IR LED's vs. eye damage?

[videoVIP 0]

Just wondering out loud here...please see my other post re: baby monitoring for clarification:

 

Can IR LED's damage eyesight? I installed a day/night camera with 18 IR's on the other side of the room (appx. 10') from the child's crib. Now I'm worrying that the kid can get eye damage from staring at the IR's all night. Not sure my liability insurance covers this...

 

Yes/No???

[tomcctv 187]

Just wondering out loud here...please see my other post re: baby monitoring for clarification:

 

Can IR LED's damage eyesight? I installed a day/night camera with 18 IR's on the other side of the room (appx. 10') from the child's crib. Now I'm worrying that the kid can get eye damage from staring at the IR's all night. Not sure my liability insurance covers this...

 

Yes/No???

 

 

no you never put ir in a babies room ...... camera and night light is best. or seperate camera and IR fitted at floor level ....... but never into a babies eyes.

[videoVIP 0]

no you never put ir in a babies room ...... camera and night light is best. or seperate camera and IR fitted at floor level ....... but never into a babies eyes.

 

Uh-oh...do you have anything supporting this? Client doesn't want to use a night-light in kid's room.

[videoVIP 0]

Found this:

 

Is infrared illumination harmful to infants?

I have a cctv system in and around my home and want to add an infrared illuminator to my newborn baby's room to be able to see her in her bed at night. I am wondering if this infrared light is harmful to her. Since this is a sensitive matter, guesses are not really appreciated.

 

Answer

Low-level radiation of that nature isn't any more harmful than being in a room with an incandescent light.

 

Source(s): I'm a spectroscopist.

[mike_va 0]

You could look at the Osram safety guidelines, it shows you need a fair amount of IR power to get into the safety levels. That is what they say anyway.

 

http://catalog.osram-os.com/catalogue/catalogue.do?act=showBookmark&favOid=00000007000098c70001003a

 

Application Note Eye Safety

This application note describes the possible hazards of infrared LEDs (IREDs) used for lamp applications

[videoVIP 0]

You could look at the Osram safety guidelines, it shows you need a fair amount of IR power to get into the safety levels. That is what they say anyway.

 

http://catalog.osram-os.com/catalogue/catalogue.do?act=showBookmark&favOid=00000007000098c70001003a

 

Application Note Eye Safety

This application note describes the possible hazards of infrared LEDs (IREDs) used for lamp applications

 

Wow! Good stuff there. A little over my head, though.

 

I'll advise the clients to put welding goggles on the kid just to be safe.

[mike_va 0]

You could look at the Osram safety guidelines, it shows you need a fair amount of IR power to get into the safety levels. That is what they say anyway.

 

http://catalog.osram-os.com/catalogue/catalogue.do?act=showBookmark&favOid=00000007000098c70001003a

 

Application Note Eye Safety

This application note describes the possible hazards of infrared LEDs (IREDs) used for lamp applications

 

Wow! Good stuff there. A little over my head, though.

 

I'll advise the clients to put welding goggles on the kid just to be safe.

Look at it this way, they needed to use lenses and a fair amount of power (I think around 15W or so for one of the cases) to get into trouble. The little LED's in bullet cameras have a lot less output, and are maybe run at a watt or two total.

 

The new surface mount IR puts out an impressive amount, compared to the crappy little LED's in bullets.

 

Now for some perspective look at the old Bosch Derwent docs for the halogen, lotta concentrated power and they had some distance guidelines. Still for the amount of power consumed not that much output.

[tomcctv 187]

Answer

Low-level radiation of that nature isn't any more harmful than being in a room with an incandescent light.

 

 

just crap. thought we were talking about IR into a babies eye.

 

 

another test you can do. is set a IR camera up switch off the lights and look into the ir. you may last 5 to 10 mins either way your eyes will hurt.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Well I guess both my grandsons will end up blind. Both spent the first 2 years of their life with an IR camera in their bedroom. Ever had a sleep study done?

[videoVIP 0]

Problem solved...

 

[ssmith10pn 0]

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[nDAlk90 0]

Well I guess both my grandsons will end up blind. Both spent the first 2 years of their life with an IR camera in their bedroom.

 

Don't joke like that.

 

Ever had a sleep study done?

 

One night of exposure to adults is one thing. Children who are developing are different then adults agree?

 

Anyway without a long term study its difficult to say with a high degree of certainty how safe or unsafe long-term exposure of ir leds are to the eyes of children.

 

Microwaves and smoking were once thought perfectly safe... Now we know better...

[ssmith10pn 0]

Well I guess both my grandsons will end up blind. Both spent the first 2 years of their life with an IR camera in their bedroom.

 

Don't joke like that.

 

Ever had a sleep study done?

 

One night of exposure to adults is one thing. Children who are developing are different then adults agree?

 

Anyway without a long term study its difficult to say with a high degree of certainty how safe or unsafe long-term exposure of ir leds are to the eyes of children.

 

Microwaves and smoking were once thought perfectly safe... Now we know better...

 

I wasn't joking. They both had IR cameras in their rooms from the day they were born and they are fine. It's freakin light.

No if you stare into a 850nm Fiber optic Multimode Gbic you would probably have a problem.

[SEANHAWG 1]

Whats wrong with smoking a microwave?

[MaxIcon 0]

IR is just light, and like light, it's damaging at too high an intensity. Your iris doesn't respond to it, since it's not sensitive to that wavelength, so you don't have the auto protective mechanism that you have to visible light.

 

So, the key is how much power the eyes are exposed to. Like with visible light, too much can damage the eyes, small amounts are no big deal. Your eyes are exposed to IR all day, every day, especially in the sunlight, but the power levels are low enough that you don't get damage (UV is riskier, due to the higher energy of the short wavelengths). Electric space heaters, for instance, give off large amounts of IR by design, and they're fine to put in a baby's room as long as nothing catches fire.

 

It's not easy to know how much power an IR LED puts out. Most give specs for input power (though rarely on cameras, but you can measure it), but only a fraction of that is turned into actual IR output power, and that fraction depends on the LED design and model. After it leaves the LED, the power drops with the square of distance, so moving it twice as far away reduces the incident power by 4x.

 

If you wanted to be completely 100% sure, you'd avoid anything that could cause a risk to a baby's health (including that space heater). If you wanted to use an IR camera and reduce the risks, you could reduce the IR power output by putting a resistor inline with the IR assembly to reduce output (and illumination). Most IR cams have more than enough output for a baby's room, but you'd really have to look at it on a case by case basis.

 

Another option would be to disable the on-camera IR and use an inexpensive external illuminator, pointed at the ceiling, so that the reflected IR illuminate's the baby's area. This would diffuse the IR quite a bit and avoid the risk of the baby staring directly at the IR LEDs for hours at a time (not likely, but everything's possible), and can give pretty good illumination, depending on the room size. This requires a lot less engineering than reducing the built-in IR.

 

YMMV, as always.

[Mrcarcrazy 0]

Being in the healthcare profession, I will say there is no real evidence that I've been able to find that says IR=good/bad....but I can also say I won't install an IR camera in my baby room. I'm going w/ a True Day/night camera. and keeping the door cracked to let in some light.

 

My thoughts on this are "why add something that there is little data on the consequences of?" With my child I'll err on the side of caution.

[jetfxr27 0]

Being in the healthcare profession, I will say there is no real evidence that I've been able to find that says IR=good/bad....but I can also say I won't install an IR camera in my baby room. I'm going w/ a True Day/night camera. and keeping the door cracked to let in some light.

 

My thoughts on this are "why add something that there is little data on the consequences of?" With my child I'll err on the side of caution.

 

The thought about the IR light emitting from other items such as heaters, and say sunlight during the day. How does that compare to the IR emitting from a camera? If my baby stares at a heater for to long will that have an ill effect? Or if he stares at a covered window that has day light creeping around it, will that harm him?

[mike_va 0]

The difference there is that there is light that causes the iris to contract

[shockwave199 0]

If they must, why not get an IR camera where you can adjust the IR strength? Or, a smart IR camera. At the very least, I'd only go with a smart IR camera. Certainly not one with IR rated for 100'! But I'd opt for a nightlight/no IR myself, mostly because it'd give a better picture- if the camera is decent. Far as IR being harmful, all I can say is that babies and infants don't fixate on ANYTHING for longer than a couple of seconds- even their toys! They are head bobblers! It's doubtful a baby would stare at IR for extended periods just because, and since they are human, light that's bothersome will make them look away regardless. Babies are far from dumb, and quick studies about what makes them feel good or bad.

[mike_va 0]

If they must, why not get an IR camera where you can adjust the IR strength? Or, a smart IR camera. At the very least, I'd only go with a smart IR camera.

Smart IR works by adjusting the exposure, on the CNB bullets. As an aside, it only works to a point. Can't compensate for say a Raytec RM100-10, still whites out.

[nDAlk90 0]

Why would you want to risk your baby's health? You guys must me gamblers...

Put a TDN camera and be done with it.

[shockwave199 0]

What does TDN have to do with anything?

[mike_va 0]

Or get something like a nightlight and something with sense up. I mean the kid is just sitting there do we really care about a little motion blur?

[jackburton 0]

Can IR LEDs hurt the human eye? Yes.

 

It depends on the power, how focused the light is, your distance from it and duration of exposure.

 

The major problem with infrared light is you can't see it, your eyes have no reaction to it until the damage has been done and then you feel a painful sensation and your vision is blurry. That is a very dangerous thing indeed.

 

How do I know this? It just happened to me last night. I used my Foscam 8910w to watch me at night to observe my sleep apnea. This was at a range of about 5 feet. It was centered more on my stomach than directly at my eyes, but my eyes still received peripheral light, which was enough to damage my eye. My right eye was more exposed to the light as my left side was on the pillow.

 

Since I recorded it I know exactly how long and how it looked. Luckily my body woke itself up because it knew something was wrong. This is with my eyelids closed the whole time, which apparently doesn't stop the light from damaging the eyes. Total time facing the light was approximately 110 minutes, at about 5 feet, with eyelids closed the whole time.

 

When I woke up my right eye was itching and vision was blurry. I just thought it was sleep in my eye or it's irritated. No amount of blinking or rubbing would clear it up. I then washed it with water. It didn't help. I then flushed my eye with water directly using a soft stream from the shower head. My vision was still blurry in my right eye. I held my hand over my right eye, left-eye vision was focused. Held my hand over my left eye and my right-eye vision was blurry and double. Normally even with something in your eye your vision isn't blurry just obscured wherever the debris is. Then I thought it must be the IR light.

 

Now I had never read anything about IR light from an indoor cam being dangerous and there are no warnings on the box or documentation at all about it. But it is a very dangerous thing and after my experience I wouldn't advise using a camera with IR as a monitor pointing on anyone while they sleep. Use normal low light and a good camera that can see in low light.

 

It's not worth taking a chance at losing vision or partial vision with IR, especially with a baby that can't tell you what is wrong. I'm depressed and upset about the whole experience. I'm still recovering from the damage and my vision in my right eye has returned to near normal, not blurry, double-vision like it was. Both of my eyes are strained and have a dull pain in the back. I hate to think about what would have happened if I had slept all night like that.

[Overthinker 0]

I would certainly stay way from IR for babies. I have read the Osram eye hazard PDF and although it is a good attempt it fails to include important factors such as a babies iris size and the effects of heat production by chemical reduction. A 7mm iris size is average for a dark adapted adult eye. A baby and young children can have iris diameters of over 9 mm when dark adapted. This change in iris diameter nearly doubles the energy over what an adult would receive.

 

Your retina is very sensitive to heat. We have all felt the cringe of pain when our eyes that are used to the dark are suddenly exposed to light. What we are actually feeling is the heat resulting from the reaction of accumulated rhodopsin being chemically reduced from the light exposure. And although rhodopsin peaks in sensitivity to light in the blue/green part of the spectrum it is still photo reactive all the way out to the near infrared. Why doesn't the sidewalk on a hot summer day burn our retinas? Because the hot sidewalk radiates at a wavelength greater than 8 microns. More than ten times longer in wavelength than the IR used in "night vision" cameras. At 8 microns and above your corneas are about as transparent as concrete.

 

So when you consider that young children produce much more rhodopsin than adults, have larger iris sizes, tend to stare at bright or shiny objects for long periods, and are unable to articulate what is happening to them, directly visible night vision IR sources are inappropriate for children.