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cctvqueen, March 4, 2006 in General Digital Discussion
kandcorp - would it be possible to see larger versions of those images? (me being nosy ) and also what cams are those ?
looks like some mace cams?
mace? dont think ive heard of those in the uk unless im going mad. good cams? looks like nice images from what i can see
Here are some bigger shots. Keep in mind recording is in 352x240 and the image quality is set almost to the lowest due to the cheap PC setup. Yes Rory, I guess you could call it a Mace Cam. They have the same camera (Cam57FHI). Oh, the cams are 1/3" Sony 420TVL:
They are a big OEM CCTV company based out of Florida. They have some decent cameras for decent prices. More DIY type stuff.
As far as the images they look pretty good considering the DVR setup. Probably would look better at higher resolution and image quality settings. for the money not bad at all.
hurts my poor eyes
reminds me of a colleagues install down here, he did all 14 wendies with eclipse CCTV's cheapest cameras ... i just couldnt look at them anymore .. i felt so depressed ..
thanks for the responce
i just couldnt look at them anymore .. i felt so depressed ..
I know what you mean . But, if your on a budget and it's between these and some monitor powered RJ-11 Cameras from Sam's Club or Costco...I would choose these. There not as bad as I have seen before. Hey, at least there not using a cmos 140TVL sensor .
Seems like your way behind in your knowledge of some units. Sanyo's "buffer time" of retrieved video was an issue over 2 years ago. They have since changed their software and there is no more then 2 seconds buffer time to retrieve any stored video. The "Atari" system that you claim is installed in more casinos then almost any other DVR manufacturer in the country. I have installed almost 1,000 of their units myself and have had a TOTAL of only 4 come back in 14 months with hard drive failures.
I have installed enterprise systems as well, but we are talking about 2 totally different systems. One of the main obstacles in Las Vegas is the "8-hour repair time" regulation which states ANY failure of a digital surveillance system must be repaired within 8 hours. Many of the casinos simply do not have a staff that is technically capable of repairing a higher-end system, let alone do it in 8 hours.
Sanyo's casino DVR system is indeed a "transition technology" in the gaming market. It allows the casinos to exit the tape recorder world and enter the digital arena at a low cost that will pay for itself within a matter of a couple of years.
Thank you SPYMAN99 and KANDDCORP for your feedback. I've never heard of the ICR "Pro Series" dvr but judging from your posted pics-- Not too shabby of a picture for a lower end casino job.Is there a website I can check out? As JoeB had mentioned, every casino is "crying poor" when it comes to going digital. However a good selling point-- "The money they will save from T-160 tapes, manpower, time lost reviewing footage, and constantly fixing belts, heads, exc...." Will pay for itself within 2 years. Guarentee it. I try convincing my techs not to compromise quality for the buck. It will only backfire and end up causing u more $$ and headaches. Some listen, some don't
Sanyo DSRM810 single channel casino dvr --- but playback is very grainy. ...
Maybe she is referring to the playback through the sanyo PC review software which is very grainy and pixelated. Also to get good playback from the DVR you will have to set the settings at high or super to get a decent image, then you will need to upgrade to a large HDD for the 7 day minimum requirement. Forget about picture quality on the Quad DSR-m814 at any setting. just my opinion.
The Sanyo DVR is a great product that is very cost effective, and with a decent size HDD (300GB+) can capture and playback excellent quality video.
you guys should see what a sanyo digital dlt4800 time lapse can do. the picture is 520 tvl but searching to find an event is laborious at best. i have heard from the local adi guy here in the pacific northwest that the ge symdec -4 is [D-1 four channels w/ audio per unit] really popular in the local casinos. but yea they are small local indian casinos. [the units are not costly, cant say how much you know] so you could stack them up.
Just my 2 cents, I don't mean to offend any either. Most of thesa boxes you all are talking about aren't enterprize style boxes. Would you not want an enterprise type solution in a casino? Being able to set them up in a single or multiple locations and view live image at 30 fps and pull archives from one location?
My two cents:
You will probably find yourself having to go PC Windows based, especially if high quality evidence sharing is important
I would have to disagree with this statement, the reason that most casino's use single channel Sanyo devices is for several reasons, firstly they are MPEG2, quite obviously this is high quality recording, the second is that a Casino can not afford to have a bank of cameras fail at one time, they need the ability to swap out a single box at any time and that way if a HDD fails then they can simply swap the box and only one camera goes down. I have never seen the Sany box be grainy on display and the third reason it is used is that the Sany box actually has been written with the correct ASCI codes to allow for matrix integration, the true fact is that the operator needs a Matrix based system as the front end and then the DVR component afterwoods, you can program the Sany's to work with the analogue matrix gear so that the operation is seamless, IE a single keyboard or satelite keyboards can control the Sany functions while still doing the standard Matrix operations.
Keep in mind that most Casino's do not close, and staff turnover can be an issue, retraining staff and considering downtime for training is of a major concern with Casino owners, therefore keeping any old anologue system as a front end and integrating DVR recording behind it is a key element, yes this means that time has to be taken to program the commands needed to access the DVR componentry is an investment that is heavy but fully worth while.
Using a network client is not really an option for live viewing and can only be used as the back end of the system.
If you were designing from scratch then you would be better to go IP for several reasons:
You do not need to run as many cables for one... you can also then use webservers to encode the data and decode it at the other end so that it retains analogue, also webservers can do very large resolutions and can stream in both MPEG4 for recording and MPEG2 for live viewing, casino's chose the Sany becasue it was MPEG2 and 25FPS this is why pc's are not used, try fitting 32 cams on MPEG2 at full resolution and having integration and redundancy.
The other reason for servers is that you can link them with an input so that the card operator can press a button and can go back 30 seconds, so imagine.
A operator has an argumant about a card deal, they use a two way to tell security operator, the operator tells them to press button, the camera playback is macro'd to play back last 30-60 seconds, it is also (on button push) directed to the large central screen for high definition (this is done by IP Mapping on closed circuit relay...sending to a different encoder) then the operator can look at detail and even direct it to a monitor ot the gaming floor operators office if need be. the matrix commands can speak to the webserving device so that if more detail is needed (digital zoom, longer data, ffwd rewind etc)
Having the matrix speak the same language as the operating devices is critical and is why as was quoted "manufactorers are in bed with casino's" not quite what everyone thinks...the true fact is they have to be to program such a complex solution, therefore there is a need to sustain the existing infrastructure and therefore a need to keep constant contact with the manufactorer.
It would all be simple if you were to start from scratch but you can not do this nine times out of ten.
The biggest problem is that Casino's really want 25fps in Mpeg2 and very few standalones will have this feature certainly not the Bosch Divar, they can not afford to block them together in case they loose 16 cameras at once (perimeter is fine but not at card tables) so they are stuck with single ch units, the only way to control them is through a front end matrix and it has to be as easy to use as what they had before or in most cases...exactly the same.
The only option for change is to have a fully networked system with either IP cams or servers and this lets them keep a lot of their existing infrastructure and save on costs and space, so a NVR for recording and a NVV forviewing and a Matrix for front end control.
Okay ... i know I can help you there .. . well actually I posted on this forum already how to set up a PC Windows based DVR so it is as stable as can be (for windows). If you need a link to the thread, please just ask.
Rory, Please let me have the link. I have installed a lot of PC systems without any problems (GV). But it would be awesome to know more about the path to stability
I don't know if this would fit what you are looking for but it does 30 fps recording per camera and is MPEG4. I think there are more and more standalones that will work in some of the lower cost applications for casino's.
who is the manufacturer of that dvr?
Check out the Dallmeier NVR system. 1-for-1 recording in an enterprise-level system. It uses blade chassis and each blade records one camera. All the basic advantages of the Sanyo system.
CCTVQueen, by the way, SSI is a Dallmeier vendor.
A rack mount 19" antec case with 480w True power supply
Plenty of air flow- 2 x 120mm fans or 6 x 80mm
Asus * MB mid range is good
Corsair (twinx) ram min 1gb ( go to 2gb)
decent vga card or you can go PCIe now with the gv1480 pci
UPS- run a line interactive ups and install the software for shutdown,
use Sata drives- I use the seagate 500gb at the moment
Install the OS (XP and GEO) on a 80gb drive
this way the footage is not being written to the same drive as the OS
RAID your hdd's if you feel the need.
Run a pc cycle disc for 24hrs
Run in geovision for 24 hrs
DO NOT SKIMP ON A PC BASED DVR AND YOU WILL * WIN *
*wow you have a decent DVR
So some of you would say that Geovision is good enough for a casino? Do any casinos actually use geo?
Wouldn't suggest to go for GEO, if the casino wants to play a safe bet.
The requirements for digital recording in a casino are far beyond the capabilities of some of the DVRs suggested. Most casinos wouldn't care what codec is used as long as the system can record in at least 4CIF or D1 resolution. Also, casinos can have as many as 2000(+) cameras. That's a lot of inputs compared to other applications.
The bit rate and frame rate must be adjustable on each input so that critical cameras (table games, WAP slot machines and cash counting operations) can be recorded at very high quality while less important cameras don't take up too much disk space. Motion JPEG is rarely used due to its storage requirements.
Observers must be able to access any camera's recordings quickly and easily with little or no latency to be able to instantaneously review the data. Retention times vary from casino to casino. The minimum retention time of live recordings is usually 7 to 30 days. This requires a lot of hard disk space. It is not uncommon for larger casinos to have 250 to 500 TB (terrabytes) or more storage of camera recordings.
There needs to be a simple method to cut and save clips for evidence. The best systems utilize a file server and attached RAID storage for long-term evidence storage with tape, WORM or CD/DVD for off-site backup. After a few years there may be many TB of evidence stored that needs to be easily accessible but secure.
The system must be simple to learn and use due to employee turnover. The GUI must be simple and uncluttered for the same reason. Configuration settings should be transparent to users because a casino can't afford to have non-technical people messing with them. Operators should not be able to stop recording of any camera for obvious reasons.
I can't picture any casino using computers with capture cards. Most casino CCTV technicians don't have the knowledge to build, maintain and operate a system with that complexity and those types of systems are not usually stable enough for 7/24/365 operation.
Latency is a major problem with some systems, including the Sanyo DSR-M series. Although Sanyo has improved their software, it still has far more latency than many Enterprise systems. The Sanyos may be a good choice for smaller casinos but their limitations are somewhat crippling. They still take a long time buffering inputs and switching from DVR to DVR and the 4-DVR limitation for simultaneous playback is a nuisance.
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