaming tables. That's overkill. 1280x960 or 720P is sufficient, and will save you storage costs. For 8 foot poker tables, 1080P would be a good choice. For the cage, depending on how many positions and the angle to the cash drawers, 720P would likely also be sufficient. You should be able to see inside the cash drawers and the entire counter depth so you can't locate the cameras at too much of an angle left or right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mc4c 0 Posted February 25, 2013 If im going with the avigilon 2mp for tables and cage, please tell me which server/ software should i use,and which switch..etc I would stick with Avigilon for your software needs if your going to go with their cameras. If your budget allows go for the Enterprise version of the software and add a redundant server. What are your storage requirements, how long do you need to keep footage for at full frame rate and resolution and how many cameras? Are you going to utilize data aging so that after a certain period of time you start dropping frames and re-compressing footage to allow for longer storage? Once you've figured that out then you can build your server accordingly. As for the switches you have many different options depending upon your needs, the total amount of planned cameras, servers, and storage arrays as well as POE requirements so I wouldn't decide on a switch until you have those items sorted out first. PM me if you would like to go into this a bit further then can be discussed on the forum. I can also get you the best possible pricing on Avigilon if your planing to go that route. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ak357 0 Posted February 26, 2013 If im going with the avigilon 2mp for tables and cage, please tell me which server/ software should i use,and which switch..etc PM me if you would like to go into this a bit further then can be discussed on the forum. I can also get you the best possible pricing on Avigilon if your planing to go that route. Another Avigilon partner ! welcome to the Forum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 0 Posted February 26, 2013 Let me give you the best advice so far: Find someone local to deal with.... 1. I would say most, if not all of the people in this thread have never worked in a gaming setting. 2. If they have, they would of walked away from the thread when you said your budget was 15K USD. 3. No one is going to ship anything from North to South America for anything even remotely close to your budget. Shipping on *JUST* 10 cameras was 735 from CA-USA to Arouca. 4. Looking over Trinidads extensive gambling laws I find it odd that there is no requirements for cctv. There typically aren't 56 page Acts on gambling with out some type of enforcement. Call the local guy who has done all the work at every other casino in the area and contract him to get the work done... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mc4c 0 Posted February 26, 2013 If im going with the avigilon 2mp for tables and cage, please tell me which server/ software should i use,and which switch..etc PM me if you would like to go into this a bit further then can be discussed on the forum. I can also get you the best possible pricing on Avigilon if your planing to go that route. Another Avigilon partner ! welcome to the Forum Thanks! Let me give you the best advice so far: Find someone local to deal with.... 1. I would say most, if not all of the people in this thread have never worked in a gaming setting. 2. If they have, they would of walked away from the thread when you said your budget was 15K USD. 3. No one is going to ship anything from North to South America for anything even remotely close to your budget. Shipping on *JUST* 10 cameras was 735 from CA-USA to Arouca. 4. Looking over Trinidads extensive gambling laws I find it odd that there is no requirements for cctv. There typically aren't 56 page Acts on gambling with out some type of enforcement. Call the local guy who has done all the work at every other casino in the area and contract him to get the work done... I do believe in using experienced local integrators, especially for a gaming environment. With that being said, he asked us for our advise, which we gave him to the best of our ability. His budget is $15,000 USD a month, not total. And shipping is not that expensive, you probably didn't use a Air Freight broker who would of shipped the items on a commercial airline, I've shipped an entire pallet to the middle east for less then $500. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 26, 2013 1. I would say most, if not all of the people in this thread have never worked in a gaming setting.Speak for yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 187 Posted February 26, 2013 I was called to a job yesterday and I am stumped on what to do. I have searched the internet over and can not find a solution so I decided to post here. MMMMMMMMMMMM . Let me give you the best advice so far: Find someone local to deal with.... DID you get help in one of your posts or did you find someone local ??? 1. I would say most, if not all of the people in this thread have never worked in a gaming setting. is that just a guess ??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 0 Posted February 26, 2013 I was called to a job yesterday and I am stumped on what to do. I have searched the internet over and can not find a solution so I decided to post here. MMMMMMMMMMMM . Let me give you the best advice so far: Find someone local to deal with.... DID you get help in one of your posts or did you find someone local ??? 1. I would say most, if not all of the people in this thread have never worked in a gaming setting. is that just a guess ??? I work for a manufacturer.. As you decided to search my posts I think you would of Figured that out. I was searching the internet for information on the competition, I don't think calling the local guy really applies in that situation... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 26, 2013 1. I would say most, if not all of the people in this thread have never worked in a gaming setting. Speak for yourself. I work for a manufacturer.. Thanks. Exactly what I thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 0 Posted February 26, 2013 1. I would say most, if not all of the people in this thread have never worked in a gaming setting. Speak for yourself. I work for a manufacturer.. Thanks. Exactly what I thought. But I still work for a manufacturer that has more systems in casino's than any other manufacturer " title="Applause" /> But common, this isn't the place for gaming advice.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 187 Posted February 26, 2013 But I still work for a manufacturer that has more systems in casino's than any other manufacturer Name the manfacturer........ if thats what the tread owner needs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 26, 2013 1. I would say most, if not all of the people in this thread have never worked in a gaming setting. Speak for yourself. I work for a manufacturer.. Thanks. Exactly what I thought. But I still work for a manufacturer that has more systems in casino's than any other manufacturer " title="Applause" /> That and $1.00 won't buy coffee at a Starbucks. There are a many VMS systems installed in casinos that, IMO, aren't worth the price of one Grande Pike Place Roast. And number of installs means doo doo. I call it "The Blind Leading the Blind Effect". Among the "losers": Pelco Endura, NiceVision, Synectics, Cisco Sypix, American Dynamics Intellex, Sanyo DSR-M8xx "Casino DVR" and anything from Honeywell. And I'm not thrilled with Genetec Security Center 5.x and think Avigilon is only suitable for smaller venues. It is especially problematic with analog PTZs, since Avigilon's encoders introduce 500(+) milliseconds of latency and have trouble with Pelco "P" protocol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 26, 2013 Among the "losers": Pelco Endura, NiceVision, Synectics, Cisco Sypix, American Dynamics Intellex, Sanyo DSR-M8xx "Casino DVR" and anything from Honeywell. And I'm not thrilled with Genetec Security Center 5.x and think Avigilon is only suitable for smaller venues. It is especially problematic with analog PTZs, since Avigilon's encoders introduce 500(+) milliseconds of latency and have trouble with Pelco "P" protocol. I have customers with encoders and PTZ cameras using Pelco "d" protocol without the issues. I also setup a test the other night testing a Axis M7001 VS Avigilon encoder and there was no where near 500+ milliseconds of latency. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 0 Posted February 26, 2013 That and $1.00 won't buy coffee at a Starbucks. There are a many VMS systems installed in casinos that, IMO, aren't worth the price of one Grande Pike Place Roast. And number of installs means doo doo. I call it "The Blind Leading the Blind Effect". Among the "losers": Pelco Endura, NiceVision, Synectics, Cisco Sypix, American Dynamics Intellex, Sanyo DSR-M8xx "Casino DVR" and anything from Honeywell. And I'm not thrilled with Genetec Security Center 5.x and think Avigilon is only suitable for smaller venues. It is especially problematic with analog PTZs, since Avigilon's encoders introduce 500(+) milliseconds of latency and have trouble with Pelco "P" protocol. Most Casino's I have dealt with are stuck in their old ways and do not see any benefit in moving to IP. They have the mentality "If I want to see that, I simply put up another camera that focuses specifically on it". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) I have customers with encoders and PTZ cameras using Pelco "d" protocol without the issues. I also setup a test the other night testing a Axis M7001 VS Avigilon encoder and there was no where near 500+ milliseconds of latency. Did I say "D"? 500ms in h.264. 560ms in MJPEG. Worst latency of any system tested. Edited February 26, 2013 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 26, 2013 But I still work for a manufacturer that has more systems in casino's than any other manufacturer " title="Applause" /> Must be very impressive if you hide the manufacture's name. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 26, 2013 I have customers with encoders and PTZ cameras using Pelco "d" protocol without the issues. I also setup a test the other night testing a Axis M7001 VS Avigilon encoder and there was no where near 500+ milliseconds of latency. Did I say "D"? 500ms in h.264. 560ms in MJPEG. Worst latency of any system tested. How did you test it? I want to recreate what you did. Last night I tested the Axis vs Avigilon both in H.264 and connected to Avigilon's VMS and I saw nothing close to 500ms. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 26, 2013 Connect any analog camera to the encoder. Aim the camera at a time display in milliseconds (we used the stopwatch on a cell phone). Put that camera up on a screen "live" and point another camera at both the screen and the stopwatch simultaneously (you have to hold the stopwatch near the screen) and record that. Play back the result, pause, and note the difference between the stopwatch and the screen shot of the stopwatch through the VMS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 26, 2013 Connect any analog camera to the encoder. Aim the camera at a time display in milliseconds (we used the stopwatch on a cell phone). Put that camera up on a screen "live" and point another camera at both the screen and the stopwatch simultaneously (you have to hold the stopwatch near the screen) and record that. Play back the result, pause, and note the difference between the stopwatch and the screen shot of the stopwatch through the VMS. Thanks I have a couple of different manufactures encoders laying around that I will test the same way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
